Film Trope: Cops and Robbers Dialectic

[Jimmie Higgins]

What do people think of the (overused imo) trope of cops and robbers being basically two sides of the same coin or otherwise parts of some whole. Detectives who become obsessed with obsessive serieal killers; cops that "break the rules" and robbers with a code of honor; Batman and the Joker. This relationship seems to be in a lot of crime movies and it annoys me on some level I can't really put my finger on - maybe just because I think it's a cliche. Maybe it annoys me because it tends to reduce a social phenomena to some kind of induvidual personality type of "thrill seekers". I don't know, maybe it's deeper than I think and I'm just missing something or coming at it from the wrong angle.

Thoughts on this trope or other common themes in this genre?

Does this dynamic exist in other genres? I don't think "cowboy and indian" movies had the same thing (because native americans seem to usually be either 1-dimensionally romanticized or villainized). War movies seem to have a different dynamic: "Oh we're all human on both sides of the war" or alternately "Oh we're both brutal and evil because we're humans on both sides of the war".

Personally I like the "monster/monster creator dialectic" trope like in Frankenstein much more.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Most "cops and robbers" shows I see on TV (like CSI, L&O, NCIS, and all of their incarnations) feature the "good guys" as maybe quirky but utterly dedicated to their craft, real self-righteous bureaucrats with guns, and the "bad guys" as conniving, predominantly narcissistic, very unlikable villains, who at some point in the show, after they have him/her dead to rights or are just bluffing, issues some kind of sneering confession.

As far as genuinely interesting moral tales, full of ambiguity and uncertainty and heroes with significant flaws, there really isn't much, although of course there are other exceptions one could name like The Wire or The Shield.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I haven't seen the Shield, but the Wire was fantastic and I think in part it was because it wasn't "crime" in isolation but a much more wholistic view of social disfunction where people were often driven to make choices based on the circumstances handed to them, not some abstract internal drive. Within the (seemingly) possible options people could do X, Y, or Z if they want to become mayor or if they want to try and resolve street violence or if they want to survive on the street.

Maybe the reason I find this trope hollow is that it views things from a professionals perspective of the world: the professional con who is his/her job and therefore is united with the professional detective who is his/her job. In the Wire there were obsessed professionals but they were people dealing with circumstances handed to them first and their obession was sometimes presented as a sort of personal disfunction (aside from maybe the newspaper reproters who were sketched a little thiner IMO). The main white cop was obessed with his job and it was more associated with his alcoholism than with a law and order dialectic.

[blake 3:17]

@JH -- I think there is a basic truth to cops not being far from criminals, and there's constant blurs in real life. I don't much television, but when I do it's mostly cop shows, and it gets on my nerves at how enlightened and liberal they all seem to be.

I kind of like stoopid action movies where the good guys are good because they're good, and the bad guys are bad because they're bad, and there's no actual moral difference or psychological explanation.

But I like characters who are blank slates - empty signfiers and just get the story moving.

What do you think of firefighter arsonists?

[Firebrand]

Cop shows are my guilty pleasure, but I prefer the more lighthearted ones like psych and white collar, because to be honest I don't find it that believable that people can be that grim all the time.

[Jimmie Higgins]

What do you think of firefighter arsonists?I think that's the funniest thing I've read all day:laugh:


Cop shows are my guilty pleasure, but I prefer the more lighthearted ones like psych and white collar, because to be honest I don't find it that believable that people can be that grim all the time. Oh definately. I enjoy detective stories and the problem-solving/mystery aspects of some cop stories and movies.