Ski North Korea!

[Popular Front of Judea]

Juche on skis!


The secretary general of North Korea's ski association views the sprawling alpine landscape before him with unabashed pride. Facing a strong, cold wind, he points to a dip in the rugged, tree-covered mountains and says the sunrise is a sight of unmatched beauty, worthy of the nation's supreme leader, Kim Jong-un.

This is the Masik Pass ski resort, North Korea's latest megaproject and the product of 10 months of furious labour intended to show that the country, so often derided for its poverty and isolation, is as civilised and culturally advanced as any other.

The complex of ski runs, resort chalets and sleigh rides will open formally on Thursday, though late last month the main hotels appeared to be little more than shells, potholes filled the access roads and foundations were still being dug for secondary buildings.

Who will ski here? Perhaps Kim Jong-un, who reportedly enjoyed the sport as a teenager studying in Switzerland. By the estimate of the ski official, Kim Tae-yong, there are only about 5,500 North Korean skiers in this country of 24 million – a skiing population of 0.02%.

Even so, as he sweeps his hand over the scene, the official displays no doubt that what his country really needs right now is a multimillion-dollar ski resort in the secluded depths of North Korea's east coast. Kim bristles at the suggestion Masik will be a playground for the nation's elite and a trickle of eccentric tourists. This, he says, is his country at work. It is proof of the great love of the great leader.

...


Last month, the Swiss government blocked plans for a company to sell North Korea $7.7m-worth (£4.8m) of lifts and cable car equipment because of new sanctions barring the sale of luxury goods to the North. Austrian and French ski-lift manufacturers also have reportedly said no.

North Korea's state-run media have called the Swiss decision a "serious human rights abuse that politicises sports and discriminates against the Koreans". Kim called it "a pity", but said Masik Pass would have three functioning lifts this year.

"We can make nuclear weapons and rockets," he said. "We can build a ski lift."

North Korea's luxury ski resort opens for business | Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/07/north-korea-ski-resort-masik-pass/print)

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Yes a ski resort is a totally better investment for a country beset by hunger than agricultural equipment. I guess it means that their government will have access to dollars from rich tourists from places like China, Japan and Russia.

[argeiphontes]

Does the North Korean Ski Patrol just shoot you if you fall?

[Delenda Carthago]

Yes a ski resort is a totally better investment for a country beset by hunger than agricultural equipment. I guess it means that their government will have access to dollars from rich tourists from places like China, Japan and Russia.
So, what you are saying is, that there is a country that has economical problems, but they shouldnt invest on something that can make an income for them. I see.

[DROSL]

looks like the leaders are just plain "mentally challenged" . Someone should teach them how to operate a socialist country.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

This is the Masik Pass ski resort, North Korea's latest megaproject and the product of 10 months of furious labour intended to show that the country, so often derided for its poverty and isolation, is as civilised and culturally advanced as any other.
Nothing says "civilised and culturally advanced" quite like skiing. :lol:

[argeiphontes]

I'm a little suspicious about how they managed to have 5,500 skiers before having a ski resort for them to ski at. It must just be propaganda... After all, it's not like they'd have a special class of people who could afford ski vacations (and be granted the exit visas), while others toiled away in labor camps, is it?

[Leftsolidarity]

looks like the leaders are just plain retarded. Someone should teach them how to operate a socialist country.

Verbal warning for prejudiced language.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

So, what you are saying is, that there is a country that has economical problems, but they shouldnt invest on something that can make an income for them. I see.

I'm saying it takes a bourgeois mindset and a bourgeois set of priorities to invest scarce resources in a ski resort when food production, housing and other social services remains incredibly spotty. One of the economic problems of the DPRK is its socially and economically alienated political leadership investing in vanity projects when basic infrastructure goes without important consideration.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I'm a little suspicious about how they managed to have 5,500 skiers before having a ski resort for them to ski at. It must just be propaganda... After all, it's not like they'd have a special class of people who could afford ski vacations (and be granted the exit visas), while others toiled away in labor camps, is it?

The DPRK probably has plenty of ski opportunities, I'd imagine. It's somewhat mountainous, isn't it? When I grew up I learned how to snowboard on surrounding slopes and never went to any sort of resort...conditions had to be right for it though. (I guess you were being sarcastic though...)

[argeiphontes]

(I guess you were being sarcastic though...)

I figured this thread would be full of jokes by now. But people skiing in North Korea isn't a joke. Some people are skiing while others are kept as slave labor.

I'd hate to be sentenced to 20 years of rental boot disinfection for pointing out that even Fearless Leader gasped at the prices in the lodge. Now that's a joke--it's so hard to limit myself to just one ;)

[Chinese]

looks like the leaders are just plain retarded. Someone should teach them how to operate a socialist country.

You are just plain retarded. Why not build ski Korea enrich people's cultural life?

If North Korea does not build. Imperialist lackeys will bark: the North Korean government do something. Down with the North Korean government!

If North Korea building. Imperialist lackeys will bark: North Korea's facilities only rich use. Down with the North Korean government!

[Tim Cornelis]

So, what you are saying is, that there is a country that has economical problems, but they shouldnt invest on something that can make an income for them. I see.

You are so obviously blindsided by your warped ideology. Had a Western or African government done something similar you'd rightly condemn it, but now that a nominally socialist state has done so you come to its defence. It's become part of your standard routine of apologism for the most vile and disgustingly oppressive and exploitative regimes as long as they claim some (superficial) allegiance to socialism.
Invest money in something to generate income for the capitalist elite while letting the working class live in dire poverty. That's the reality.


You are just plain retarded. Why not build ski Korea enrich people's cultural life?

If North Korea does not build. Imperialist lackeys will bark: the North Korean government do something. Down with the North Korean government!

If North Korea building. Imperialist lackeys will bark: North Korea's facilities only rich use. Down with the North Korean government!

Enrich the elite's cultural life while depriving the working class over essential means of life. You're an enemy of emancipation and liberation.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

You are just plain retarded. Why not build ski Korea enrich people's cultural life?

If North Korea does not build. Imperialist lackeys will bark: the North Korean government do something. Down with the North Korean government!

If North Korea building. Imperialist lackeys will bark: North Korea's facilities only rich use. Down with the North Korean government!

The DPRK should build, but it shouldn't start with luxury entertainment. It should start with the kind of basic necessities which most people can access and need, which is what their government has historically failed to do. This kind of investment is just a further indicator that their government really is just a brutally enforced and alienated elite.

[StalinBad]

The DPRK should build, but it shouldn't start with luxury entertainment. It should start with the kind of basic necessities which most people can access and need, which is what their government has historically failed to do. This kind of investment is just a further indicator that their government really is just a brutally enforced and alienated elite.

This. North Korea is a shame to Communism, I think it's claim to be a Socialist nation is illegitimate.

[Delenda Carthago]

I'm saying it takes a bourgeois mindset and a bourgeois set of priorities to invest scarce resources in a ski resort when food production, housing and other social services remains incredibly spotty. One of the economic problems of the DPRK is its socially and economically alienated political leadership investing in vanity projects when basic infrastructure goes without important consideration.
Yes I understood the first time. And I am saying that you lack on knowledge on both DPRK and basic economical principles.

As far as the DPRK knowledge, from what I have searched, it is far from the idea you have on your mind. We are talkin about a country that produces its own high end technology- from nuclears to palmtops and cellphones to medical equipment. And we are talkin about the only country that made both USA and China to back down. Single handidly. Doesnt that tell you something?

As far as the economy goes, the article says that the ski center will bring tourists. Ie, it will produce income for the country. Ie, they will invest X and will get back for example 5X. How is that "vanity project"?

[Delenda Carthago]

Just to have a clearer view on the subject. (http://www.revleft.com/vb/north-korea-t177611/index.html?p=2584276#post2584276)

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Yes I understood the first time. And I am saying that you lack on knowledge on both DPRK and basic economical principles.

As far as the DPRK knowledge, from what I have searched, it is far from the idea you have on your mind. We are talkin about a country that produces its own high end technology- from nuclears to palmtops and cellphones to medical equipment. And we are talkin about the only country that made both USA and China to back down. Single handidly. Doesnt that tell you something?


Err, you do know that the DPRK has suffered a couple of mass famines after the fall of the USSR, right? Yes its factories might produce some advanced goods here and there (I wonder if enough to make these goods actually accessible) but the level of consumption for basic goods for many of the workers is incredibly low. The country can't even power itself at night:

http://cdn.theatlanticcities.com/img/upload/2012/12/18/north_korea_satellite_nasa_lights_KEYED/largest.JPG

This is why it constantly needs to get food aid from the UN to feed its population. It's also why their country took years to finish their new giant hotel in Pyongyang, which still isn't complete - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryugyong_Hotel - a project which is incidentally also a vanity project (and a bourgeois one at that too - it was proposed that it would have casinos and other bourgeois luxuries)



As far as the economy goes, the article says that the ski center will bring tourists. Ie, it will produce income for the country. Ie, they will invest X and will get back for example 5X. How is that "vanity project"?Yes it will obviously bring money. And that money won't be controlled by the workers of the country but by the bureaucrats. These kinds of projects become ripe opportunities for corruption in countries with less-than-transparent bureaucracies like North Korea.

It's a vanity project because there's no reliable way of knowing beforehand how profitable it will actually be (it may take years to pay off), it is a good which will mainly be used by wealthier foreigners and only a handful of local people, and because it ignores the need to produce goods that everyday North Koreans need more immediately. A ski resort is a luxury being built by a country that hasn't even figured out how to provide its necessities.

[Leftsolidarity]

You are just plain retarded. Why not build ski Korea enrich people's cultural life?

If North Korea does not build. Imperialist lackeys will bark: the North Korean government do something. Down with the North Korean government!

If North Korea building. Imperialist lackeys will bark: North Korea's facilities only rich use. Down with the North Korean government!

Verbal warning for prejudiced language.

I don't know why you would think that the rules don't apply to you when you just saw that DROSL received a warning for the same thing you just said.

[Delenda Carthago]

Err, you do know that the DPRK has suffered a couple of mass famines after the fall of the USSR, right?


Err, I do know that. You know why this happened? You know if it is still happening or not and if not why not?


Yes its factories might produce some advanced goods here and there

Yeah... Like satelites and nuclear power.


but the level of consumption for basic goods for many of the workers is incredibly low.

Speak with facts.


The country can't even power itself at night:

You are wrong mr. Beck. DPRK is a nuclear power nowdays and the problems it USED TO have with electricity, are a thing of the past.:rolleyes:






Yes it will obviously bring money. And that money won't be controlled by the workers of the country but by the bureaucrats.

Do you know that, or you just assuming it? Because I would love some facts about that issue. I keep asking people who seem as surtain as you, but for some reason I dont seem to get an answer.




It's a vanity project because there's no reliable way of knowing beforehand how profitable it will actually be (it may take years to pay off)

GTFO! They dont? While investments in general I assume are assured somehow?


A ski resort is a luxury being built by a country that hasn't even figured out how to provide its necessities.


So OK, let me ask this. If they are a poor country that cannot provide its necessities, how do you propose they generate income to do so? You are against them using tourism for that, obviously. You are not a big fan of their industrial achievements. What then?

[DROSL]

Verbal warning for prejudiced language.

You make me feel like we're in NK. Pardon me, Imperator!

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

You are wrong mr. Beck. DPRK is a nuclear power nowdays and the problems it USED TO have with electricity, are a thing of the past.:rolleyes:


Really? I wasn't aware that they have managed to build a new nuclear power station. I know they had a project going for a while to build one, but the project was cancelled in 2003 or something. They also have this very old experimental reactor from the 1950's they got from the Soviets, but apart from producing plutonium it has scarcely any power generation capacity.

Pyongyang's two major coal-fired power stations are in need of renovation, and there are intermittently shortages of coal. Same goes for almost all other power stations in the country. Not sure about the state of those hydroelectric facilities that exist, but they are not enough to compensate. Electricity shortages limit speeds of electric trains to 65km/h even where track quality allows higher in order to conserve electricity and keep demand down.

So, where is this new power station? I seriously haven't heard about it.

[DROSL]

I think skying requires not dying of hunger halfway down the mountain. Maybe it's just me...

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Err, I do know that. You know why this happened? You know if it is still happening or not and if not why not?


It happened initially because of floods, but these food problems have gone on since (hence the need to obtain food aid every few years). If they invested more in agriculture, even if those disasters still occur, they would have enough of a surplus to survive losing much of their production.



Yeah... Like satelites and nuclear power.


As Takayuki pointed out, their nuclear program focuses on weapons production, not power. If they invested more money on nuclear power, their economy would be better than it is (albeit with the obvious risks associated with nuclear power plants that we've seen in the US, Ukraine and Japan).

As for satellites, while cell phone reception is nice, I'd take food security over that any day of the week.



Speak with facts.


The famines and the widespread malnutrition show that (although the DPRK is generally a hard place to get good facts about because it's closed off)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jun/12/north-korean-children-malnutrition-un


Millions of North Korean children suffering from malnutrition, says UN

Nearly a third of children under five show signs of stunted development because of food scarcity, according to agency



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Associated Press in Pyongyang
theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/), Tuesday 12 June 2012 05.52 EDT

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/6/12/1339494626945/North-Koreans-farming-008.jpg North Koreans work in a field on the outskirts of Pyongyang. A recent shortage of rainfall has increased fears over food supply. Photograph: Ng Han Guan/AP

Millions of North Korean children are not getting the food, medicine or healthcare they need to develop physically or mentally, leaving many stunted and malnourished, the United Nations (http://www.theguardian.com/world/unitednations) has said.
Nearly a third of children under five show signs of stunting, particularly in rural areas where food is scarce, and chronic diarrhoea due to a lack of clean water, sanitation and electricity has become the leading cause of death among children, the agency said. Hospitals are spotless but bare; few have running water or power, and drugs and medicine are in short supply, the UN said in a detailed update on the humanitarian situation in North Korea (http://www.theguardian.com/world/north-korea).
"I've seen babies … who should have been sitting up who were not sitting up, and can hardly hold a baby bottle," Jerome Sauvage, the UN's Pyongyang-based resident co-ordinator for North Korea, said in Beijing before presenting the report to donors.
The report paints a horrific picture of deprivation in the countryside, not often seen by outsiders, who are usually not allowed to travel beyond the relatively prosperous Pyongyang, where cherubic children are hand-picked to attend government celebrations and a middle-class with a taste for good food have the means to eat out.
Sauvage's report provides not only further evidence of North Korea's inability to feed its people, but also bolsters critics who say the government should be spending on food security instead of building up its military, testing rockets and pursuing a nuclear programme denounced by the UN, the US and South Korea.
The UN called for $198m in donations for 2012 – mostly to help feed the hungry.
The appeal comes at a delicate time for North Korea, which has sought to project an image of stability and unity during the transition to power of the young leader, Kim Jong-un.
Yet the government has begun to publicly acknowledge a severe shortage of food for the first time in years.
In late May, in an unusual admission of a food problem by a high-ranking official, North Korea's premier, Choe Yong-rim, urged farmers to do their part in alleviating the food shortage, according to the state-run Korean Central News Agency (KCNA).
Worries of another drought have also been raised by a reported shortfall of rain this spring in some areas, which will likely lead to reduced harvest in the fall. The apparent effects of the drought were witnessed by the Associated Press in May in South Phyongan province.
"I have been working at the farm for more than 30 years, but I have never experienced this kind of severe drought," An Song-min, a farmer at the Tokhae Co-operative Farm in the Nampho area, told the AP as he stood in parched fields where the dirt crumbled through his fingers.
North Korea does not produce enough food to feed its 24 million people, and relies on limited purchases of food as well as outside donations to make up the shortfall. The country suffered a famine in the mid and late 1990s, the UN's Food and Agriculture Organisation and the World Food Programme said in a special report late last year.
About 16 million North Koreans – two-thirds of the country – depend on twice-monthly government rations, the UN report said. There are no signs the government will undertake the long-term structural reforms needed to spur economic growth, it said.
Rations usually consist of barley, maize or rice, at best, while many children are growing up without eating any protein, Sauvage said. He said malnutrition (http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/malnutrition) over a generation could have a severe effect on physical growth, cognitive capacity and the ability to learn.
The land in the mountainous north is largely unsuitable for farming, and deforestation and outmoded agricultural techniques – as well as limited fuel and electricity – mean farms are vulnerable to the natural disasters North Korea is prone to, including flooding, drought and harsh, cold winters, the UN report said.
Provinces in the southern "cereal bowl" produce most of the country's grains, but the food does not always reach the rugged far north-eastern provinces, the report said. A crop assessment in October 2011 indicated that 3 million people would need outside food help in 2012.
But many donor countries remain sceptical whether food aid reaches the hungry or is diverted to the nation's powerful elite or million-strong military.
The World Food Programme issued a global appeal for $218m in emergency food aid in 2011, saying a quarter of North Korea's population needed foreign food handouts to keep from going hungry. It received only $85m.
South Korea had been one of North Korea's biggest benefactors until the conservative president, Lee Myung-bak, took office in 2008, ending unconditional aid by linking it to progress on North Korea's nuclear disarmament process.
Seoul has no immediate plans to resume massive direct food and fertiliser aid to North Korea, the South Korean unification ministry spokeswoman Park Soo-jin said on Tuesday.
A North Korean long-range rocket launch in April also scuttled a deal with the US that would have sent 240,000 metric tons of food aid in exchange for a moratorium on nuclear and missile tests.
Sauvage noted a welcome focus on agriculture, including crop rotation and organic farming, in this year's joint New Year editorial laying out the government's policies for 2012.
He noted that North Korea, proud of its free healthcare system, ran spotlessly clean hospitals but with limited facilities.
"The healthcare system is on paper quite sophisticated. The proportion of doctors per household is very high," Sauvage said. "Unfortunately, there's not a lot in the doctor's toolkit."
"You go and visit a hospital in winter and it will not be heated. Never," he said. "There will most likely be no water. There will likely be no medicine other than the medicine that agencies are delivering.
"They have shown us orphanages, kindergartens and hospitals, and I've been able myself to see children who I was told were nine years old but had physical signs that they were much older than nine, probably 13 or 14 years old, and were evidently undernourished," he said.
Despite the dire conditions, North Korea remains defiant.
The KCNA recently accused the west of manipulating food prices as a form of imperialism, and urged North Koreans to become self-sufficient before turning to outside help.
"Dry bread at home is better than roast meat abroad," a KCNA editorial said.





You are wrong mr. Beck. DPRK is a nuclear power nowdays and the problems it USED TO have with electricity, are a thing of the past.:rolleyes:


Do you have any actual evidence of this? I've seen photos from 2012 with the only few lights being visible in Pyongyang.



Do you know that, or you just assuming it? Because I would love some facts about that issue. I keep asking people who seem as surtain as you, but for some reason I dont seem to get an answer.

The DPRK doesn't exactly publish transparent economic data or welcome outside analysis.



GTFO! They dont? While investments in general I assume are assured somehow?

If you're a capitalist, then no not every investment is assured to bring financial return. If you're a socialist, then investing in agriculture is generally a safe way to bring social benefit when your country suffers from malnourishment and food shortages.



So OK, let me ask this. If they are a poor country that cannot provide its necessities, how do you propose they generate income to do so? You are against them using tourism for that, obviously. You are not a big fan of their industrial achievements. What then?

If they have money to buy a chairlift, they have money to pay for tractors. The problem is their distribution of resources as much as it is their scarcity.

[Hrafn]

You are wrong mr. Beck. DPRK is a nuclear power nowdays and the problems it USED TO have with electricity, are a thing of the past.:rolleyes:

I'd like to address this.

During my visit to the DPRK earlier this year, there clearly was problems. The powercuts were constant - we were mainly outside/going by bus, so we must've missed a lot of them, but every time we went inside for more than a few minutes (save for the hotel, which would seem to have its own generators) the power would cut for quite some time. Repeatedly.

Pyongyang's city centre lights up somewhat well during the evening, but by no means as much as any other modern city. After about 22:00 or so, the only noticeable lights were in the hotel (which has a view over the entire city centre) and the Tower of the Juche Idea's flame.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

I'm a little surprised that they were even going to build ski resorts.

Aren't the mountains of NK supposed to be 'untouchable and celestial' figures in the Kim family personality cult mythology they force-feed to the population?

[Japan]

Yes a ski resort is a totally better investment for a country beset by hunger than agricultural equipment. I guess it means that their government will have access to dollars from rich tourists from places like China, Japan and Russia.
North Korea's trying to build up their tourism industry to get some more $$$