Marxist Parties in the US.

[RedGuevara]

I have been scouring around RL for parties. I hear the SPUSA panders to the Democratic party so that's out of the question. I look into the CPUSA but here the gentleman who runs the CPUSA affairs is a moron. I've looked into the IWW. And I've looked around but finding a Marxist focused group is becoming a difficult task.

I wanted to know what parties are not just bourgeoisie hiding in scarlet clothing. I would like to find a legitimate group to interact with.

(Hope this would be the right forum for this kind of topic.)

[Red_Banner]

From the looks, the IWW and Workers World seem ok.

I am considering SPUSA because although they are not ideal, they have some members and organisation in my area.

[Yuppie Grinder]

The IWW is role-playing troupe.

[Fourth Internationalist]

I don't know what tendency you are, but if you're interested, you should check out the League for a Revolutionary Party - Communist Organization for the Fourth International (LRP-COFI) at http://lrp-cofi.org/ While technically not a party (rather, a league for a party), they are I think the most ideologically correct group. They are un"orthodox" Trotskyist and their book The Life and Death of Stalinism (http://lrp-cofi.org/book/index.html) explains much of their beliefs (book is available on their website for free as a PDF). Anyone questions about them, simply ask me and I will try to answer them as best I can.

[Remus Bleys]

I swear to God if someone says Revolutionary Communist Party or Spartacist League...

I am interested in this topic, as all parties either seem to be anti-revolution or pieces of shit.

[RedGuevara]

I sense I may have pulled the top off a boiler. But Aang I can check them out and perhaps I'll check the book out. I have no tendency as of right now but I have been reading works of Lenin, Guevara(obviously), Ho Chi Minh and Marx. I was planning on reading some of Trotsky's works as well. Stalin I won't judge as of yet because I haven't done enough research, but from what I have observed you either love him or hate him.

[Leftsolidarity]

I'm a member of Workers World Party and used to be in the SPUSA (which I highly suggest not wasting your time in). If you want to check out WWP our website is http://workers.org/ and you can also check out http://cantjailtherevolution.org/ for the blog by the youth of our party. The blog hasn't been as actively recently, though, as most of the efforts of our young folks have been in building the youth group FIST, Fight Imperialism-Stand Together, and you can check that out at http://fistyouth.org/


If you dig any of it I could send you some other links when I get the chance.

[Geiseric]

there is no workers party in the united states. there are only leftist sects, there is a big difference. ISO is closest since people will actually vote for them.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

there is no workers party in the united states. there are only leftist sects, there is a big difference. ISO is closest since people will actually vote for them.

Except for the fact that the ISO is generally abstentationist, even going as far as to oppose the Ksama Sawant campaign. Though I know that's not your point and you are otherwise correct, I just wanted to point this out.

[Leftsolidarity]

there is no workers party in the united states. there are only leftist sects, there is a big difference. ISO is closest since people will actually vote for them.

To be a worker's party you need to be in bourgeois elections?

[RedGuevara]

Thank you all for posting.:) I shall consider all options. You guys are great comrades.

[Geiseric]

To be a worker's party you need to be in bourgeois elections?

people need to vote for something you say that will effect public policy. nobody is voting for anything your group is saying, sorry, so you're not really a party. more like a club.

[sixdollarchampagne]

If a person is looking for a left-wing group that is actually doing stuff, trying to effect change, then, as I have written before, I think the IWW is the single best group that I have seen. They are utterly sincere, pro-worker, rank and file militants. In a couple of different places where I lived, when I was still in New England, I was a member of an IWW general membership branch (GMB), and that was an utterly positive experience. To me, the Wobs are more impressive than the Marxists I have encountered in the US; I think Marxism is kind of anemic in this country. (In contrast, Marxism in Latin America is quite impressive.) I think the only agenda the Wobs have, is being on the side of the workers. Of course, if it has to be a Marxist group, I guess the IWW doesn't qualify – too bad.

[Glitchcraft]

doh.

[Glitchcraft]

I would say you should look at the groups that are active in your area or as far as your willing to travel and attend some of their classes or events. Look into what they actually do as well as their theory. I would always recommend being a sympathizer for while before becoming a member.

More importantly you should decide what your personal politics are. If you strongly believe in the political overthrow of the Kims in North Korea maybe you shouldn't join the WWP. If you are strong on labor union activism you should probably steer clear of the SEP. If you despise cops and would never lend them any support you should avoid SAlt. Know that when you join a group you have to defend it's positions. You can't join the SWP and condemn black nationalism.

If your an orthodox Trot then I hope your well read because every Trot group claims to be only one that's not a capitulating group of boot-licking traitors.

Some groups have more stringent requirements to join than others. You should decide for yourself what you think is appropriate. You may not want to be in a large group that has many short term members. Or be in a small group that requires a virtual masters degree in revolutionary science to be a contributing member.

I would definitely recommend just working with a group for an extended period of time before considering joining. You can always support them by attending their events and reading their paper. Most groups don't require you to be a party member to campaign with them or sell their paper. You can work with a group for a while and by not joining you are also more able to goto other groups classes and events without the potentially adversarial associations.

Because when you get right down to it they all have massive problems and shortcomings. None of them are even close to perfect, many of them are arguably counter effective. Take time to understand them and their opposition before committing to them. Always read other groups critiques no matter who that group is and be sure your getting the full story. The only source of real criticism is from other groups even the ones more objectionable than the one your with.

[Buttress]

A new Revolutionary Communist Party will need to be formed in the US if the current RCP does not move away from its Avakian revisionism. Make it happen, guys.

[Leftsolidarity]

people need to vote for something you say that will effect public policy. nobody is voting for anything your group is saying, sorry, so you're not really a party. more like a club.

Maybe if you're a bourgeois party or believe we can elect in socialism. Being a worker's party (a revolutionary socialist one) has absolutely nothing to do with if people vote for you in bourgeois elections (and FYI, people do vote WWP when we run) or shaping bourgeois social policy.

You seem like an odd Trotskyist if you think that those are needed to be a worker's party and not just a "club". What do you think a worker's party is?

[KurtFF8]

I usually say about the same thing to everyone with this kind of question: try to find out what groups are in your area and look up what they're about and directly interact with them.

You can read all of the internet message board opinions of X or Y group you want but nothing will help you determine which organization you want to be with more than direct interaction.

There are some basic things you should know before going to a group's meeting of course, for example if you're a supporter of the Cuban revolution, stay away from the ISO. etc. but you can't know how good an organization is just from RevLeft

[Fred]

I swear to God if someone says Revolutionary Communist Party or Spartacist League...

I am interested in this topic, as all parties either seem to be anti-revolution or pieces of shit.

I'm game. The Spartacist League is the group that I have been closest too for the past 35 years or so. They are far from perfect. Obviously, a lot of people on the left hate them, mostly for correctly pointing out the shortcomings of the rest of the left. They are very serious about education and program. They are a cadre group, meaning you would have to work with them for a while to join -- you can't just send in your 5 dollar membership fee as with many other groups.

Of course, you should look around and find what seems right for you. Do some serious reading, hear differing points of view. Take your time, comrade. There is no rush.

[Geiseric]

I'm game. The Spartacist League is the group that I have been closest too for the past 35 years or so. They are far from perfect. Obviously, a lot of people on the left hate them, mostly for correctly pointing out the shortcomings of the rest of the left. They are very serious about education and program. They are a cadre group, meaning you would have to work with them for a while to join -- you can't just send in your 5 dollar membership fee as with many other groups.

Of course, you should look around and find what seems right for you. Do some serious reading, hear differing points of view. Take your time, comrade. There is no rush.

Edit: People hate them because they support NAMBLA.

[The Idler]

there is no workers party in the united states. there are only leftist sects, there is a big difference. ISO is closest since people will actually vote for them.
The OP asked for a Marxist Party not a Workers Party, there is a big difference.

[Fred]

Edit: People hate them because they support NAMBLA.

Speak for yourself, comrade. Although my guess is that your hate is multi-determined in this case. For the record, they defend NAMBLA, they don't support it. You want to talk trash against the Sparts -- start another thread.

[RedGuevara]

Yeah I want a Marxist focused group. Not alll worker groups or unions are Marxist.

[Geiseric]

The OP asked for a Marxist Party not a Workers Party, there is a big difference.

Not really, marxists and the working class's goals are one and the same.

[The Idler]

Not really, marxists and the working class's goals are one and the same.
The current working class seem pretty keen, as a goal, to re-elect non-Marxists to office and most non-Marxist parties have more workers as members than Marxist parties.

[Geiseric]

The current working class seem pretty keen, as a goal, to re-elect non-Marxists to office and most non-Marxist parties have more workers as members than Marxist parties.

That doesn't make them workers parties though. You missed the entire point, the important thing is the program and praxis which makes a workers party. Putins United Russia for example is no more a workers party than the CPUSA. They both in practice support capitalism.

[RedGuevara]

Yes this might be true that it's a common goal that they share but I would like to learn more about Marxism and not just from books. I want to interact with people that are Marxists so I can learn about the people of Marxism and their contributions. So I can learn about the world through a Marxist eye. Worker groups that aren't Marxist won't provide this education for me.

[The Idler]

That doesn't make them workers parties though. You missed the entire point, the important thing is the program and praxis which makes a workers party. Putins United Russia for example is no more a workers party than the CPUSA. They both in practice support capitalism.
So can a workers party that is not Marxist and that does not challenge capitalism, or even stands against Marxism, act in the best interests of workers?

[Leftsolidarity]

I'm pretty sure the OP is asking about info on Marxist oriented parties in the US. Not asking for ultra-sectarian Trotskyist semantics.

[DasFapital]

RCPUSA of course...:grin:

But seriously I would probably go with IWW

[The Idler]

I'm pretty sure the OP is asking about info on Marxist oriented parties in the US. Not asking for ultra-sectarian Trotskyist semantics.
Speak for yourself. Maybe Stalinism wouldn't be even more unpopular than Trotskyism if it didn't label every critic as Trotskyist. No wait, yes it would.

[Leftsolidarity]

Speak for yourself. Maybe Stalinism wouldn't be even more unpopular than Trotskyism if it didn't label every critic as Trotskyist. No wait, yes it would.

1)I wasn't speaking to you, more to the person who is a Trotskyist.
2)I would consider myself a Trotskyist. I just dislike when Trotyskyists are ridiculous as is shown here.

[The Idler]

Who? Geiseric for criticising CPUSA and Putins United Russia? I'm fed up with labelling criticism as sectarian. "Official communism" is dead my friend, I can only hope the legacy of Bolshevism goes with it.

[Leftsolidarity]

Who? Geiseric for criticising CPUSA and Putins United Russia? I'm fed up with labelling criticism as sectarian. "Official communism" is dead my friend, I can only hope the legacy of Bolshevism goes with it.

I criticize both as well. I don't really feel the need to criticize Russia when they are playing an important role with anti-imperialist positions. That's neither here nor there with this, though. I was saying that the discussion around "workers parties" and silly semantics over bourgeois elections and whatnot was sectarian. I was trying to move the discussion back to groups that the OP might be interested in based off what he was asking.

[RedGuevara]

Well I wanted to know something.. Are the IWW, or Wobblies, Stalinists? I appreciate the notion LS.

[argeiphontes]

^ They're anarcho-syndicalists. :)

[RedGuevara]

Thank you. I have to admit that I try to figure out the tendency of the groups before I reach out to them.

[Geiseric]

So can a workers party that is not Marxist and that does not challenge capitalism, or even stands against Marxism, act in the best interests of workers?

A workers party that doesn't challenge capitalism isn't a workers party, it's a bourgeois party because their interests are in neutering any attempts against capitalism.

[G4b3n]

I would recommend the IWW. While they are not Marxist or a political party, their number one concern which has not changed for over 100 years since its inception, is siding with the working class and working to organize the working class against capitalism.

[G4b3n]

^ They're anarcho-syndicalists. :)

Mainly in rhetoric, they do not identify with a specific political ideology. They are pro working class and anti-capitalist.

[The Idler]

A workers party that doesn't challenge capitalism isn't a workers party, it's a bourgeois party because their interests are in neutering any attempts against capitalism.
Your definition of a workers party doesn't work as it would include Strasserist parties.
As for Putins United Russia playing a role in anti-imperialism, this is ridiculous.