How many people/experiences contribute to ideology

[Bolshevika]

Who are the person's, experiences, etc that contribute to your ideology? I am curious because I see many non-Leninists on this board who call themselves liberal marxists.

My ideology is composed of Marxism-Leninism/experience in Paris Commune and USSR, Maoism/Chinese experience, Bolivarianism/Liberation wars in the 19th century and Republic Of Colombia, and Juche style socialism. I take the good and criticize the bad of these ideologies.

[SonofRage]

This is an interesting thread. I'm going to give a few quick links on what my influences are (I don't have time at this moment to comment more deeply):

Theorists
Daniel De Leon (http://www.marxists.org/archive/deleon/index.htm)
Eugene V. Debs (http://www.marxists.org/archive/debs/index.htm)
Murray Bookchin (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/bookchin/BookchinCW.html)
Rosa Luxemberg (http://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/index.htm)

Events
Spanish Civil War (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/spancivwar/Spanishcivilwar.html)
The Paris Commune (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/pariscommune/Pariscommunearchive.html)

[RedAnarchist]

People are - Che

Events are - the suffering of the Third World
America's greed and selfishness
The suffering of the Palestinians
The evil of the Nazis

[Y2A]

The people

John F Kennedy
Robert F Kennedy
(can't think of any more)

The Events

The failure of communist revolutions around the world.
The stupidity of the german people to give into there government and let a leader declare himself dictator without standing up for democracy.

[The Feral Underclass]

The failure of communist revolutions around the world.
The stupidity of the german people to give into there government and let a leader declare himself dictator without standing up for democracy.

These events led you to support the Kennedy brothers??? :unsure:

[Y2A]

The failures of communist governments are due to the fact that it cut them off from the global economy and due to centralization all well meant revolutions eventually became totalitarian states, the USSR for example. How you blame this on the Kennedy's for some reason baffles me. And take into account the fact that it was JFK who wanted to end funding to the CIA, which was created to combat communism.

Edit: BTW the question is who or what events contributes to your ideology not what events contribute to who you idolize.

[commie kg]

Great thread Bolshevika.

"Liberal Marxist" has different meanings to different people on this board. For some, it means "anarcho-communism", a mix of anarchism and some Marxist elements, like historical materialism.

Personally, I like to think of myself as a Marxist, plain and simple. I do not believe in the idea of a monolithic vanguard party, but I also think that anarchism is unrealistic. I think that after the revolution, it will be up to the proletarians to decide what happens. If they want to go the way of anarchism, then so be it. The same goes if they want to try Leninism again. I'll just argue my position, and hope that some people understand.

And some people that have influenced my ideas:

Karl Marx & Frederich Engels
Rosa Luxemburg
Eugene V. Debs
Kautsky (in some ways)

[LuZhiming]

John F Kennedy
Robert F Kennedy
(can't think of any more)

I am not meaning to insult your views, but do you realize you are supporting the most extensive terrorist program in history?


The failure of communist revolutions around the world.

It's funny that the evidence is the opposite of your words. Russia, Nicaragua, and Cuba are prime examples to prove this point.


I personally don't have an ideology to limit myself to. I do have people that I am influenced by: Fidel Castro, Che Guevara(Although this one isn't ideologically in the slightest, I admire Che's anti-imperialist actions and views on subjects such as poverty), Maurice Bishop, Mohammad Mossadegh, Jacobo Arbenz, Daniel Ortega, Xun Yu, Cao Cao(Purely technical), Noam Chomsky etc.

The most notable events that influence me are the Cuban Revolution, Mossadegh National Front, the heroic death of Xun Yu, Cao Cao's rise to power, the Sandinistas ruling of Nicaragua, Jacobo Arbenz's nationalist policies, Sukarno's national policies, etc.

[YKTMX]

For people I would say, Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Cliff, Gramsci and probably Malcolm X and Muahmmad Ali.

For moments or experiences I would say The Russian Revolution and the Civil rights movement are particuarly inspiring.

[STI]

Hmmm. That's a toughie....


Well, Marx, 'Anarchist' from the www.studentcenter.org Surf Board, Che, Noam Chomsky, Mr. Chouinor (my Philosophy teacher), and a list of several others (the writings of most of whom appeared in 'On Revolution' by William Lutz and Harry Brent).

Events.... well, the Cuban Revolution, the Winnipeg General Strike and scattered, everyday happenings, I guess.

[RedCeltic]

Who are the person's, experiences, etc that contribute to your ideology?

I base my beliefs on my own life experiences, to base your beliefs on the experiences of another individual is foolish.

[Germanator]

Dali Lama
George Orwell
Karl Marx
Robert Kennedy
Albert Einstein
Abraham Maslow
Carl Jung
Tool

I guess I'm sort of a "left-libertarian", whereby I believe the government should be a helping hand and not a scolding father/moralist figure. I agree with Marx's economic equality to a degree, but I totally disagree with the controls it places on thought and expression.

[el_profe]

experiences: Living in latin america and seeing how stupid economic policies (raising taxes, raising minimum wage.. among others) have ruined my country and the rest of latin america.

[RedCeltic]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 05:37 PM
experiences: Living in latin america and seeing how stupid economic policies (raising taxes, raising minimum wage.. among others) have ruined my country and the rest of latin america.
Most economists will tell you that a raise in minimum wage directly results in increased productivity of workers, and therefore a raise in profits of the middle and upper classes.

I've mentioned this before in another thread (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=21219), but it has to do with supply and demand. The more a corperation is willing to pay workers for a job, the more workers they corperation has to choose from... because the more people that will want that job.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by RedCeltic+Jan 16 2004, 12:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RedCeltic @ Jan 16 2004, 12:16 AM)
[email protected] 15 2004, 05:37 PM
experiences: Living in latin america and seeing how stupid economic policies (raising taxes, raising minimum wage.. among others) have ruined my country and the rest of latin america.
Most economists will tell you that a raise in minimum wage directly results in increased productivity of workers, and therefore a raise in profits of the middle and upper classes.

I&#39;ve mentioned this before in another thread (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=21219), but it has to do with supply and demand. The more a corperation is willing to pay workers for a job, the more workers they corperation has to choose from... because the more people that will want that job. [/b]
Hmmm. But you dont raise the minimum wage 4 times in 4 years when the country is in ressecion. In fact worker of factories, protested, not massive protest, but they did protest, the last 2 increases because many have lost jobs because of the increases.

Wage increases raises productivity but its not necessary to have minimum wage to raise wages.

[Y2A]

Your hispanic "el_profe"??? If so then what country are you from.

[RedCeltic]

Hmmm. But you dont raise the minimum wage 4 times in 4 years when the country is in ressecion. In fact worker of factories, protested, not massive protest, but they did protest, the last 2 increases because many have lost jobs because of the increases.

Wage increases raises productivity but its not necessary to have minimum wage to raise wages.

Well I don&#39;t know what countery you are talking about. (Sorry if I missed it.) Raising it four times, is an obvious attempt at jumpstarting an economy that is in trouble.

I don&#39;t know what had caused it however. I do know however that jobs that were at one time going from the United States to Latin America due to lower pay down there are now going to Asia, because workers there are willing to work for even lower.

So the same effect that had hurt American workers, would hurt Latin workers.

Also a possible slump in the economies in Latin America is the present slump in the American economy. Although George W. Bush wants to think it&#39;s on the rebound, (and has been saying it is for months now) it affects many latin American counteries that mainly export to the United States.

Personally, I don&#39;t believe in a minimum wage (nor a wage system lol) however I know that it has been able to get some regions out of a sluggish economy.

New Jersey for example was able to get out of a sluggish economy by raising it&#39;s minimum wage.

Raising it four times in one year, obviously means whoever was in charge was reacting to affects the could not control... and doing something that under a capitalist system would leave a population devistated.

I don&#39;t belive in capitalism, and thus have no respect for liberals who think raising the minimum wage will solve everything. Economicly speaking, I know under capitalism, it can bring some growth to a state or region but utlimitly it is a much used band-aid that capitalist governments use to white wash over deeper problems.

Raising the minimum wage four times in one year is unheard of in the United States, and the only resonable answer I could give to any capitalist countery doing that would be that perhaps the minimum wage was so low to begin with... and that raising in to the eventual end of what it was after the four time raise... in one shot was too much of a burden on the industry.

Still, what works in some places, doesn&#39;t work in other places. If there is enough industry to coushen the affect of raising the wage, that is one thing... but if it is raised in a countery or place where there is only one industy (say farming) than raising the wage isn&#39;t going to generate more wealth for the obvious impverished capitalist state.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 01:19 AM
Your hispanic "el_profe"??? If so then what country are you from.
Guatemala,

RED CELTIC: its guatemala,I should of metntioned that.


Raising the minimum wage four times in one year is unheard of in the United States, and the only resonable answer I could give to any capitalist countery doing that would be that perhaps the minimum wage was so low to begin with... and that raising in to the eventual end of what it was after the four time raise... in one shot was too much of a burden on the industry.

Still, what works in some places, doesn&#39;t work in other places. If there is enough industry to coushen the affect of raising the wage, that is one thing... but if it is raised in a countery or place where there is only one industy (say farming) than raising the wage isn&#39;t going to generate more wealth for the obvious impverished capitalist state.
I said 4 times in 4 years. The minimum wage was not that low. The thing is the economy was/is in recession and had enough problems handeling the first time they raised it, and then they raised it 3 more times? :blink:
Anyway this gov. was just horrible, worst ive ever seen, most corrupt and didtn do shit. In fact in a recent pole this gov. came out the worst ever.

[Comrade Ceausescu]

I would say that I have to give much credit to Che for getting me interested in communism in the first place.I&#39;d also say my dad,a staunch anti-communist,who gave me the other point of view since I was three,and indirectly taught me why it was wrong.

[Comrade Zeke]

Well im interested in Communism because most of my life I have heard from my school that Russia is evil.But ever since a Russian moved into my house I changed my views from being a hippie person who love America,to a Communist who loves Ireland and is against America. Im a Titoist and im proud of it.I just finished reading the Communist Manefeto 3 times and I think Communism is one of the best forms of goverment I would also like to thank the Communist leaders,writers,Communist coutries and Karl Marx who got me into Communism long live the CUBAN REVOLUTION&#33; My thanks to:

My mother&#39;s homeland Yugoslavia.
Ireland which I just found out without the Socailists wouldn&#39;t be a country.
The C.S.A the Conferate states of America because they thaught me to defire the goverment.
Fidel Casrto for stadding up to the USA.
Che Guveara and his freedom from America.
The Russian who lives in my house.
Marshal Tito president of Communist Yugoslavia
Abby Hoffman because he called the cops pigs
Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.
Revolutionaries.
The Beatles because "All we need is Love"
Veitnam.
Enrnest Heminway who thaught me that Comrades are Comrades and you should never give them up.
And my good friends the Hippies.lol :D
Thank you Bosheviaka for letting me state my mind.

[Bradyman]

I agree with Marx&#39;s economic equality to a degree, but I totally disagree with the controls it places on thought and expression.

wtf? Prehaps you are referring to the "communist" countries of the past century, not the writings and ideas of Marx. I think you need to read Marx&#39;s works before you say such a thing.

People:
Marx, Engels, Einstien, Che, Upton Sinclair, redstar2000 :D

[RedCeltic]

I said 4 times in 4 years.

Sorry about that, I read it too fast I suppose. Still, it&#39;s alot more than we are used to here.


The minimum wage was not that low. The thing is the economy was/is in recession and had enough problems handeling the first time they raised it, and then they raised it 3 more times?

As I&#39;ve said, in a capitalist economy, a raise in wage isn&#39;t going to solve much unless there is enough industry to absorb it. It&#39;s one of the many reasons why I don&#39;t support a capitalist system.


Anyway this gov. was just horrible, worst ive ever seen, most corrupt and didtn do shit. In fact in a recent pole this gov. came out the worst ever.

That is true, many Governments in Latin America have been very horrible, and have devistated the people. However... because most of these, including the one you are talking about, have all been capitalist , I don&#39;t see how that prompts you to make your anti-worker voice heard here on Che-Lives.

For personally, all you have pointed out are problems with the capitalist system in latin America... which is what us, and Che had been fighting agianst.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 05:37 AM

Anyway this gov. was just horrible, worst ive ever seen, most corrupt and didtn do shit. In fact in a recent pole this gov. came out the worst ever.

That is true, many Governments in Latin America have been very horrible, and have devistated the people. However... because most of these, including the one you are talking about, have all been capitalist , I don&#39;t see how that prompts you to make your anti-worker voice heard here on Che-Lives.

For personally, all you have pointed out are problems with the capitalist system in latin America... which is what us, and Che had been fighting agianst.
No, that its a market full of restrictions, protections and priviliges.
They have protected certain industries from competition, then certain people are priviliged from paying taxes or get other types of help.
The market is full of restrictions, taxes, tariffs.

That is not capitalism.

[Indysocialist]

Comrade Zeke:

When you say the Confederate States of America do you mean the stars and bars confederates? You do realize that they advocated slavery right? Not to mention the current incarnation, the Southern Independence Party is staunchly anti-Communist and accuses Lincoln of being friends with Karl Marx through letter communication. But to each his own. If you don&#39;t mean the South then I apologize for the little spiel there.

Anyway, I guess I should answer the question:

Howard Zinn&#39;s history interpretations
Noam Chomsky
Che Guevara

Events that have influenced me (I&#39;m usually more of a foreign policy person then a domestic affairs kind of guy):

World War II
Vietnam
Nicaragua
Our support of the Mujahadeen (I know I spelled that wrong)
9/11
The bombing of Sudan

among other things.

[Comrade Ceausescu]

Comrade Zeke:

When you say the Confederate States of America do you mean the stars and bars confederates? You do realize that they advocated slavery right? Not to mention the current incarnation, the Southern Independence Party is staunchly anti-Communist and accuses Lincoln of being friends with Karl Marx through letter communication. But to each his own. If you don&#39;t mean the South then I apologize for the little spiel there.


I was wondering the same.I think I saw someone else say this on here.If you support slavery you are not a communist.I hadn&#39;t heard about Marx and Lincoln talking to each other or acknowledging each other&#39;s exsistence.

[Comrade Zeke]

The C.S.A is not about Slaverly it about the indpendece and freedom from the evil Corrupt American Imperlism,slavery is wrong but the southerns tried to fight for there independence...and I think that Robert E.lee was a great leader but if my fellow Comrades do want to give up my my love of the CSA and their independece I will do so if you wish so i can be a true Communist :)

[Indysocialist]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 16 2004, 06:52 AM

Comrade Zeke:

When you say the Confederate States of America do you mean the stars and bars confederates? You do realize that they advocated slavery right? Not to mention the current incarnation, the Southern Independence Party is staunchly anti-Communist and accuses Lincoln of being friends with Karl Marx through letter communication. But to each his own. If you don&#39;t mean the South then I apologize for the little spiel there.


I was wondering the same.I think I saw someone else say this on here.If you support slavery you are not a communist.I hadn&#39;t heard about Marx and Lincoln talking to each other or acknowledging each other&#39;s exsistence.
It&#39;s primarily bullshit, the Southern Independence Party claimed that they found documents out in an old toolshed by the White House that had letters from Karl Marx addressed to Lincoln. The reason I know about these guys is I had to do a project on them in high school (the Southern Independence Party that is).

Here&#39;s the link:

http://www.southernindependentparty.com/

And Comrade Zeke, don&#39;t give your beliefs up that easily, believe whatever the fuck you want to believe, at least that&#39;s my standpoint. Though I would recommend doing some serious research before making claims of support for a group like the confederacy. Are you by chance from the South?

[Comrade Ceausescu]

The C.S.A is not about Slaverly it about the indpendece and freedom from the evil Corrupt American Imperlism,slavery is wrong but the southerns tried to fight for there independence...and I think that Robert E.lee was a great leader but if my fellow Comrades do want to give up my my love of the CSA and their independece I will do so if you wish so i can be a true Communist

I mean,the only kind thing I can say about the southerners in the civil war is that they stood up.But just because they are revolutionaries dosen&#39;t mean they are good people.As for Robert E. Lee,I heard he was a great military tactican and not a bad guy,but none the less,he was on the wrong side and should not be glorified.


It&#39;s primarily bullshit, the Southern Independence Party claimed that they found documents out in an old toolshed by the White House that had letters from Karl Marx addressed to Lincoln. The reason I know about these guys is I had to do a project on them in high school (the Southern Independence Party that is).

Here&#39;s the link:

Weirdos......Thanks for the info,though comrade.

[Comrade Zeke]

Yes I have done much reserch on the civil war and the Confedaracy,and how the war didn&#39;t start over slaves but really in a weird way Southern Nationalism. And no im not from the South im from the most non American state you can think of:Hawaii. But I guess Ill give it up its ok you guys are right but just like anyone else they had a right to stand up and fight for what they beilived in. :D

[Comrade Ceausescu]

Yup I am not discrediting them for fighting for what they belived in-I just think it was totally wrong :P

[Comrade Zeke]

Not to go off the topic of How many people contribute to things.......one thing im not clear on Comrade Ceausescu but what is Zinoviev or Zinovievism???? you know the man that ran against Stalin and Torsky after Lennin died??? :huh:

[Comrade Ceausescu]

He was someone who sided with Trotsky.

[Comrade Zeke]

OH OK THANKS IM GOT TO GO BACK TO YELLING AT MY GAY FRIEND WHO BAD MOUTHING ME ABOUT COMMUNISM AND SAYING THAT IM A FASIAST BECAUSE I THINK IT IS BETTER :angry:

[redstar2000]

People: far too many to list.

Events:

The Egyptian nationalization of the Suez Canal & the British-French-Israeli invasion that followed (1956).

The Greensboro, North Carolina sit-ins (1960) and the rise of the freedom movement (called the "civil rights" movement by bourgeois historians).

The American-supported gusano invasion of Cuba in 1961.

The first major demonstration against the war in Vietnam, New York City, May 2, 1964.

The Mississippi "freedom summer" of 1964.

The 36-hour sit-in at Sproul Plaza, Berkeley, 1964 and the rise of the "new left".

The June 1965 Convention of Students for a Democratic Society (Kewadin, Michigan).

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[kylieII]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 16 2004, 07:44 AM
Not to go off the topic of How many people contribute to things.......one thing im not clear on Comrade Ceausescu but what is Zinoviev or Zinovievism???? you know the man that ran against Stalin and Torsky after Lennin died??? :huh:
I&#39;ve never heard of zinovievism, but the person was a Bolshevik, quite an opportunistic one, who at various times supported Stalin, then Trotksy, then Stalin again.

Oh and probably Weber and Lyotard are the individuals who have contributed the most to my current political thinking.