The Irrationality of Fascism

[Comrade #138672]

It's often been said here, especially by Rafiq if I am not mistaken, that both fascism and the petty bourgeoisie are inherently irrational, as opposed to socialism and the proletariat. What does this even mean, though? Surely fascism's purpose is to prolong the lifetime of capitalism, even if it is only in the short term, by keeping it in the tightest grip possible? And since the petty bourgeoise benefits from capitalism, then this is not entirely irrational from their point of view, or is it? Also, what about the many proletarians who have been fooled by fascists? Are they rational? If not, then how can this be, when they are supposed to be inherently rational?

Is the concept of rationality even that useful?

[Jimmie Higgins]

Well I don't know about that specific language. I guess that I'd say that middle-class ideologies tend to be more intensly contradictory and confused because of the position that middle class people tend to hold and fascism would be a very extreeme example of this. Middle class people in their roles do need capitalism, but they do not have influence over the system in the same way big owners do. They also don't have much collective power because they have to compete with eachother to advance professionally or on the market which makes solidarity only go so far.

And I'd argue that working class people who've been won to reactionary politics or fascism are certaintly not acting in their class interests, but they haven't been fooled either. They are being won to a view that the order of society promised by fascism is the best answer to the problems and and chaos of life in capitalism. This is why demoralization on a class struggle level will sometimes cause some workers who may have even been involved in worker's struggles to then swing towards supporting the far right. In a less extreeme example, I think this is why a chunk of US workers have been won to libertarian type agrguments: they don't have any faith in class struggle or union struggle helping win collective advancement, so they have been convinced by arguments that induvidual advancement is the only way, and tax cuts are more possible and easier to get than it is to win a raise.

[Comrade #138672]

How are some workers not being fooled, while at the same time being won over to a view that is in contradiction to their class interest? They are deliberately being fed a false consciousness that they buy into. How is that not being fooled, at least to some degree?

[Jimmie Higgins]

How are some workers not being fooled, while at the same time being won over to a view that is in contradiction to their class interest? They are deliberately being fed a false consciousness that they buy into. How is that not being fooled, at least to some degree?Well I don't know if this is really an important point, but I think it's because as induviduals people don't automatically see things in terms of their class; anyone can be convinced of a particular view even if it's ultimately against their class interests. Yes it would be an example of false consiousness, but I personally wouldn't consider it necissarily being "fooled", as in duped, just because of the connotation of the term. But it's neither here nor there, I guess.

[argeiphontes]

And I'd argue that working class people who've been won to reactionary politics or fascism are certaintly not acting in their class interests, but they haven't been fooled either. They are being won to a view that the order of society promised by fascism is the best answer to the problems and and chaos of life in capitalism.

It's a rational choice, among perceived realistic alternatives. If you can't beat em, join em. But it's not rational with respect to socialism.

Fascism is also irrational in another way, in that it appeals to individuals for irrational reasons, for example authoritarianism and nationalism, xenophobia, or whatever. Pathologially titanic will-to-power even, in the case of the subject of Godwin's Law.

[blake 3:17]

I didn't understand the petty bourgeois psychology of fascism til I had a manager, who wasn't actually a manager but wanted to be one, who'd go around and mess with everybody, boss boss boss. The desire to be Big Power, identification with power money, while being weak is a boiled down psychology of fascism.