Size Matters?

[Skyhilist]

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/35036/title/Penises--The-Bigger-the-Better-/

A new study involving showing women different body types has supported the idea that "size does matter". Thats basically what the article says.

Anyways I posted it because I wanted to critique given that it's being posted on large facebook pages like "I Fucking Love Science" despite serious flaws and things it fails to consider.

One thing that this study failed to do was account for causation -- that is why size would matter, and whether or not this reason is for the benefit of our evolution or just a social norm that's propped up by the ruling class in order to make people feel inferior and insecure about themselves. I personally feel that the latter is true. There seems to be no real empirical evidence in any of our closest animal relatives that "size matters" on a genetic basis. It can therefore be inferred that the "size matters" idea is due to social constructs and is not something that benefits us in any positive evolutionary way. By refusing to analyze this and only saying "look, size does matter" only serves to reinforce discriminatory societal norms imposed by the ruling class in order to make people feel worse about themselves causing a deep personal void -- a void that the ruling class hopes will result in mindless workers who attempted to fill that void with consumption, thereby maximizing profits.

As someone who doesn't have any personal insecurities in this field and someone who has a love of scientist, I find it absolutely disgusting that any scientist would write such an ill considered study without examining these things, thereby making people who do have insecurities all the more insecure. Science in this way, whether knowingly or unknowingly, is being used to prop up the insecurities imposed by the ruling class and therefore propping up capitalism. Not to mention that the study isn't really telling us anything that isn't common sense given the way that consumerist society markets big dicks (and likewise large breasts) in the first place. This study is banal and offers us no insight as to the "why", while simultaneously reinforcing feelings of inferiority.

Another reason that this study was bullshit is that it didn't even attempt to imitate the real world: Now I can't speak with any certainty on the way that heterosexual women become attracted to men, but I can tell you that as a man when I build a relationship with a women to the point where we take it to "the next level" I've already decided that I find her to be attractive, thereby making anything revealed to me after that point of far less relevance. I'd imagine that this is the same with heterosexual women (i.e. they've already decided whether or not they're attracted to a man before hopping in bed with him usually). So really, this study speaks nothing to reality and only to what a women's preference might be when watching some shitty porno or something.

Tl;dr? Bullshit study that failed to take numerous things into consideration, served to reinforce the ruling class' imposed social norms that make people feel lesser, and didn't accurately represent reality.

Thoughts on this?

[RedBen]

"I know exactly how small my dick is. You think you’re telling me something I don’t already know? But does any woman in this room truly know the size of her c_u n_t?" - Jim Jefferies

[Os Cangaceiros]

How big are dolphin penises? I read somewhere that they were one of the few species besides humans that have sex purely for pleasure. A serious study of dolphin penises seems necessary to complete this vital research.

[Skyhilist]

How big are dolphin penises? I read somewhere that they were one of the few species besides humans that have sex purely for pleasure. A serious study of dolphin penises seems necessary to complete this vital research.

I wouldn't be surprised if other primates also do.

I mean in order to actually know this, you'd have to study the brains of these animals while they were having sex (assuming you knew that the animal was capable of getting pleasure out of things) or do something equivalent, which I doubt has been done with every primate.

[bcbm]

"I know exactly how small my dick is. You think you’re telling me something I don’t already know? But does any woman in this room truly know the size of her c_u n_t?" - Jim Jefferies

verbal warning for prejudiced language, and try to bring something a little more substantial to the table next time.

edit: actually, infracted.

How big are dolphin penises? I read somewhere that they were one of the few species besides humans that have sex purely for pleasure. A serious study of dolphin penises seems necessary to complete this vital research.

they are like a foot long. and prehensile.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

I wouldn't be surprised if other primates also do.

I mean in order to actually know this, you'd have to study the brains of these animals while they were having sex (assuming you knew that the animal was capable of getting pleasure out of things) or do something equivalent, which I doubt has been done with every primate.

Primates have in general very small pricks. The human prick is in fact by far the largest, even a gorilla prick is merely a few centimetres long. They do however indeed have sex for pleasure and are rather keen on masturbating.

[Skyhilist]

The human prick is in fact by far the largest

Do you know, has it always been that way, or is that due to size evolving rapidly as female preferences did too under capitalism?

[Os Cangaceiros]

and prehensile. That's awesome.

[Yuppie Grinder]

How big are dolphin penises? I read somewhere that they were one of the few species besides humans that have sex purely for pleasure. A serious study of dolphin penises seems necessary to complete this vital research.

If few animals have sex purely for pleasure than why are there so many homosexual animals? Not arguing, just curious.

[Remus Bleys]

Penis size seems to be social - judging by the fact a lot of roman/greek paintings and sculptures had small prickers.

[argeiphontes]

One thing that this study failed to do was account for causation -- that is why size would matter, and whether or not this reason is for the benefit of our evolution or just a social norm that's propped up by the ruling class in order to make people feel inferior and insecure about themselves. I personally feel that the latter is true.

To paraphrase your namesake, there's a difference between statistical prediction and explanation. You can either record what happens and generate some predictive statistics, or you can try to actually understand something, as you say, on the basis of causation. (So you're right in that regard.)

IMO, I think you're wrong though when you say it's just a social norm. I allow for multiple streams of causality, not just material conditions and class. It can't be denied that biology is determinative of behavior. Some things are partially determined by other things even though they may also be partially determined by social relations. Besides, why isn't biology part of the material grounds of existence? It limits certain horizons, while opening others.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Do you know, has it always been that way, or is that due to size evolving rapidly as female preferences did too under capitalism?

I believe it has evolutionary origins related to sexual selection and the way human sexual intercourse evolved. I forget exactly, it was a long time since I read on the subject.


Penis size seems to be social - judging by the fact a lot of roman/greek paintings and sculptures had small prickers.

Small penis size was seen as beautiful during various Greco-Roman eras, so small pricks would've been a desirable trait to give statues and paintings.

[argeiphontes]

Penis size seems to be social - judging by the fact a lot of roman/greek paintings and sculptures had small prickers.

It could have been modesty for those particular pieces. Ancient Greece was full of ithyphallic imagery.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Small penis size was seen as beautiful during various Greco-Roman eras, so small pricks would've been a desirable trait to give statues and paintings.

Small penis size was only idolised during the Greek era.

[Popular Front of Judea]

It could have been modesty for those particular pieces. Ancient Greece was full of ithyphallic imagery.

Developing my vocabulary. That's why I read Revleft. :grin:

[#FF0000]

I think I saw a study like this the other day that came to the conclusion that women find dudes with penises in a certain proportion to their body more attractive.

Obviously I'm not a trained scientist or anything but it's pretty wild looking at this study, at this data, and then reading the conclusions the study came to. Quite a leap they made, considering the pretty blatant problems in methodology and all that.


As someone who doesn't have any personal insecurities in this field

Humble brag.

[Skyhilist]

I believe it has evolutionary origins related to sexual selection and the way human sexual intercourse evolved. I forget exactly, it was a long time since I read on the subject.



Small penis size was seen as beautiful during various Greco-Roman eras, so small pricks would've been a desirable trait to give statues and paintings.

Can you name any other species where size matters? and if so, is it to the extent that it is in humans?

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Do you know, has it always been that way, or is that due to size evolving rapidly as female preferences did too under capitalism?

Given the average lifespan of humans, the time in which capitalism has existed - a few centuries - is not enough for significant evolutionary change. I suspect the average penis size has probably increased slightly due to the general slight increase in average size. As for the article, there is really a lot of junk science in that area. But there are hard biological constraints - I mean, there has to be a certain amount of pressure on the genital or anal region. I think the reason some men are so obsessed with it is an intersection of the manufacturing of needs under degenerated capitalism, and good old-fashioned machism.

Use a toy, people.


Small penis size was only idolised during the Greek era.

In fact Greeks idolised the penes of prepubescent boys - notice the foreskin on many of their sculptures. Romans liked their penises big, but also found big penises hilarious. I wonder what people will be saying about our aesthetic preferences in a few hundred years' time.

[Hit The North]

In fact Greeks idolised the penes of prepubescent boys - notice the foreskin on many of their sculptures. Romans liked their penises big, but also found big penises hilarious. I wonder what people will be saying about our aesthetic preferences in a few hundred years' time.

kMGu-55sKJs

[Devrim]

If few animals have sex purely for pleasure than why are there so many homosexual animals? Not arguing, just curious.

When people talk about animals not having sex for pleasure, they don't mean that they don't get pleasure from it, but that it is not done when the animals are not in a fertile period.

Of course dogs enjoy it, otherwise dogs wouldn't try to hump your grandmother's leg in embarrassing social situations. *****es though won't have sex when they are not in heat, which happens about twice a year, and lasts for a couple of weeks.

Devrim

[The Feral Underclass]

What is meant by "size"? Length or girth? As I understand it isn't there only a certain amount of depth in a vagina? In terms of sex for pleasure, girth is probably the most important factor if size is a factor at all.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

When people talk about animals not having sex for pleasure, they don't mean that they don't get pleasure from it, but that it is not done when the animals are not in a fertile period.

Of course dogs enjoy it, otherwise dogs wouldn't try to hump your grandmother's leg in embarrassing social situations. *****es though won't have sex when they are not in heat, which happens about twice a year, and lasts for a couple of weeks.

Devrim

Dogs don't hump your leg for sex. That's a sign of showing dominance - there is nothing sexual about it.

[Devrim]

Of course dogs enjoy it, otherwise dogs wouldn't try to hump your grandmother's leg in embarrassing social situations. *****es though won't have sex when they are not in heat,

I am not sure if somebody has edited that reference to female dogs out, or a filter did it automatically. Either way it is pretty absurd.

Devrim

[Skyhilist]

Would any competitive economic system though (as opposed to cooperative) cause this to be more pronounced? I mean we've had those for more than just a few centuries, and the rate of evolution is itself determined by surroundings, and can on some occasions be far more rapid than usual.

[human strike]

I think our old friend Freud can help us answer this one. The penis is a symbol of mastery. From an early age boys learn to use, control and play with their penis; first through urinating and then later through masturbation. For girls their sexual organs are a mystery; inside the body, untouched. When confounded with patriarchy and male supremacy - specifically the centrality placed on male domination and male sexuality - is it any wonder that penis size can become so psychologically important? And it's worth pointing out that sex reflects patriarchal social relations and does not somehow escape male supremacy, far from it in fact (except where sex consciously subverts actual domination).

[argeiphontes]

Unless you mean 'mastery' in the sense of 'mastery of a task', I think it would be better to say that the penis is a symbol of assertion and masculine eros. Check out the Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phallus). The domination that you're alluding to is the distortion of Phallos in this Titanic age of capitalism. Note that the ancient Greeks had other uses for Phallos besides domination. Christian morality also distorts Phallos, e.g. relegating it to the realm of the obscene. Thus paradoxically hypersexualizing it, I'd assume.

edit: For some insight into the nature of Phallos, you could read about the nature of a "well-developed" (imaginatively) phallic god like Hermes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes). I'd also recommend the book, Phallos: Sacred Image of the Masculine (http://www.amazon.com/Phallos-Masculine-Studies-Psychology-Analysis/dp/0919123260/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380476449&sr=8-1&keywords=Phallos) by Eugene Monick, a Jungian analyst.