why is right-wing libertarianism so popular?

[Anarcho Jackson Jones]

I have this unfortunate feeling that right-wing libertarianism is becoming the dominant anti-establishment ideology. It's like if you're not a liberal or conservative, you have to be a Von Mises fan and believe the problem with capitalism is not capitalism, but the state screwing around with "true" capitalism. Free markets are the answer, or voluntarism, or laissez-faire. I feel like for every leftist I meet, there's like 5 of these libertarians out there. And that's due to a few reasons.

First off, any kind of left-wing ideology can't even be discussed now because no one understands it. No one even attempts to understand it. Anytime you mention socialism or communism, you're equated to Joseph Stalin and you must want the KGB to arrest people for questioning the state. Most people don't even understand that communism requires the abolition of the state and social classes. They think communism is basically feudalism. Which is so bizarre. It's not surprising they're afraid of communism as THEY define it. But their definition is the total opposite.

Also, you have people like Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Alex Jones, Penn Gillete, Adam Kokesh, Stefan Molyneux, etc. who promote this right-wing garbage, but hardly anyone who offers the leftist perspective. Noam Chomsky comes to mind, but many people view him as an out-of-touch elitist who fails to understand "true" capitalism, and the fucking liberals just call him a liberal, which creates even more confusion. I'm really worried about this right-wing libertarian stuff honestly. The Libertarian Party membership has skyrocketed and like 1 million people voted for their candidate in the last presidential election. This needs to be addressed. Capitalism is in a crises, and people no longer trust the establishment status quo, but since no one offers a leftist perspective, everyone is flocking to the right. It honestly frightens me.

[Kush Brannigan]

I actually voted for a libertarian candidate for the presidential election of 2012. I completely disagree with their ideology, and I think they are incredibly misguided. Plus, I hate capitalism with a passion.

BUT

They do wish to clog the machine in a way. Most libertarians recognize what debt slavery is, and they understand that the Federal Reserve should be dismantled. They also are generally isolationist.

The way I see libertarians is, they seek to weaken the government significantly. If they do that, WE have more power. So their ideology may be problematic and undesirable, but they are at least the most logical and practical way right now to somehow weaken the US government and weaken its imperialism. And that is at least SOMETHING right?

[ChrisK]

People flock to libertarian perspectives because they know that the two-party system dominate in America screws them over. As a response they run to the ideology that promises them freedom, even though it equally screws them. I've known staunch union members who saw Ron Paul as their ally because his rhetoric appeals to their knowledge that the system is fucked. So while they know that the system is fucked, they also do not have access to the information that they need to understand why it is fucked. All they have is propaganda. This makes the libertarians so appealing; they admit that something is seriously wrong and appeal to the brainwashing that workers have received their whole lives.

The real problem is that the radical left has no effective voice. If workers were to hear our arguments, then they would know they have another alternative. I'm not saying that simply talking to workers will cause them to change their minds; there is a powerful propaganda machine that demonizes our message. However, our ability to communicate key ideas about class struggle and the power of the working class is one of the few things we have. With a more effective voice we would stand a better chance of presenting an alternative to libertarian thought.

What we really need is a leftist equivalent to an Alex Jones who has a radio program and makes documentaries sans the conspiracies. That is something that we do not have.

[tuwix]

I have this unfortunate feeling that right-wing libertarianism is becoming the dominant anti-establishment ideology.

I's prettty US perspective. From European one they are not dominant at all. But wy they're so popular? It's just side effect of that bullshit that everything what is "free market" ist the best despite anything such as free market can't exist. propaganda wanted "free market" and then have raised "freemarketeers" against themselves becuase they have realised that propaganda isn't "free market".

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

The Libertarian Party has 330,000 or so members, which is still small time compared to the Republican Party or Democratic Party in terms of support, and its 2012 presidential ticket received about 1% of the popular vote (even if that was a significant increase over 2008).

From the right-libertarians I know (having worked in the tech industry, I met lots of them), many are Objectivists, some just want the government to leave them to smoke pot in peace.

American social ideology, more so than in Europe for example, has always promoted individualism, and right-libertarianism appeals to that. For those who are economically right-libertarian more so than socially, the Republican Party is a more natural home, and one where they can actually have an effect on national politics. Like the Koch Brothers and the Tea Party movement, which has taken over the Republican Party to a large extent.

Still, even the numbers the Libertarian Party does have are better than all the US Left parties combined and then some. That speaks to the continuing failure of the Left to provide an alternative and wake up a sense of class consciousness.

[Kingfish]

Well charismatic internet personalities help but ultimately I think it succeeds for the same reason populism did historically in that it correctly identifies the problems facing society (although not their causes) then cherry picks some left-wing theory only to wrap it up in a more familiar and acceptable right wing ideology. Of course the end result being a tool for a minority to gain greater control.

Accordingly for a lot of people it provides all the appeal of anti-authoritarian and anarchism arguments whilst simultaneously bi-passing the ingrained biases associated with them.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

I've encountered very few of them off the internet. When I was younger there were a lot of people I knew that identified as such but they did so because identifying as a republican when you are 19 or 20 is very unfashionable. When I run into these people now they are almost always just regular republicans with the exception of 1 dude who produces a political podcast.

[edwad]

from what i've seen, the libertarian party is kinda the hipster party for people that want to get their hipster lifestyle out of their personal politics as well, by avoiding the mainstream parties and rooting for the underdog. most libertarians don't even realize what the party's stance is, other than the decriminalizing pot thing, which is sad. the people that argue for complete freedom within the libertarian party and are opposed to the state like to say that they're almost anarchist, which is obviously wrong, but it makes you wonder if maybe they think that right-libertarianism is the only thing that offers that level of freedom. i bet there are plenty of libertarians that would be great libertarian socialists if there was a stronger left-libertarian voice out there.

[Comrade Jacob]

The capitalist culture has taught people that we are our own person and we are the ones who are really important and that it's good to be at the top and have lots of money and processions and that state control is socialism and that's bad because it is. Right-wing libertarianism is perfect for that kind of mind-set.

[Mañana]

I think leftist principles of solidarity & community are such a foreign concept to atomized, narcissistic western society that it literally is outside of many people conscious grasp in Orwellian sense.

Soceity has compratementalized into things that fall under financial needs (work), & those that fall it social needs (entertainment), in doing so the ruling class have successfully turn social responsibility into a dictate (labor), as individuals see 'free time' as free from the fetters of laboring for others, & hence take no further self governed social responsibility, enabling the erosion of the best aspects like the welfare state.

The problem with the only mainstream thinking about governance being macroscopic is it's outside the influence of individuals, & it is sociopathic, the same said of utilitarianism measurement (do you kill a health person to harvest organs to save 6 in hospital), this misses a whole dimension that we as human organism have evolved to thrive, from reciprocation altruism.

With this outlook I don't find it surprising that anarcho-capitalist ideology is on the rise, espcially from the center of this culture, in the US, people know that something is deeply wrong around them, & they find hope in something they are capible of easily digesting.

[Skyhilist]

It is popular because the ruling class permits it to be popular.

It makes people feel rebellious without really threatening the class rule of the bourgeoisie. Also bullshits people into thinking they might have even more a choice, as in "hey i don't like the dems or repubs so i can vote libertarian and participate in democracy and everything will be better!"

[Red Flag Waver]

The only libertarians I know IRL are a couple of relatives. One is basically a well-meaning liberal (more Keith Olbermann than Alex Jones) who knows injustice when he sees it, but thinks that Ron Paul and metallism will make everything better. The other is not so well-meaning (he hates women, minorities, fat people, Jews, "white trash," etc.). He joined the Libertarian Party because he doesn't want the government telling him what to do, yet he supports drug laws and imperialist wars. So I tend to see libertarianism less as a political stance and more as a club for confused people.

[Red_Banner]

I don't consider the right-wing's "libertarianism" to be actual libertarianism.

I, like Joseph Dejacque, consider it to be an anarcho-communist idea.

[Aleister Granger]

Well my damn! In the days since the governments shut—down, I've noticed that opinions towards RW lolbertarians has collapsed in the America. Just days ago I was sure that it was a sizable minority, yet I'm proven wrong.

It seems that the perceived loss of government services has frightened too many Americans and they feel that the gloating of libertarians (especially at the plight of the workers who are out of work) is Darth Vaderist if anything.

[argeiphontes]

^ Yeah, the fact that popularity of the Tea Party is way down is probably indicative of that. I thoroughly enjoyed the recent bashing of Ted Cruz by the media.

[Greedisgood]

I will answer your prays. I am a Libertarian. I regular watch Peter Schiff on You-Tube and I like upsetting Government.

I think the problem is you need to redefine Socialism.
Marx & Lenin lived in a different time. Now we live in a technological world instead of mass factories. Today we live in a different world and people are very judgemental. You need to become selective with your words. You also need to show people class war exists instead of ranting about the various Racists or the numerous Nazis etc.

Anyway ask some questions. Would love to help.

[Aleister Granger]

Karl Marx was right, but he lived in the 19th century. The "wave of the future" will undoubtedly involve automation. As soon as automation reaches 50% of the workforce, shit hits fan. And it's coming sooner than anyone ever expected

Shit I think I'm becoming a technocrat or whatever they're called.

[argeiphontes]

^ I denounce you for not being a revolutionary leftist. You should be sent to the harsh Siberia that is Opposing Ideologies. ;) I'm serious though, you should.

The capitalist system hasn't fundamentally changed since Marx's day just because there's better technology. Ask the Foxconn wage slaves.

[Aleister Granger]

^ But it will. It might take another decade of Western leftist saying "Each to his own cheeseburger and iPod" (I laugh at this because an actual Trotskyite said this though in mockery) but capitalism cannot survive mass automation.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

How do you 'upset' government? Does it involve passing around online petitions to legalize weed and wearing guy fawkes masks for selfies posted to facebook?

[Greedisgood]

Well Siberia is rather nice actually. I like cold places. I'm a Northerner. Don't throw me in opposing ideologies though. Its boring there.

But I agree though. What I mean is the way we interact has changed. Instead of word of mouth we use technology. And there are not many factories in certain places any more. Take Detriot for example. There is no means of production there any more because the dirty pigs moved it.

[Greedisgood]

Simple. I avoid paying taxes by legal tax avoidance and then offer a wtf big donation at the food-bank.

I refuse to pay for Government 3 course meals when there are starving families just a few houses away from me.

Where I live now the Government is basically taking food away from disabled people and declaring them fit to work. They are that sick minded.

[Popular Front of Judea]

I will answer your prays. I am a Libertarian. I regular watch Peter Schiff on You-Tube and I like upsetting Government.

Our "prays" truly have been answered. We have in our presence an authentic internet libertarian. Let the questions fly!

[RadioRaheem84]

The only reason libertarianism is popular is because it's not a real viable threat to the establishment and represents a faux anti establishment line.

If a real deal left wing movement had a modicum of what the libertarians gained it would be met with repression. There would be a COINTELPRO style violent answer to it.

[Greedisgood]

Not sure if I've been un-restricted yet.

@RadioRaheem84

Actually the reason why Libertarianism is attractive to me because its about individualistic preference for freedoms.

Quite frankly if a political system exists which I disagree with I simply ignore it and avoid it.

[Aleister Granger]

The point is that America is a backwards place. It's not quite right to judge the general state of the world on America anymore. I say let the Americans have their little ways. When America's still a confused schizoid nation and the rest of the world are transhumanist super states far beyond human then Americans will see that they've really fucked themselves

[TheEmancipator]

What we really need is a leftist equivalent to an Alex Jones who has a radio program and makes documentaries sans the conspiracies. That is something that we do not have and who you don't have the urge to punch in the face.


That way Michael Moore is excluded.

[Zalor]

This is a quote from Kwisatz Haderach that I found from an old topic labeled libertarianism-anarcho-capitalism All credit goes to him for writing it:


"But the bourgeoisie has no intention of allowing libertarians to seize government power. Libertarians are deluded, and, if they took office, their policies would lead capitalism to collapse. The bourgeoisie knows this, but they pour huge amounts of money into libertarian think-tanks anyway. Why? Not because they want the libertarians to take over, but because they want to flood workers' minds with libertarian propaganda.

This is an essential point to remember: Libertarianism is a ghost ideology whose primary purpose is the production of capitalist propaganda. The bourgeoisie wants people to believe that libertarianism and socialism are two dangerous extremes and that a "mixed economy" (= existing forms of capitalism) is the best balance between them. Libertarian propaganda is very important in maintaining the status quo, and it must be fought relentlessly.”

In other words Libertarianism is popular because because private enterprises and sources of media, such as the ones owned by Rupert Murdock, Fox News is a good example, are supported by the Right in order to convince the uneducated of an ideology that would go against their own interests, but benefit the wealthy. The bourgeoisie prefer and even benefit from people believing libertarianism.

[argeiphontes]

This is a quote from Kwisatz Haderach

The Kwisatz Haderach is merely a representative of the bourgeoisie who wants to impose classical liberalist notions of self-determination onto the Fremen. Yet Fremen life revolves around their greatest material resource, which is water, and not the spice melange, which is only desired by the imperialists that are present on Arrakis. In fact, domination of Arrakis has changed hands frequently with Shaddam IV's consent. It's all about who can extract the most resources for the Padishah empire, that's all.

In summary, the liberation of the Fremen must be the work of the Fremen themselves. ;) Though a general strike by the navigators could bring the empire to a halt, literally. ;)

[Zalor]

The Kwisatz Haderach is merely a representative of the bourgeoisie who wants to impose classical liberalist notions of self-determination onto the Fremen. Yet Fremen life revolves around their greatest material resource, which is water, and not the spice melange, which is only desired by the imperialists that are present on Arrakis. In fact, domination of Arrakis has changed hands frequently with Shaddam IV's consent. It's all about who can extract the most resources for the Padishah empire, that's all.

In summary, the liberation of the Fremen must be the work of the Fremen themselves. ;) Though a general strike by the navigators could bring the empire to a halt, literally. ;)

At first I had no idea what you were talking about. Then I realized that you misunderstood who I was quoting. Kwisatz Haderach is a member on this site who posted the quote that I used from another topic, the topic's name was libertarianism-anarcho-capitalism. I was in no way referring to the characters in Dune, just a member of this site who named himself after that character. Also, you reminded me, I should probably read Dune heard it was really good.

[Igor]

At first I had no idea what you were talking about. Then I realized that you misunderstood who I was quoting. Kwisatz Haderach is a member on this site who posted the quote that I used from another topic, the topic's name was libertarianism-anarcho-capitalism. I was in no way referring to the characters in Dune, just a member of this site who named himself after that character. Also, you reminded me, I should probably read Dune heard it was really good.

im p sure he was joking man

[argeiphontes]

^ Yeah, I was just joking. Sorry if it was obtuse.

[Zalor]

^ Yeah, I was just joking. Sorry if it was obtuse.

My bad. If I had read, or was familiar with Dune on any level I probably would have gotten the joke.

[Queen Mab]

I think it's interesting to compare 'libertarian' propertarianism with fascism. Both seem to have gained influence during a crisis of capitalism (post-WW1 crisis of liberal capitalism and the current obvious contradictions of neoliberalism). Both are conceived as of a way of 'fixing' capitalism and averting revolution. Both are nationalist and racist (though perhaps less explicitly so in 'libertarian' thought). And both are most popular with the small bourgeoisie.

[AmilcarCabral]

Hi, many leftists have asked the same question, of why ultra-right wing libertarianism has more appeal to the oppressed massed in America than communism. From my own perspective, I think that the real answer is that right-wing libertarianism is more compatible with the US constitution, with what USA has been, with capitalism, with the free markets, than communism. Communism is more un-politically correct, more anti-US constitution, anti-US economic and political system, and more anti-US philosophy of life (narcissism, individualism, ayn rand etc.) than with a communist philosophy of life (altruism, unity, friendliness, cooperativeness, love, solidarity etc.)

The minds, body and souls of most US citizens, the way americans have lived (very egocentrical, very family-narcissists, very into their own family matters, very anti-strangers, anti-people is a lot more compatible with the values of The Libertarian Party and preachers of libertarianism, than with the values of marxism, socialism and communism and leftist philosophy of life. And that's why most americans (Who hate democrats, republicans, corporate corruption, wars, NSA spying, CIA and oppression) are more willing to support libertarianism, than marxism. Because for marxism and leftist ideology americans would have to do an 100% change mentally, spiritually, and politically. And most radical changes are too painful for americans who don't want to get out of their comfort zones and habits and ultra-individualists, egocentric, family-narcissism traditions









I have this unfortunate feeling that right-wing libertarianism is becoming the dominant anti-establishment ideology. It's like if you're not a liberal or conservative, you have to be a Von Mises fan and believe the problem with capitalism is not capitalism, but the state screwing around with "true" capitalism. Free markets are the answer, or voluntarism, or laissez-faire. I feel like for every leftist I meet, there's like 5 of these libertarians out there. And that's due to a few reasons.

First off, any kind of left-wing ideology can't even be discussed now because no one understands it. No one even attempts to understand it. Anytime you mention socialism or communism, you're equated to Joseph Stalin and you must want the KGB to arrest people for questioning the state. Most people don't even understand that communism requires the abolition of the state and social classes. They think communism is basically feudalism. Which is so bizarre. It's not surprising they're afraid of communism as THEY define it. But their definition is the total opposite.

Also, you have people like Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Alex Jones, Penn Gillete, Adam Kokesh, Stefan Molyneux, etc. who promote this right-wing garbage, but hardly anyone who offers the leftist perspective. Noam Chomsky comes to mind, but many people view him as an out-of-touch elitist who fails to understand "true" capitalism, and the fucking liberals just call him a liberal, which creates even more confusion. I'm really worried about this right-wing libertarian stuff honestly. The Libertarian Party membership has skyrocketed and like 1 million people voted for their candidate in the last presidential election. This needs to be addressed. Capitalism is in a crises, and people no longer trust the establishment status quo, but since no one offers a leftist perspective, everyone is flocking to the right. It honestly frightens me.

[Comrade Chernov]

I wouldn't say that Libertarianism is ultra right-wing, especially since many of its ideas are appealing to leftists (LGBT rights, anti-interventionism, voluntaryism, personal liberties and freedoms, pro-choice stances on abortion, etc).

I'd say that Libertarianism is popular because it's doing an effective job at marketing many of the same ideologies that the Left promotes, without the social stigma of Socialism/Communism. The Left needs to take advantage of Libertarianism's rising popularity, IMO, seeing as Communism and Libertarianism have similar goals (eradication of government vs. lessening of government, respectively).

[helot]

I wouldn't say that Libertarianism is ultra right-wing, especially since many of its ideas are appealing to leftists (LGBT rights, anti-interventionism, voluntaryism, personal liberties and freedoms, pro-choice stances on abortion, etc).

I'd say that Libertarianism is popular because it's doing an effective job at marketing many of the same ideologies that the Left promotes, without the social stigma of Socialism/Communism. The Left needs to take advantage of Libertarianism's rising popularity, IMO, seeing as Communism and Libertarianism have similar goals (eradication of government vs. lessening of government, respectively).

except when these people take up "progressive polciies" there's always a 'but' and that 'but' is their apologism for property. Thus, while they may claim to be in favour of LGBT rights they're also in favour of your employer, your landlord etc denying you access to "their property" if they don't like LGBT people because for them property rights trump all.

[AmilcarCabral]

But my friend, let's be clear about self-interest. I think that most americans who vote for The Democratic Party, The Republican Party, and support Libertarian organizations are less egoists, less individualists and have less self-interests than most americans who support socialist and communist political parties. Because from a real self-interest point of view, socialist and communist parties offer free health care services, totally free education from 1 year old until 24 years old (from daycare centers all the way until college education. And 15 dollars per hour to 20 dollars per hour of minimum wage, along with many other benefits, like cheaper electricity, cheaper phone services, cheaper cable-tv services, cheaper monthly payments of houses and apartments, and cheaper gasoline, cheaper airline travelling, cheaper every thing.

In a socialist economic system every thing would be a lot cheaper. Take cars, I suspect that if Honda Car maker was owned by the US government, a Honda Accord 2013 year would cost 12,000 dollars, instead of 27,000 dollars (currrent list price).

In a socialist system people would also be able to have more fun, I suspect that Disney World, vacation cruises and pleasures like theme parks movie theaters, clothes, computers, playstations, toys etc. would be cheaper. So we can jump to the conclusion that people who support socialism are more egoists and care about their own selves a lot more than people who support capitalist parties and capitalist ideology. Because when average american joes and janes are supporting capitalism, they are really supporting not their own selves, but they are supporting The owners of Wal Mart, Donald Trump, rich celebrities like Tom Cruise, rich baseball players, and rich stars like Madonna.



Not sure if I've been un-restricted yet.

@RadioRaheem84

Actually the reason why Libertarianism is attractive to me because its about individualistic preference for freedoms.

Quite frankly if a political system exists which I disagree with I simply ignore it and avoid it.

[Comrade Chernov]

except when these people take up "progressive polciies" there's always a 'but' and that 'but' is their apologism for property. Thus, while they may claim to be in favour of LGBT rights they're also in favour of your employer, your landlord etc denying you access to "their property" if they don't like LGBT people because for them property rights trump all.

I'm more inclined to think they actually do care for LGBT rights, it was one of the American Libertarian Party's official policies when it was founded (early '70s).