Unemployed Man Sets Fire To Job For Food In Manchester

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Damn. :(


Unemployed man sets fire to job centre to get meal in police cells

Bee O’Brien, 49, flew into a rage after a row over his benefits payments and set fire to the customer telephones at Moss Side job centre after he hadn't eaten for three days

http://i4.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article6096470.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/MENJBWhitehill-Fire-005909_6821663-6096470.jpg

An unemployed man who hadn’t eaten for three days tried to set fire to the job centre – so he could have a meal in police custody.

Bee O’Brien, 49, flew into a rage after a row over his benefits payments and set fire to the customer telephones at Moss Side job centre.

O’Brien had not eaten for three days after his benefits had been stopped.

He told police: “I will commit a crime and get arrested. I need some food.”

O’Brien, of Camelford Close, Hulme, admitted criminal damage, attempted arson, and using threatening words and behaviour when he appeared before Manchester magistrates.

Gina Clayton, defending, said: “His benefits had been stopped for some reason and he hadn’t eaten for three days. He was simply desperate for some food. He went to the job centre to get his payments and lost his temper.

“He was aware that if he was arrested he would have been given food at the police station.”

Helen Veitch, prosecuting, told the court: “A member of staff at the job centre noticed he was arguing on the customer services advice telephone. He was noted to be aggressive and abusive.

“He was asked to leave the job centre, and was told the staff would phone police.”

She said the member of staff then ‘heard a clicking noise’ and saw O’Brien with a cigarette lighter.

She said: “He tried to set fire to the phone cable, then went to another phone and repeated the action. He said – ‘Yes, I’m setting fire to this to get arrested’.”

When police arrived he said: “If you don’t get my money I will commit a crime and get arrested. I need some food.”

He was detained but carried on being abusive in custody and hurled hot chocolate all over his cell.

He was given a 12 month community order and ordered to do 40 hours unpaid work.

link is here (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/unemployed-man-sets-fire-job-6096469)

[Creative Destruction]

This happens with some regularity in the United States, as well. I have a family member who is a jail guard, and he tells me of a few regulars to the county jail who will do things like break windows in order to get health care and get fed, as well as have some semblance of a roof over their head for a few days.

I suppose since you're hungry and angry, you're not entirely rational, but if he was going to commit a crime, it seems better to lift some food from a supermarket. The chances of getting caught would also be a whole lot lower.

[cliffhanger]

Speaking from personal experience, it's sad what weird mentally-ill lumpenproletarians go through in capitalist society.

[Quail]

It seems like there are stories like this happening all over the fucking country at the minute. :(

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

This happens with some regularity in the United States, as well. I have a family member who is a jail guard, and he tells me of a few regulars to the county jail who will do things like break windows in order to get health care and get fed, as well as have some semblance of a roof over their head for a few days.

I suppose since you're hungry and angry, you're not entirely rational, but if he was going to commit a crime, it seems better to lift some food from a supermarket. The chances of getting caught would also be a whole lot lower.

Actually, the whole reason why I posted this is because I don't think his rationale should be put into question at all. I mean, sure, you could gank some food but then what? Plus, you can only steal what you can conceivably conceal and get away with plus this doesn't take into account usual business hours and other variables. Given his actions, I think he was trying to guarantee himself legit meals, hot showers, a bed like structure and protection from the elements. It's perfectly reasonable and logical, if you want a break or can't handle being on the streets/wilderness anymore or at all, it's a way out. It being the penal system is irrelevant. I've known a couple people here and there that have done this and I know people, myself included, who take a similar route and try to go to a hospital for a couple days for detox or drying out or being voluntarily/involuntarily committed, etc.

Before I migrated a little this past month, I actually committed one of my best friends for this reason. I just wish when people read these stories it wouldn't be received as a crazy down and out chap commits some illogical act due to hunger but more of the real face of the effects of capital, made manifest. It should be clear that the man (I don't think) is mentally ill, he's not "crazy," but he's probably just a normal person that, due to this do something or perish society we have created committed an extraordinary act to survive.

[argeiphontes]

40 hours unpaid work--to add insult to injury I guess.

[Creative Destruction]

Actually, the whole reason why I posted this is because I don't think his rationale should be put into question at all. I mean, sure, you could gank some food but then what? Plus, you can only steal what you can conceivably conceal and get away with plus this doesn't take into account usual business hours and other variables. Given his actions, I think he was trying to guarantee himself legit meals, hot showers, a bed like structure and protection from the elements. It's perfectly reasonable and logical, if you want a break or can't handle being on the streets/wilderness anymore or at all, it's a way out. It being the penal system is irrelevant. I've known a couple people here and there that have done this and I know people, myself included, who take a similar route and try to go to a hospital for a couple days for detox or drying out or being voluntarily/involuntarily committed, etc.

Before I migrated a little this past month, I actually committed one of my best friends for this reason. I just wish when people read these stories it wouldn't be received as a crazy down and out chap commits some illogical act due to hunger but more of the real face of the effects of capital, made manifest. It should be clear that the man (I don't think) is mentally ill, he's not "crazy," but he's probably just a normal person that, due to this do something or perish society we have created committed an extraordinary act to survive.

Well, to be clear, I wasn't saying he was mentally ill or crazy. I was speculating, I suppose, that because after three days of hunger and in the face of your benefits being cut, you'd be hungry and angry and that can and does push someone to do irrational things. If that was wrong to do, then I apologize.

Maybe the jail system in the UK is more "civilized," (as much a jail system could be "civilized) but going to jail -- even the county jails in some areas -- is a dangerous proposition in the United States. The violence within our jailhouses is atrocious and sickening, not just from the prison guards but from the prisoners themselves. That's my point of reference. Especially if you're vulnerable, trading a few days in jails is not a good idea in exchange for food, showers and a "roof." Those who can handle it do it, but if you've never been to jail before and you're doing this just to get those things, there are other alternatives that'll put you in less danger.

The part of the homeless population that do actions like this here in the United States do it primarily for the health care. Food is pretty plentiful, whether you go rummaging through the dumpster, go to the churches and shelters or if you just lift from a store. Places to sleep are few and far between, but mutually supportive homeless camps have been popping up all over the place.

It's probably just all different in the UK, though. I don't know.

[cliffhanger]

To be fair, he has strange hair, and he calls himself Bee, so he's probably a weird person. That probably doesn't help the ol' job search. I wonder which leftist group he's a member of.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Since this guy wasn't given a custodial sentence, I imagine that his spell in police custody would involve getting his own cell at a police station. I got cautioned once and I was given a microwave lasagna and a cup of orange juice during my (thankfully brief) stay.

What I find more puzzling is why he threw his hot chocolate over his cell. Missed out on some badly-needed calories, surely?

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Well, to be clear, I wasn't saying he was mentally ill or crazy. I was speculating, I suppose, that because after three days of hunger and in the face of your benefits being cut, you'd be hungry and angry and that can and does push someone to do irrational things. If that was wrong to do, then I apologize.

No, not really, I was just saying.


Maybe the jail system in the UK is more "civilized," (as much a jail system could be "civilized) but going to jail -- even the county jails in some areas -- is a dangerous proposition in the United States. The violence within our jailhouses is atrocious and sickening, not just from the prison guards but from the prisoners themselves. That's my point of reference. Especially if you're vulnerable, trading a few days in jails is not a good idea in exchange for food, showers and a "roof." Those who can handle it do it, but if you've never been to jail before and you're doing this just to get those things, there are other alternatives that'll put you in less danger.

I would agree but I also would say, the alternatives aren't really all that much better. This whole illusion of "safety nets," we have in bourgeois society is just that, an illusion. They're breeding grounds for violence, criminality, etc.


The part of the homeless population that do actions like this here in the United States do it primarily for the health care. Food is pretty plentiful, whether you go rummaging through the dumpster, go to the churches and shelters or if you just lift from a store. Places to sleep are few and far between, but mutually supportive homeless camps have been popping up all over the place.

Yeah but that's real dodgy, you know. The last shelter I was at, I was having a smoke break and these two dudes came up and were trying to sell the staff produce and the staff "declined," after me and another person said it was sketch and that people like them steal shit from work and sell it and that's how a lot of diseases and contaminants get into shelters, jails, etc. Surprise, surprise, we had produce the next night. Food in these sorts of situations is sketch, imho, bottom line. I also will say, sometimes it does pay to have mates with you, if you're homeless but the times I've been fucked over the most have been when I've in in cahoots with someone(s), ftr. I think what I am mainly getting at is, while being in jail could potentially be dangerous, it's still dangerous to be on the streets and for that matter, shelters aren't really that chill either.


It's probably just all different in the UK, though. I don't know.

I can't say for sure, never been to prison in the UK.


To be fair, he has strange hair, and he calls himself Bee, so he's probably a weird person. That probably doesn't help the ol' job search. I wonder which leftist group he's a member of.

it's almost 2014, came ahn.

[Popular Front of Judea]

What struck me about this story was that he was using one of the phones when he lost it -- not talking face to face with a staff person. They have done something similar at the unemployment offices here in my state. If you want to talk to someone that answer more than the basics and can actually do something you are told to call a toll free number. Where these people are bunkered at is a state secret. (I know I tried finding out.) These days the template for any type of assistance office now is a glorified receptionist, security guard, computer terminals and phones. Oh and the always helpful literature rack. :rolleyes:

The automated parole officer scene in Elysium is spot on:

JzF5VawGgiA

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Whichever judge made him do 40 hours unpaid work is clearly having a cruel joke at his expense. Not even a hint of irony in that sentence!

[Comrade Jacob]

This is absolutely a sad reflection of my country. He burned a building down...at least it was his place of work that drove him to do this. I mean 40 hours? A week of work and he won't get paid? Are there people idiots! Damn.

[Sea]

To be fair, he has strange hair, and he calls himself Bee, so he's probably a weird person. That probably doesn't help the ol' job search. I wonder which leftist group he's a member of.I have strange hair and go by the name of Moon Child.

Don't be so judgmental. It's 1975 for fuck's sake.

[Popular Front of Judea]

This is absolutely a sad reflection of my country. He burned a building down...at least it was his place of work that drove him to do this. I mean 40 hours? A week of work and he won't get paid? Are there people idiots! Damn.

Speaking as someone who lives in doesn't give a shit America the UK does seem to take it to the next absurd level. I recently read that people are having their benefits cut because they are not working enough. W T F? (I am searching for the article, should have bookmarked it when I saw it.)

[synthesis]

This is absolutely a sad reflection of my country. He burned a building down...at least it was his place of work that drove him to do this. I mean 40 hours? A week of work and he won't get paid? Are there people idiots! Damn.

I think (and I'm not blaming Vox Populi for this) that the title of the thread might be a little off. It wasn't his place of work, it was a "job" center - a term that seems to be as euphemistic as "correctional facility" - and it doesn't look like he burned the building down. I can't even tell if he actually started a fire. There's not a whole lot you can do with a cigarette lighter and just a plastic phone cable as kindling.

So "community service" is called "unpaid work" in the U.K.? If this was in the U.S. and he did this for any other reason than to simply get three hots and a cot - which obviously reflects a fucked up state of affairs - he'd be considered lucky to get just 40 hours community service.

[blake 3:17]

It seems like there are stories like this happening all over the fucking country at the minute. :(

A bunch of us have been joking about retiring in federal... Ain't gonna be no pensions, housing or old age security...

[blake 3:17]

What struck me about this story was that he was using one of the phones when he lost it -- not talking face to face with a staff person. They have done something similar at the unemployment offices here in my state.

I went to a job centre last week to make an appointment. Yeah, you can't make an appointment there.

You have to call a number from somewhere else to make an appointment to go back there. So the time spent discussing this with reception, I could've booked the appointment. But that's not allowed.

[Popular Front of Judea]

A bunch of us have been joking about retiring in federal... Ain't gonna be no pensions, housing or old age security...

If you want to recruit a group that has nothing to lose seek out unemployed forty-somethings ...

[Comrade Jacob]

I think (and I'm not blaming Vox Populi for this) that the title of the thread might be a little off. It wasn't his place of work, it was a "job" center -

Yeah, I noticed that, it's been edited after I re-read the whole thing.

[helot]

So "community service" is called "unpaid work" in the U.K.? If this was in the U.S. and he did this for any other reason than to simply get three hots and a cot - which obviously reflects a fucked up state of affairs - he'd be considered lucky to get just 40 hours community service.

He's at risk of more forced unpaid work due to being unemployed. We live in a weird place where the unemployed can actually get forced to work for free for longer than people who have been convicted of a crime. I'd imagine after this his job centre will send him on a 4 week "placement" for 30 hours a week as a disciplinary measure claiming he lacks "work discipline".

[Popular Front of Judea]

He's at risk of more forced unpaid work due to being unemployed. We live in a weird place where the unemployed can actually get forced to work for free for longer than people who have been convicted of a crime. I'd imagine after this his job centre will send him on a 4 week "placement" for 30 hours a week as a disciplinary measure claiming he lacks [b]"work discipline"[b].

Damn if that doesn't sound downright Victorian. So ideologically pointless. Where are they going to place him? No sane employer will want a person who attempts to set the workplace on fire -- free or not.

[Sea]

Damn if that doesn't sound downright Victorian. So ideologically pointless. Where are they going to place him? No sane employer will want a person who attempts to set the workplace on fire -- free or not.Clearly they will have to find an insane employer.