Cells reprogramed in living mice

[Os Cangaceiros]

Been meaning to post about this, pretty interesting: http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2013/09/cells-reprogrammed-living-mice

[Skyhilist]

Messes with genetics a bit much in my opinion. There's a reason we evolved the way we did over hundreds of millions of years. I don't think we should be trying to undermine that reason by thinking we know better than hundreds of millions of years of evolution and act like it's ok to just reprogram cells without any repercussions.

Also, obviously such technology would not be used for the benefit of mice, but for humans. Seems like it'd make more sense to study how it works in humans then.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Let the reprogramming begin, I say!

[Red_Banner]

"Don't you see the danger, John, inherent in what you're doing here? Genetic power is the most awesome force the planet's ever seen, but you wield it like a kid that's found his dad's gun."-Ian Malcom

[Os Cangaceiros]

Damn, I wouldn't have thought that a prospective way to treat, say, damaged heart tissue in the future would turn into worries about Jurrasic Park and Gattaca...

[Skyhilist]

If that's all it's used for then ok fine. I have my doubts that the ruling class wont find some way to capitalize on this though and turn it in to much more than that -- turn it in to something that really could be dangerous that is.

Whenever the ruling class come to understand new science they always use it to try to kill people or fuck something up.

[Red Commissar]

I posted a similar thread here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/stem-cells-grown-t183253/index.html), this is good for prospects of stem cell research. Scientists have been able to reprogram cells in culture (iPS, induced pluripotent stem cell) but in situ- the organism itself? This is a good advance, because while you can reprogram a cell in culture, there's an added difficulty reintroducing it back into the organism you took it from, much less a completely different one.


Messes with genetics a bit much in my opinion. There's a reason we evolved the way we did over hundreds of millions of years. I don't think we should be trying to undermine that reason by thinking we know better than hundreds of millions of years of evolution and act like it's ok to just reprogram cells without any repercussions.


I can see where you are coming from, but the impetus for stem cell research has been less because of a gattaca like thing where we are enhancing ourselves (which would bring about more stratification under a capitalist system), but rather to restore or repair damaged/malfunctioning parts of the body- say damaged heart tissue, restoring eye sight after some sort of degeneration, fixing problems from nervous system damage, I don't think this conflicts with the idea that we're interfering with the order of things- the point of medicine is to try and counteract maladies that otherwise would run their course in a person.

We've had some experiments on humans already to this end to answer your last point (albeit in a broader sense]- a trial in the UK concerning nervous system damage as a result of a stroke has seen some promising results (http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/05May/Pages/Stem-cell-stroke-treatment-trial-results-show-promise.aspx). This is what we are hoping this will be used for.

If this helps to alleviate suffering of people who were afflicted with conditions of no fault to their own, then there isn't a problem for me. Gene modification can have the potential to bring about more unsavory aspects, but as far as I'm concerned techniques like this are going to be applied to a different end. Something like this, if they manage to get it work, would be a good extension of iPS and help push back against the FUD by some groups who kicked up fear over embryonic stem cells as an unethical practice. iPS has already become the primary source of stem cell research and being able to do it within an organism would be a good option to have in addition to the other techniques suggested.

That being said there's still a long way to go. Getting a reprogrammed cell to differentiate and operate alongside normal cells, for it to be integrated with the rest of the body's numerous connections, to in time displace damaged cells- this is where the problem comes in and where more research would be necessary.

Capitalists misuse everything, but if we go on that standard we'd might as well disown anything that has been created in the past two centuries.

[Skyhilist]

I understand the intention isn't to use it in a Gattica type way. I just think that we must be very careful that it doesn't turn into something like that if we're going to pursue this as the preferred method of treating things.

Also, I wouldn't say that whether or not the ruling class will try to misuse something should be the basis for whether we should pursue something. What we do need to consider is how serious the consequences will be if the ruling class do manage to misuse something like this. In my opinion the misuse of this has the potential to inflict much more harm than the misuse of most other things.

[Red Commissar]

Also, I wouldn't say that whether or not the ruling class will try to misuse something should be the basis for whether we should pursue something. What we do need to consider is how serious the consequences will be if the ruling class do manage to misuse something like this. In my opinion the misuse of this has the potential to inflict much more harm than the misuse of most other things.

I understand that, but let me present these examples-

We could've have misused vaccines to infect millions if not billions of people with a disease that wasn't quite as dormant as we thought, or still virulent even from the fragments of it. The fear of vaccination and its possible effects still gets a lot of people unsure, and is in part what drives a lot of anti-vaccination movements because they are worried about what it can possibly do.

Research into agricultural science has helped with food output, but at the same time the drive towards forming anti-pesticides and cure for plant diseases split off into chemical weapons warfare, be it sarin gas, VX, or agent orange. It's weird when you see for instance a mustard seed being a symbol of peace (as best I can understand it, a religious root) but it is the inspiration for chemical weapons bearing the same name due to its properties, though not necessarily as an ingredient.

And along those lines, has allowed for corporations to squeeze out agricultural-dependent countries by copyrighting GMOs (and this ignoring effects a GMO might have on a biosphere). There are plenty of arguments on both sides that GMO could help with hunger, but at the same time further domination by corporate companies over the lives of people.

Research into chemistry and physics helped unlock possible sources of energy and even some medical applications with radioactive tagging and other imaging techniques. Of course, on the other hand, it has also brought to the world nuclear weapons and depleted uranium weapons that have wrecked Iraq.

Aeronautics has helped to link the world together, but it's been used in many different warfare applications. A rocket that delivered man to space also carried ordinances into the homes of people.

I don't really see how this particular case is any different from above. When we are at the frontier of discovery everything else by comparison will end up looking to be more less dangerous and controversial. At any stage of research we'll have this dilemma- how do we ensure science as a tool for betterment of people, rather than to merely advance the interests of the ruling class? Honestly, at this day and stage, I don't see this was a solvable problem unless capitalism is removed, but that's its own set of challenges that will have effects on many fields besides scientific research.

For the record I am myself a bit skeptical of transhumanist predictions of what science can do for the population- I don't think many of these can be sold as a benefit to all unless we move beyond a system that concentrates power in the hands of a few (and I can definitely see how healthcare access can solidify class divisions). At the same time though, we can't hand wave their possibilities aside.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Yeah, medical advances that have taken place firmly on the bedrock of capitalist society have benefited some of the world's poorest people, although obviously in very unequal ways

[Skyhilist]

Yeah good points. This one is probably worth pursuing if it treats illnesses better than the ways we have to treat them now -- I just hope it doesn't get out of hand is all.