What are freemasons?

[Remus Bleys]

What are freemasons?

[Sea]

They're an irrelevant exclusive club / lodge with lots of silly rituals that old conservative men join to feel that they're a part of something. They have some pretty reactionary and stupid rules (no girls allowed, etc).

That said, what are the Illuminati?

[Remus Bleys]

They're an irrelevant exclusive club / lodge with lots of silly rituals that old conservative men join to feel that they're a part of something. They have some pretty reactionary and stupid rules (no girls allowed, etc).
Then why did so many countries ban/persecute them?

[Red_Banner]

Continental(mainland Europe) free masonry is different from the Anglo-Scot-American one.


Like with the Continental one, you are allowed to be irreligious and you can discuss polotics at lodges.

[Remus Bleys]

Continental(mainland Europe) free masonry is different from the Anglo-Scot-American one
I have no idea about either of the two.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

Modern freemasonry (at least in the South) is basically just a fraternity, only with old men (and occasional women, as their are now lodges that allow both male and female members). It's especially popular with African Americans in the South.

The only primary rules for joining is that (with many lodges) you have to be male and to acknowledge some sort of deity.....but in recent years the last guideline has been made so intentionally vague that, as long as you believe in some sort of vitalism you're eligible.

And to get the other myths out of the way:

No, they do not worship Satan and/or Baphoment
No, they do not ritually sacrifice infants during their rituals
No, they do not secretly rule the world
No, they do not assassinate people who reveal their secrets
No, they were not invented by the Catholic Church as a secret Papist plot to rule the world
No, they are not secret shape-shifting reptilians involved in a massive conspiracy that is centuries in the making.

Did I leave any out?

[Skyhilist]

Modern freemasonry (at least in the South) is basically just a fraternity, only with old men (and occasional women, as their are now lodges that allow both male and female members). It's especially popular with African Americans in the South.

The only primary rules for joining is that (with many lodges) you have to be male and to acknowledge some sort of deity.....but in recent years the last guideline has been made so intentionally vague that, as long as you believe in some sort of vitalism you're eligible.

And to get the other myths out of the way:

No, they do not worship Satan and/or Baphoment
No, they do not ritually sacrifice infants during their rituals
No, they do not secretly rule the world
No, they do not assassinate people who reveal their secrets
No, they were not invented by the Catholic Church as a secret Papist plot to rule the world
No, they are not secret shape-shifting reptilians involved in a massive conspiracy that is centuries in the making.

Did I leave any out?


Aha, you didn't mention 9/11! Clearly they must be responsible then for 9/11!

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

What are freemasons?

A bunch of old bourgy white dudes who enjoy a good orgy and circle jerk every now and again with a little hocus pocus thrown in here and there.

[bcbm]

That said, what are the Illuminati?


http://overthrowingilluminati.wordpress.com/2013/08/07/how-to-overthrow-the-illuminati/

[Os Cangaceiros]

I used to like reading conspiracy books, and from what I've read of them, they originate in the Knight's Templar order who lived high off the hog during the Crusades. After the Crusades they were rich and a lot of the other people in their countries were not-so-rich (including even the nobility), so there was a brutal purge of the KT (big gub'mint looters, even in that era), esp. in France where they were all hunted down and horribly mutilated/burned alive/torn limb-from-limb by wild horse, or something like that.

But somehow the Freemasons came about out of all that. Oh, and IIRC some Templars stole the national treasury of some medieval nation and sailed with it to Iceland.

But nowadays they're just another charitable organization with dumb ritual like the Elks, Rotary Club etc. LOL

[synthesis]

I kind of get the impression that anti-Freemasonry started out as a form of anti-secularism in the context of the bourgeoisie coming to conflict with the aristocracy and clerical class, sort of like the origins of the hysteria surrounding the historical Illuminati.

[Red Commissar]

Nations that proscribed freemasonry usually did it under a broader push to ban "secret societies", which was a lightning rod for populist movements which perceived that ultimately said organizations were influencing if not controlling the country with no accountability to voters or were pursuing plots against the state, or maybe just giving one another kickbacks and exclusive benefits.

The Freemason system is split broadly into two systems. The continental system is based out of France and had lodges in western Europe, more specifically catholic countries (as such, it is the predominant group in former French and Spanish colonies), and was more open to politics with no requirement on belief in a higher power (which in turn attracted some secularists to the group). The Anglo-American system has the stipulation on belief in a higher power and were not usually *too* associated with being at the forefront of political organization. There are also some other differences when it comes down to who membership is open to, the structure of ranks (and how to attain them), the extent of the lodge's involvement in the community, etc.

In the early years of the United States, Freemason membership wasn't uncommon among politicians, especially those who considered themselves to be influenced from enlightenment-era political philosophy, particularly rosy readings of liberalism. Apparently the fear of Freemason influence in the government was big enough to promote the creation of a short-lived "Anti-Masonic" party in the 1820s-1830s, influenced by the disappearance of a prominent anti-Mason critic in New York state.

In Latin America, you had some instances where competing lodges in effect became parties onto themselves. Before Santa Anna's initial rise to power in Mexico, the young Mexican republic's parties basically were extensions of the country's lodges which had disagreements over centralization and federalization, coupled with anti-clerical sentiments. As such anti-mason sentiment there was influenced both by blaming them for causing Mexican instability for much of that century and playing to appeal of religion among the populace.

In Europe, freemasonry was associated with republicans, especially those with an anti-clerical outlook (this seemed mostly the case in France, Spain, and Italy). They were subsequently blamed over failings of the Republican system or at least introducing dangerous values in countries which allowed for a liberal party to stand for election. They were cast as being separate from the populace if not outright elitist, only interested in implementing their own system.

Like Brandon highlighted the specific reason for anti-Freemasonry varied by country, but they all usually had a common thread that the members were part of a conspiracy that had political ambitions, subtly guiding world events to some ultimate end goal of their ideal "enlightened" utopia. These would conflict many times, where the Catholic Church would claim Freemasonry is an atheist plot against its institutions, while citizens of a non-catholic country would claim that Freemasonry was a papal fifth column. Jews seemed to get wrapped up in this alot too by claiming the Freemasons are in fact part of a Jewish NWO plot (which Hitler apparently held and was echoed bizarrely by a gambit of groups to this day). And then it goes into more bizarre territories involving occult practices and aliens.

As for the Illuminati, it was a group founded along similar lines (broadly speaking, liberal enlightenment values and secularism), though unlike the Freemasons it was squashed out when it was founded. Some groups claim to be their successors, conspiracies seem to revolve around the Illumanti being some sort of high council which controls all the Freemason lodges.

Nowadays

[Sasha]

Then why did so many countries ban/persecute them?


the problem with secret societies is that they are secret, they can, and have, gone off the tracks (just think of the klan) which in the case of the masons is the the small bit of truth at the base of all the conspiracy crap.
Example in point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due

[bcbm]

they can, and have, gone off the tracks (just think of the klan)

wait, what?

[Red Flag Waver]

Freemasons were involved in the Paris Commune. I read that a bunch of them were mowed down by the Versailles forces after trying to negotiate for peace.

Maybe someone else can say more about this?

[Jimmie Higgins]

Then why did so many countries ban/persecute them?I don't know a whole lot about this, but in the US anyway there was a sort of populist/reactionary movement against both immigration and freemasonary. I'd guess that this movement was spawned out of economic anexieties of the pre-civil war era and the obsession with a secret society of powerful people in their own sect was viewed with some paranoia by middleing property holders. The inequalities of capitalism is harder to "see" and pinpoint (I mean it's easier to imagine an illuminati than to try and organize against basically invisible social relations... especially if you are a small capitalist who utilizes those same relations) and so there's often fear of secret economic eliete casts that undermine "fair economic dealings" and democracy.

[Sasha]

wait, what?

Secret societies in general, like for example the Klan or P2, can become dangerous to the state, hence why some countries banned them.

[#FF0000]

Secret societies in general, like for example the Klan or P2, can become dangerous to the state, hence why some countries banned them.

Well, the Klan started as a literal insurgent group in the South, so.

[synthesis]

I don't really see how P2 (which I was pretty interested in during high school) plays into any narrative besides that of the usual scandals of the finance aristocracy. Attributing some sort of unique or discrete quality (besides discreetness) to the activities of "secret societies" in capitalist society strikes me as buying into a fundamentally right-wing narrative which obscures the primacy of the relationship of these small (in number) manipulators of capital to the means of production.

[Consistent.Surprise]

Basics of the Masonic Temple in the US: yes, closed membership. There are 2 different ones (Anglo & African American. Anglo is open to Asians & Latinos). There are the Masons, Eastern Star, De Molay, Rainbow, & Job's Daughters. Yes, the rituals are to be kept secret but you should be able to find them at the Library of Congress (really nothing thrilling. Silly hand signs & specific phrases). They are a Christian organization (used to be anti-catholic like the KKK). A lot of the Masons I know were hard workers who joined a fraternal order due to friends or family & their religious views. Through philanthropic events, yes, political people have flourished.

Really, in the US it's a club for Christians to really do silly ritual ceremonies (& they're nothing to write home about) & do weird handshakes & feel like you're part of a group.

I was in Rainbow for 3 years. Still have my ritual book.

[Thirsty Crow]

They're an irrelevant exclusive club / lodge with lots of silly rituals that old conservative men join to feel that they're a part of something. They have some pretty reactionary and stupid rules (no girls allowed, etc).

That said, what are the Illuminati?
They're not at all exclusive, or to be more precise, it depends on the country. For instance, here in Croatia they'd pretty much accept anyone (my information comes from a good friend of mine who had contact with a specific lodge). They function as a social club with the aim of a) personal growth and b) humanitarian actions. There's no policy of exclusion of women or any other group (yes, women are welcome).

Of course, the point a) involves rituals which are in this case pretty much stripped down of any definite religious content.

Though, I should say that this lodge is considered as in the tradition of the breakaway French rite, not the Scottish rite (which indeed has been and to my knowledge is apolitical and pretty much socially conservative). The former has historically been centered on taking the ideas of liberty, equality and fraternity quite seriously.