"Fuck tha police. Burn the banks."

[Popular Front of Judea]

I have been put on notice that my posts are not sufficiently revolutionary. I am told that they are indistinguishable from those of left liberal, social democratic wankers. I don't want to exiled to the Opposing Ideology limbo. So I need to punch the revolutionary rhetoric up. After all it's not what you do -- sit in front of a computer in your parents basement, Mountain Dew in hand -- but what you say that ultimately matters in RevLeft.

So does anyone have any suitable revolutionary copypasta that I can drop in my posts to give them that revolutionary zing? It doesn't have to have any connection to objective conditions, level of consciousness etc., of course. Give me something that will make the bourgeoisie -- and parents everywhere -- tremble.

[d3crypt]

Advocating violence against fascists is a good start.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

Just end every post with 'To the Barricades!'.

[Popular Front of Judea]

Put "Smash Golden Dawn! To The Barricades!" in my signature. Got it. Thanks.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Throw around the word petty/petite-bourgoeis a lot.

[synthesis]

I have been put on notice that my posts are not sufficiently revolutionary. I am told that they are indistinguishable from those of left liberal, social democratic wankers. I don't want to exiled to the Opposing Ideology limbo. So I need to punch the revolutionary rhetoric up. After all it's not what you do -- sit in front of a computer in your parents basement, Mountain Dew in hand -- but what you say that ultimately matters in RevLeft.

So does anyone have any suitable revolutionary copypasta that I can drop in my posts to give them that revolutionary zing? It doesn't have to have any connection to objective conditions, level of consciousness etc., of course. Give me something that will make the bourgeoisie -- and parents everywhere -- tremble.

This is a pretty spineless way of evading my criticism of your political positions and resultant behavior here. I think you're a left-liberal because I haven't seen any arguments from you that would differentiate you from a left-liberal - and you don't even attempt to debate this point when I bring it up - but more importantly I think OI would be a good place for you, not because of any personal problem I have with you, but because when any revolutionary positions do come up, you do nothing but ridicule those positions and otherwise refuse to engage with them on anything but their level of immediate effectiveness - this thread being a case in point. We have OI for exactly these kinds of reasons.

[Remus Bleys]

Don't oi popular front! This guy is awesome.

[Popular Front of Judea]

This is a pretty spineless way of evading my criticism of your political positions and resultant behavior here. I think you're a left-liberal because I haven't seen any arguments from you that would differentiate you from a left-liberal - and you don't even attempt to debate this point when I bring it up - but more importantly I think OI would be a good place for you, not because of any personal problem I have with you, but because when any revolutionary positions do come up, you do nothing but ridicule those positions and otherwise refuse to engage with them on anything but their level of immediate effectiveness - this thread being a case in point. We have OI for exactly these kinds of reasons.

Interesting you don't level this charge or suggest banishment to OI when it comes to other members that are say members of the CWI/SALT. Of course most of them have posts in the thousands and often are moderators. Principle has its limits, huh.

[synthesis]

Don't oi popular front! This guy is awesome.

I would love it if PB&J came to "see the light," to put it in the most condescending way possible. Getting him restricted is not in any way a priority of mine - I think he misinterpreted something I said and it proceeded from there, and to my knowledge I'm the only person who has brought up restricting him. In any case, I just feel compelled to address this passive-aggressive sniping when I see it.

[synthesis]

Interesting you don't level this charge or suggest banishment to OI when it comes to other members that are say members of the CWI/SALT. Of course most of them have posts in the thousands and often are moderators. Principle has its limits, huh.

I don't think you've been here long enough to make this claim, and I'm not sure what the CWI, being Trotskyists, have to do with this. The fact that you bring this up leads me to believe that we have a fundamental misunderstanding about what the issues are with your politics and behavior here. I should emphasize that I don't think restriction should be used as punishment or to settle personal vendettas; it should be used to keep the rest of the board free from having to debate the same openly anti-revolutionary rhetoric over and over again.

[adipocere]

Popular Front should not be confined to OI. What a bizarre thing to say. Being openly disdainful of some of the ultra-left reactionary crap that goes on here doesn't make him counter-revolutionary. wtf...
There are certainly members here that I consider outright contra - admins, in particular, who unabashedly astroturf imperialist bullshit here and other members whose political insight is based on half-formed impressions from tabloid media. Nobody wants to confine them to OI.


Interesting you don't level this charge or suggest banishment to OI when it comes to other members that are say members of the CWI/SALT. my thoughts exactly. Oh wait, I'm in CPUSA, I can't say that. :lol:

[synthesis]

I would stress that someone's anti-revolutionary political positions are only half of the equation of restriction; the other half is their proclivity to disrupt every discussion in which it is possible to inject said anti-revolutionary positions.

[adipocere]

I would stress that someone's anti-revolutionary political positions are only half of the equation of restriction; the other half is their proclivity to disrupt every discussion in which it is possible to inject said anti-revolutionary positions.

I know what you're talking about in regards to Popular Front - but I disagree that his posts are disruptive. I think he makes valid observations, he just does so in a smart-ass way that, from what I have seen, is usually justified.

[Taters]

After all it's not what you do -- sit in front of a computer in your parents basement, Mountain Dew in hand -- but what you say that ultimately matters in RevLeft.

I prefer the refreshing, smooth taste of an ice cold Coca Cola™.

What is the point of this thread, PFJ? So that you can be showered with attention? Did the internet make you mad again?

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Kill people, burn shit, fuck school.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

think OI would be a good place for you, not because of any personal problem I have with you, but because when any revolutionary positions do come up, you do nothing but ridicule those positions and otherwise refuse to engage with them on anything but their level of immediate effectiveness - this thread being a case in point. We have OI for exactly these kinds of reasons.

First of all, it's pretty unprincipled to invoke the opposing ideologies in a debate. It simply isn't in the spirit of comradeship to threaten other members with restriction when they disagree with you expectually considering that with enough hyperbole it is a possible that such a thing could be the end result of any straw mans thrown his way.

However, as for the objections the "ultra-left" has for your politics. Well, as an "ultra-left" according to you (even though actual ultra-lefts probably cringe at me using that term in that way)when you put forth opinions that many of us here would assign to the left-wing of capital, well then obviously there is a deep void in both praxis and theory that led us to believe that you aren't a revolutionary communist (I suppose invoking the term "revolutionary" as a political identity within the present context is flawed, but I think you know what I mean) or at least while you might be a communist in the abstract your politics are that of a social democrat. The issue here isn't a matter of sectarianism, it's an issue of the unity of theory and praxis, that is to say, does your political practice advcance the cause of worker's self emancipation, or are the reform and electoral goals strategic rather than tactical and represent ends within themselves rather than means to advance the class struggle.

[#FF0000]

hey what you do is always more important than what you say but if your heart doesn't sing "fuck tha police" then i have some bad news

[synthesis]

However, as for the objections the "ultra-left" has for your politics. Well, as an "ultra-left" according to you (even though actual ultra-lefts probably cringe at me using that term in that way)when you put forth opinions that many of us here would assign to the left-wing of capital, well then obviously there is a deep void in both praxis and theory that led us to believe that you aren't a revolutionary communist (I suppose invoking the term "revolutionary" as a political identity within the present context is flawed, but I think you know what I mean) or at least while you might be a communist in the abstract your politics are that of a social democrat. The issue here isn't a matter of sectarianism, it's an issue of the unity of theory and praxis, that is to say, does your political practice advcance the cause of worker's self emancipation, or are the reform and electoral goals strategic rather than tactical and represent ends within themselves rather than means to advance the class struggle.

Is this addressed to me or him? If it's to me, I agree with this part of your post and want to note that I'm the one being accused of "ultra-leftism" here.


First of all, it's pretty unprincipled to invoke the opposing ideologies in a debate. It simply isn't in the spirit of comradeship to threaten other members with restriction when they disagree with you expectually considering that with enough hyperbole it is a possible that such a thing could be the end result of any straw mans thrown his way.

I most certainly did not threaten him with restriction. In case anybody's actually interested, here's the exchange that has led PB&J to believe that I'm out to get his first-born child:


"Doing away with the conditions which engender crime". Damn why didn't I think of that. Looking at what passes for deep thought on this forum I am so glad that the revolution is not occurring any time soon.


Damn, dude. Way to make a case for your own restriction.

Maybe you missed it, but we are the revolutionary left. There is no reason for us to exist unless we are expressing revolutionary theory.

Leave reformism to the reformists.


No argument here. If you want revolutionary theory -- unsullied by any contact with reality -- Revleft is your go to place.

I also want it noted for the record that the only time I have addressed the issue of restriction since then is when he does this sort of passive-aggressive sniping based on this exchange. In my mind, I said I thought he would be restricted, and I was about to say that I didn't think he should be restricted, but that just wouldn't have been honest of me, given my opinion on his political positions and the way in which he expresses them here.

[#FF0000]

Interesting you don't level this charge or suggest banishment to OI when it comes to other members that are say members of the CWI/SALT. Of course most of them have posts in the thousands and often are moderators. Principle has its limits, huh.

hey you do behave pretty childishly in discussion, ridiculing people who disagree with you without actually directly responding to anything, let alone actually elaborating on what you actually believe.

don't think u should be in OI though.

just think you should be less of a self-righteous internet crybaby

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Is this addressed to me or him? If it's to me, I agree with this part of your post and want to note that I'm the one being accused of "ultra-leftism" here.



I should have made it clear, I'm responding to this claim that ultra lefts are being "sectarian" against him.

[d3crypt]

Ok i got a good one here. Fuck the police, fuck the state, and fuck the bourgeoisie and their private property!

[#FF0000]

Ok i got a good one here. Fuck the police, fuck the state, and fuck the bourgeoisie and their private property!

Nah he's not serious in this thread -- just whining (though he does accidentally bring up a neat point about these lil things we have and do and say to signify "rev cred" without actually doing anything).

[Popular Front of Judea]

Nah he's not serious in this thread -- just whining (though he does accidentally bring up a neat point about these lil things we have and do and say to signify "rev cred" without actually doing anything).

I am not serious? I am wounded to the core! You ultra-leftist meanie!

[Popular Front of Judea]

I prefer the refreshing, smooth taste of an ice cold Coca Cola™.

Coca Cola is petit bourgeois. Faygo is the proletarian choice.

[Sasha]

Juggolos get auto-restricted, if you ever want to make it to the BA its club-mate and microbrew beers all the way. If your an trot red-wine is acceptable too.

[d3crypt]

I am not serious? I am wounded to the core! You ultra-leftist meanie!

Don't use ultra-leftist as an insult. I consider myself ultra-leftist.

[Sasha]

Also, inject "comrade" in your language like a smurf smurfs...

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Throw around the word petty/petite-bourgoeis a lot.

Dammit, that's not how French works.

Petite Bourgeoisie (feminine)
Petit Bourgeois (masculine)

Fuck's sake.


Juggolos get auto-restricted, if you ever want to make it to the BA its club-mate and microbrew beers all the way. If your an trot red-wine is acceptable too.

Fuck you, and your anti-Juggalo opportunism. (http://anoki.wikispaces.com/The+Juggatariat)

[o well this is ok I guess]

I guess there's a point to be made here that certain members are part of arguably soc dem organizations that talk more than they walk (the organizations, that is).
But hey that's just reason to keep PFJ on the main board
er, if it weren't for the cop sympathies and general disdain for the board members as a whole

microbrew beers
What are microbrews like on your side of the atlantic

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Dammit, that's not how French works.

Petite Bourgeosie (feminine)
Petit Bourgeois (masculine)

Fuck's sake.


Uhh...http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petite_bourgeoisie

Petite bourgeoisie (French pronunciation:*​[pətit buʁʒwazi]), also petty bourgeoisie (literally small bourgeoisie), is a French term (sometimes derogatory) referring to a social class comprising semi-autonomous peasantry and small-scale merchants whose politico-economic ideological stance is determined by reflecting that of a haute (high) bourgeoisie, with which the petite bourgeoisie seeks to identify itself, and whose bourgeois morality it strives to imitate.
So maybe that's not how French works but it's only been used in such a way for who knows how long.

[Popular Front of Judea]

On a more serious note:

1) My posts tend to be short quips because I find writing paragraphs and paragraphs of explication difficult. It has been over 20 years since I have been in a classroom. I have done some type of manual labor most of my working life. I have found little call for writing reports. I am also a late arrival to the internet.

2) My political program is still in formation. I know what is no longer relevant to the times we live in. What we need to replace it I am not so certain. I am finding the analysis coming from the small post-Maoist organization League of Revolutionaries for New America to be the most persuasive. The irony of this is deep. I don't know where I am going to go with it. They are not exactly a flourishing organization that I can see judging from their website.

3) As for as being a cop sympathizer: My stepfather was a violently abusive alcoholic. My childhood Christmas memories include early on a Christmas morning running through the snow in my bare feet to the neighbors to ask them to call the police because he was assaulting my mother. He had kicked the door in and ripped the phone off the wall. Hence my running through the snow to the neighbors. As a scared child I was quite relieved to see the arrival of the paramilitary arm of the bourgeoisie. There are times that calling the cops is the only sane option. If this makes me a cop sympathizer so be it.

If you want engage in revolutionary agitation fine. Just don't get in the way of those of us that are responsible for the safety of others.

4) I don't suffer fools gladly. Guilty as charged.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Uhh...http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petite_bourgeoisie

So maybe that's not how French works but it's only been used in such a way for who knows how long.

Nah. It just changes to the feminine gender when it's made plural.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Nah. It just changes to the feminine gender when it's made plural.
Was there supposed to be an ie at the end for me to be correct or something? Fuck it, I'm so confused now and can't find the energy to care.

[#FF0000]

On a more serious note:

1) My posts tend to be short quips because I find writing paragraphs and paragraphs of explication difficult.

Same. Hard to dredge up care for internet arguments sometimes.


3) As for as being a cop sympathizer: My stepfather was a violently abusive alcoholic. My childhood Christmas memories include early on a Christmas morning running through the snow in my bare feet to the neighbors to ask them to call the police because he was assaulting my mother. He had kicked the door in and ripped the phone off the wall. Hence my running through the snow to the neighbors. As a scared child I was quite relieved to see the arrival of the paramilitary arm of the bourgeoisie. There are times that calling the cops is the only sane option. If this makes me a cop sympathizer so be it.

Yeah I can see where you're going with this but this doesn't mean one can't be conscious of the role police play in society. I was hella glad when the cops I called out of desperation decided to pick up my friend instead of gun him down in the street as they are wont to do when he was wandering in a fugue while carrying a broken bottle. I'm very happy that my friends who work in security aren't on the streets anymore. That doesn't mean, however, that I can't recognize the role police play in society or approve of my friend's career choice (I regard it the same as joining a gang or dealing -- a mistake that doesn't necessarily make on a bad person; but a mistake all the same).



If you want engage in revolutionary agitation fine. Just don't get in the way of those of us that are responsible for the safety of others.

Your safety is not a cop's primary concern. It is incidental.

[synthesis]

On a more serious note:

This is probably the most extensive description of your actual views that you've given so far. Keep it up (really).

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

1) My posts tend to be short quips because I find writing paragraphs and paragraphs of explication difficult. It has been over 20 years since I have been in a classroom. I have done some type of manual labor most of my working life. I have found little call for writing reports. I am also a late arrival to the internet.

I don't think anyone has a problem with short posts, assuming they have some sort of political content. As far as I can tell, your posts usually do have political content, but some of them are passive-aggressive venting at people who criticise your politics.


2) My political program is still in formation. I know what is no longer relevant to the times we live in. What we need to replace it I am not so certain. I am finding the analysis coming from the small post-Maoist organization League of Revolutionaries for New America to be the most persuasive. The irony of this is deep. I don't know where I am going to go with it. They are not exactly a flourishing organization that I can see judging from their website.

Alright, but you still haven't told us much about your politics. I mean, the vague notion that certain parts of the socialist programme are "no longer relevant" is something figures from Negri to Harrington would agree on.

I have read a few of your posts, and you often come off as workerist and somewhat sympathetic to reformism. I don't know if that's accurate, though.


3) As for as being a cop sympathizer: My stepfather was a violently abusive alcoholic. My childhood Christmas memories include early on a Christmas morning running through the snow in my bare feet to the neighbors to ask them to call the police because he was assaulting my mother. He had kicked the door in and ripped the phone off the wall. Hence my running through the snow to the neighbors. As a scared child I was quite relieved to see the arrival of the paramilitary arm of the bourgeoisie. There are times that calling the cops is the only sane option. If this makes me a cop sympathizer so be it.

If you want engage in revolutionary agitation fine. Just don't get in the way of those of us that are responsible for the safety of others.

I'm glad things worked out for your mother and you, but I could tell you stories and stories about abused women being ignored by the police until their scumbag boyfriends/husbands killed them. Or gay people being attacked by the police for reporting a homophobic attack. The point is that the police protect members of the proletariat only if their primary duty, the preservation of the bourgeois state, necessitates that.

I mean, sure, if you see a woman being abused, by all means call the police on the off chance that they'll do something. But don't perpetuate the illusion that the police is on the side of the workers, or even worse, that they are workers. Get cops out of the unions, even when the bourgeois state screams about organised crime, get them out of schools, get them out of everywhere they have a standing presence. And for the love of Lenin's bald spot, don't support police when they're striking for even greater powers to summarily beat up socialists and workers.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Nah. It just changes to the feminine gender when it's made plural.

Thanks for having my back on this (the issue being petit / petite). It's not singular/plural though, it's a noun (bourgeoisie, as in the class of people) and an adjective (as in "Bourgeois running dog!").

Sorry for derailing the thread about this. Maybe if I become practice forum moderator I can make a grammar sticky.
Not that my own is anywhere near perfect, obviously.

I mean, my original post was made in jest, 'cos that seemed to be where this thread was headed.

[o well this is ok I guess]

Bro left opposition to police is opposition to police as a institution before it's opposition to police individually.
I mean, almost all cops I've met were dicks, and I assume the rest of the board has the same experience, but yea there's probably a few good stories here and there about the cops (like yours). but before that cops are, as you say, the "paramilitary arm of the bourgeoisie".
I mean it's cool if you like the cops that helped you out, but that's not the point. The point is that you seem to have sympathy with cops as an institution.

[Popular Front of Judea]

Bro left opposition to police is opposition to police as a institution before it's opposition to police individually.
I mean, almost all cops I've met were dicks, and I assume the rest of the board has the same experience, but yea there's probably a few good stories here and there about the cops (like yours). but before that cops are, as you say, the "paramilitary arm of the bourgeoisie".
I mean it's cool if you like the cops that helped you out, but that's not the point. The point is that you seem to have sympathy with cops as an institution.

Care to point to an example of that? An absence of wishful thinking is not "sympathy with cops as an institution".

[#FF0000]

Care to point to an example of that?

An example of what, exactly?


An absence of wishful thinking is not "sympathy with cops as an institution".

What do you mean by this, exactly (this is what we're talkin about, dogg. What is wishful thinking and why is it wishful thinking.)

[Ele'ill]

fuck 'microbrews' what is that microwaveable beer the word is 'craft' beer. Craft brews are bomb and bleed my paychecks like multiple gunshot wounds

[Leftsolidarity]

What the fuck is the point of this thread?

Thread closed.