View Full Version : What do you consider a state?
d3crypt
19th September 2013, 02:57
What would fit the definition of a state in your opinion?
Remus Bleys
19th September 2013, 03:09
“The state is, therefore, by no means a power forced on society from without; just as little is it 'the reality of the ethical idea', 'the image and reality of reason', as Hegel maintains. Rather, it is a product of society at a certain stage of development; it is the admission that this society has become entangled in an insoluble contradiction with itself, that it has split into irreconcilable antagonisms which it is powerless to dispel. But in order that these antagonisms, these classes with conflicting economic interests, might not consume themselves and society in fruitless struggle, it became necessary to have a power, seemingly standing above society, that would alleviate the conflict and keep it within the bounds of 'order'; and this power, arisen out of society but placing itself above it, and alienating itself more and more from it, is the state." ~ Engels.
ChrisK
19th September 2013, 10:01
OOOOHHHHH! This is a deceptively simple question. I'm going to be mean and recommend that you read Hal Draper's fantastic book Karl Marx's Theory of Revolution I: The State and Bureaucracy. In this book he makes a strong case for state's evolving based on the class distinctions of a society and shows how the capitalists have to basically outsource political rule through "democracy". Its really a good read. Long though.
Brotto Rühle
19th September 2013, 14:30
There's a great article by David Adam titled "Karl Marx and the State". I think it'll help you out, and rather than me just repeat it. Here's the link:
Karl Marx and the State by David Adam (http://libcom.org/library/karl-marx-state)
Thirsty Crow
19th September 2013, 15:01
It is a particular network of hierarchically organized institutions, separate from society, as if superimposed on it, which can fulfill different roles, such as (class) repression (this was the basis of the "classical" Marxist approach, that the state is organized class repression, i.e. an organization of violent protection of existing relations of production and legal property rights), which is definitely important, but not the only one. There's also the ideological role (e.g. state media and education) and economic role (as it is clearly visible in times of crisis, the state is an active economic actor).
The former, organized class violence, is the basis for the Marxist insistence on characterizing the transitional revolutionary period as that which is governed by the workers' state.
JPSartre12
19th September 2013, 16:50
At the risk of being reductionist, the State is the hegemonic organ that arises out of irreconcilable class antagonisms. It is the tool used by one class to oppress another.
d3crypt
22nd September 2013, 09:24
Would you all consider a federation of workers councils and such to be a state?
Blake's Baby
22nd September 2013, 11:02
That depends what you mean. It might be, or it might not.
If it's in a class society - eg during the revolutionary process itself, which begins in capitalism - then yes it's a state; the workers' councils are an organ for the working class ('a class') to oppress the counter-revolutionary bourgeoisie ('another class') using the workers' militia, and control/organise production in a territory (to feed the population surely but also to organise the war against internal enemies trying to fight against the revolution, and external non-revolutionary territories).
If you mean after the revolution has been won, when there is no property and no classes - therefore the term workers' councils is actually inaccurate - then no, it wouldn't be a state. In Engels' phrase, 'the government of persons is replaced by the administration of things', and the state 'withers away', as the roots of the state (class society which in turn rests on private property) are destroyed.
d3crypt
22nd September 2013, 18:05
That pretty much answers my question.
Blake's Baby
22nd September 2013, 20:06
Really? You did say '...all...'. I reckon you have about another 8,999 opinions to canvas.
RedMaterialist
24th September 2013, 02:58
It's an armed gang used for class suppression. The last state is the dictatorship of the proletariat which suppresses the bourgeoisie.
Internationale
29th September 2013, 14:13
Here is the perfect definition of the state. The state, is a compulsory institution of force and aggression, that has the right to do what ever it wants, without knowing the effects of the people.
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