40% of Americans polled identify as either poor or working class

[Popular Front of Judea]

That's only 2% less than those that identify as 'middle class'. The days of America as an avowedly middle class country are passing.

Of course the news articles are focusing on the doubling of those who identify as poor -- both in the cited NBC/WSJ poll and last years General Social Survey poll. Interestingly in the article I link the number of people polled that identify as 'working class' has stayed virtually the same. I assume that people that once identified as middle class have (re)started calling themselves working class and former members of the working class are identifying as poor. (Hard to call yourself working class when you have no job...)

Poll: Number of Americans who self-identify as poor doubles in 15 years | PBS Newshour (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2013/09/poll-number-of-americans-who-self-identify-as-poor-doubles-in-15-years.html)

[Red_Banner]

What I get a kick out of is this idea of a "middle class".

How can people who make less than 100 thousand USD a year be in the middle when there are people that make hundreds of millions and billions?

[Bardo]

^Well, the reasoning most often used I think is the measurement of median and mean incomes in the US and is a flawed way to analyse income distribution. For example -

According to the 2010 US census, 48% of Americans earned $25k annually or less. That's statistically half of the US population. Those earning $25-50k made up around 27%, 12% earning $50-75k, 5% bringing in $75-100k, and 7% earning over $100k.

Now, it would appear that "middle class" would actually fall into the first category, which incidentally, would be the lowest working class salaries. If half of the population is making under $25k, the remaining incomes raise the median salary figures much higher, thus providing misleading median income statistics. The number of people bringing in over $75k alone raises the median income by 12%.

[Skyhilist]

What I get a kick out of is this idea of a "middle class".

How can people who make less than 100 thousand USD a year be in the middle when there are people that make hundreds of millions and billions?

Most people in America don't know how to use the two terms correctly is all.

The way my school teachers teach things they act like there's 3 classes: rich, middle, and poor. Most just teach the term "middle class" and don't make the distinction between working and middle class. So naturally, most people are going to consider themselves middle class. This doesn't mean that they don't understand where they are economically, it just means they're using words differently then we are because of what education systems and the media generally teach.

[LeninistRevolutionary]

Its as Marx predicted, the lower brackets of the bougeois will inevitabley begin to fall into the proletariat because the more powerful capitalists will push them down in their insatiable lust for wealth.

[Beeth]

Out of curiosity ... in the USA, how much do you need to make every month to live a relatively comfortable life - enough food, clothes, entertainment (xbox, tv, etc.), medical expenses, hanging out/dating, etc.?

[Bolshevik Sickle]

Out of curiosity ... in the USA, how much do you need to make every month to live a relatively comfortable life - enough food, clothes, entertainment (xbox, tv, etc.), medical expenses, hanging out/dating, etc.?

I would say about a good $2000-$3000, this depends on where you live though.

That is how much my mother makes and that's how we live. I have a job myself too, and I make about 600-700 a month.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Out of curiosity ... in the USA, how much do you need to make every month to live a relatively comfortable life - enough food, clothes, entertainment (xbox, tv, etc.), medical expenses, hanging out/dating, etc.?

In Canada, working full time (30 hours a week) at minimum wage works out to about $1400 a month (so about $17,000) a year. This is enough for a person to live on of they live simply, have no dependents, have no student loands, apply for tax rebates, etc. In general, groceries and other necessities cost slightly more in Canada than the U$ (and booze/smokes cost a lot more), but healthcare (excluding dental, glasses, some other things) is free so one isn't necessarily royally fucked if they get sick. Living comfortably (drinking, having access to nice food, eating out regularly, having a nice apartment, having a car) probably costs something between $24,000-$30,000. I'm not sure, because I've never made that much money.
My parents own their house, a car, cable television, and are quite comfortably "middle class" - I know both of my parents were making under $20,000 in the early eighties, but by the time my Dad retired (2010) he was making about $80,000 (before income taxes - which I'm guesstimating at just above $11,000 - union dues, various insurance policies, etc.). My mum had a similarly high paying job between 1998 and 2004, but otherwise worked only sporadically (usually short contracts). They own their house (a small three bedroom detached home in middleclass urban neighbourhood), as well a car, and a few luxury items (a piano, a china set). I think that's fairly typical of the middle class, if that gives you an idea.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Out of curiosity ... in the USA, how much do you need to make every month to live a relatively comfortable life - enough food, clothes, entertainment (xbox, tv, etc.), medical expenses, hanging out/dating, etc.?

Different in different areas. Here in Oakland it's hard to find any one bedroom apartment below 1,000 a month, a decent one would be 1200, and I'm sure it would be much more in wealthier or gentrified parts of town. You can rent a room in a house from someone for maybe 600, or split a smaller two bedroom and pay maybe 800 each or something. The high cost of living in the Bay Area creates a lot of informal or illegal living arrangements; immigrant families might live in a tri generational house, young white low income people pile in together in apartments or warehouse spaces, people of all ethnicities use family and friend networks to lean on, etc.

Food for two... I don't know maybe 200 a month. I ride public transportation and it's a little over 3 to get to work and back, so maybe 20/ week and 80 per month. I don't have a car or kids so I don't know how that would figure in.

In San Francisco which is supposedly the top 2nd or 3rd most expensive city in the u.s., an apartment would be more like 1800-2000 a month on the low end (and much much smaller than in oakland, usually no parking, so if you have a car you must rent a space) and 5 or 6,000 for a really nice one.

I make about 1500 a month and split a room with my wife in an apartment. I like it, it's a nice place and I think we pay less than it would normally be on the market. I have a mobile phone and internet and utility expenses. I used to steal cable, but then they "upgraded" the cable to digital which prevented my theft and also took away broadcast channels which means even rabbit ears won't pick up local stations. I go to the movies maybe one a month... 12 per ticket, smuggle food in because they inflate the food prices inside. I try and see local bands play and tickets range from 5 to 20 for a lot of punk and garage shows here. The Oakland baseball team has really good deals on tickets sometimes, so I try and do that once or twice a year.

[Popular Front of Judea]

Jimmy is the emergency room your health care plan?


Different in different areas. Here in Oakland it's hard to find any one bedroom apartment below 1,000 a month, a decent one would be 1200, and I'm sure it would be much more in wealthier or gentrified parts of town. You can rent a room in a house from someone for maybe 600, or split a smaller two bedroom and pay maybe 800 each or something. The high cost of living in the Bay Area creates a lot of informal or illegal living arrangements; immigrant families might live in a tri generational house, young white low income people pile in together in apartments or warehouse spaces, people of all ethnicities use family and friend networks to lean on, etc.

Food for two... I don't know maybe 200 a month. I ride public transportation and it's a little over 3 to get to work and back, so maybe 20/ week and 80 per month. I don't have a car or kids so I don't know how that would figure in.

In San Francisco which is supposedly the top 2nd or 3rd most expensive city in the u.s., an apartment would be more like 1800-2000 a month on the low end (and much much smaller than in oakland, usually no parking, so if you have a car you must rent a space) and 5 or 6,000 for a really nice one.

I make about 1500 a month and split a room with my wife in an apartment. I like it, it's a nice place and I think we pay less than it would normally be on the market. I have a mobile phone and internet and utility expenses. I used to steal cable, but then they "upgraded" the cable to digital which prevented my theft and also took away broadcast channels which means even rabbit ears won't pick up local stations. I go to the movies maybe one a month... 12 per ticket, smuggle food in because they inflate the food prices inside. I try and see local bands play and tickets range from 5 to 20 for a lot of punk and garage shows here. The Oakland baseball team has really good deals on tickets sometimes, so I try and do that once or twice a year.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Jimmy is the emergency room your health care plan?yes. Highland hospital emergency room. I haven't had to go there for myself, but I did f or my wife. Not fun and tons of people waiting.

[aty]

The myth of a middle class is the most dangerous threat to the working class.

[Anti-Traditional]

Incidentally a similar poll was held in the UK and 60% consider themselves working class:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/labour-says-the-working-class-no-longer-exists-so-why-do-60-per-cent-of-us-claim-to-belong-to-it-8452739.html

[Os Cangaceiros]

Different in different areas. Here in Oakland it's hard to find any one bedroom apartment below 1,000 a month, a decent one would be 1200, and I'm sure it would be much more in wealthier or gentrified parts of town. You can rent a room in a house from someone for maybe 600, or split a smaller two bedroom and pay maybe 800 each or something. The high cost of living in the Bay Area creates a lot of informal or illegal living arrangements; immigrant families might live in a tri generational house, young white low income people pile in together in apartments or warehouse spaces, people of all ethnicities use family and friend networks to lean on, etc.

Food for two... I don't know maybe 200 a month. I ride public transportation and it's a little over 3 to get to work and back, so maybe 20/ week and 80 per month. I don't have a car or kids so I don't know how that would figure in.

In San Francisco which is supposedly the top 2nd or 3rd most expensive city in the u.s., an apartment would be more like 1800-2000 a month on the low end (and much much smaller than in oakland, usually no parking, so if you have a car you must rent a space) and 5 or 6,000 for a really nice one.

I make about 1500 a month and split a room with my wife in an apartment. I like it, it's a nice place and I think we pay less than it would normally be on the market. I have a mobile phone and internet and utility expenses. I used to steal cable, but then they "upgraded" the cable to digital which prevented my theft and also took away broadcast channels which means even rabbit ears won't pick up local stations. I go to the movies maybe one a month... 12 per ticket, smuggle food in because they inflate the food prices inside. I try and see local bands play and tickets range from 5 to 20 for a lot of punk and garage shows here. The Oakland baseball team has really good deals on tickets sometimes, so I try and do that once or twice a year.

Holy shit. I rent a two bedroom apartment for 1000 a month and I thought that was expensive!

[RadioRaheem84]

In Canada, working full time (30 hours a week) at minimum wage works out to about $1400 a month (so about $17,000) a year

Wow, that's amazing! I make that much at my job working 40+ hours a week in an unstable field with no health insurance. Mind you this is an office job.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Holy shit. I rent a two bedroom apartment for 1000 a month and I thought that was expensive!yeah, I don't know how people live in manhattan or San Francisco.

In the east bay rents have been inflating for decades and the forclosure crisis actually made rents go up. Now s.f. Is so expensive that yuppies are moving here and think 150% above the Oakland rental market is a steal.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

yeah, I don't know how people live in manhattan or San Francisco.

In the east bay rents have been inflating for decades and the forclosure crisis actually made rents go up. Now s.f. Is so expensive that yuppies are moving here and think 150% above the Oakland rental market is a steal.

They had a quick segment on the ten o'clock news tonight about the smallest apartment in SF on the market right now. Rent is $1,200/month and it was something like 239 feet! I used to make that amount of money a month on $12/hour which was fantastic compared to what most people I know are making.