Demographics of RevLeft

[Misericordia]

I've been lurking for only a few months but I still have noticed a very disturbing pattern. Namely, although the members of this site are unusually fond expressing (advertising, even) their support for all sorts of feminist and anti-racist struggles, I haven't seen more than a couple of female users here(Oss Congaceiros and Quail) out of probably more than a hundred active users, and no minorities whatsoever, even though most users here are American or British(in the US, only 70% of the population is white).

I guess what I'm getting at is, why is this forum composed almost exclusively of white men, and has it ever been more diverse in the past?

[Flying Purple People Eater]

I've been lurking for only a few months but I still have noticed a very disturbing pattern. Namely, although the members of this site are unusually fond expressing (advertising, even) their support for all sorts of feminist and anti-racist struggles, I haven't seen more than a couple of female users here(Oss Congaceiros and Quail) out of probably more than a hundred active users, and no minorities whatsoever, even though most users here are American or British(in the US, only 70% of the population is white).

I guess what I'm getting at is, why is this forum composed almost exclusively of white men, and has it ever been more diverse in the past?

How do you know this? Did you ask them?

Finding the age demographic for websites is easy. Finding the ethnic demographic? I call bullshit. There is a very sizable number of non-white people on this forum, so I have no idea where you got that from.

The fact that the majority of people here are white may have something to do the fact that this is a predominantly American website, and America along with most of the worlds' largest English speaking countries having a majority white population?

A quick spin with google translate and google search reveals the same demographic basis in similar websites. E.g.

http://www.enternasyonalforum.net/index.php

quite obviously has a majority Turkish demographic. Because it's based around Turkey. Which has a majority turkish demographic.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I've been lurking for only a few months but I still have noticed a very disturbing pattern. Namely, although the members of this site are unusually fond expressing (advertising, even) their support for all sorts of feminist and anti-racist struggles, I haven't seen more than a couple of female users here(Oss Congaceiros and Quail) out of probably more than a hundred active users, and no minorities whatsoever, even though most users here are American or British(in the US, only 70% of the population is white).

I guess what I'm getting at is, why is this forum composed almost exclusively of white men, and has it ever been more diverse in the past?It also probably skews towards the young-ish side. I'd say generally (and annecdotally) that RevLeft is slightly less diverse than most of the activists and leftist scenes in the US... which is "better" (at least in terms of sexual minorities and women) but still far far from an organic reflection of the diversity of all sorts of things from race to sex to location and vocation of the working class in most of the countries we are posting from.

So in a bigger-picture sense, I think while many people here do try and make things better and more inviting and open, I think there are certain limits because of the demographics of the broader left currently. I think (and hope) that the broader situation is changing and a renewed vibrancy and broader scope of radical activists would have a positive impact here.

The Admins seem to have put an emphasis on encouraging female posters to become Mods (and new, decent posters in general) and there have been some strong rules put in to try and discorage casual sexist or homophobic language or attitudes (obviously anything beyond "causual" means restriction or banning). I think it's imporatant to be proactive on these issues because the internet is mostly self-selecting for participation and so if men in society generally feel confident and entitled to talk and feel they are right all the time, then a debate/discussion board is going to skew that way.

So as far as other immediate things that could be done - I don't know, it's an issue and people bring it up, but personally I don't know what concretely could be done because it also seems like most people signing up are youngish males. I would really like to hear member's suggestions for how they think more people could get involved, how it might be possible to have a better representation of all kinds of radical workers here (and maybe more imporatantly, the Left in general).

[Quail]

I think part of it is the demographics of the leftist movement offline. Pretty much every event I go to is overwhelmingly white and male - I'd say usually 80-90% male and very white (interestingly if you go to a meeting about feminism at any of these events the male to female ratio is reversed, which is rather depressing). I can't say exactly why the movement is off-putting to people of colour because I am white, although I can guess that a lot of what I'm about to say will also apply to people of colour. I also suspect these (http://biblacknonbeliever.wordpress.com/2013/08/05/twitter-rant-of-the-day-the-problem-with-white-feminism/) criticisms (http://shadowscrescent.wordpress.com/2012/06/21/the-default-feminism-is-white-privilege/) of feminism (http://www.salon.com/2013/08/15/feminism_cant_be_just_for_white_women/) probably apply to the communist movement too. I think women are put off from the movement in general by stuff like male dominated meetings, where women aren't really listened to and taken as seriously as men, lack of childcare for meetings (so many meetings are held in pubs), a kind of "macho" atmosphere (especially in the antifascist movement), the fact that women always end up doing all the menial tasks like taking minutes, etc. It's disheartening to see the same sexism that you fight against in wider society reflected in the radical community. I imagine it's the same for racism and other forms of discrimination.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

I think part of it is the demographics of the leftist movement offline. Pretty much every event I go to is overwhelmingly white and male - I'd say usually 80-90% male and very white (interestingly if you go to a meeting about feminism at any of these events the male to female ratio is reversed, which is rather depressing).

Weird - I find myself consistently in spaces where women outnumber men, or where there is near gender parity, not limited to specifically feminist events. I tend to notice the exceptions - mostly capital-P political groups, rather than groups that are taking on particular projects/issues. I think RevLeft, obviously, falls mostly into this later category.
Mind you, this might reflect a "quirk" of particular scenes/projects that interest me. eg - I feel like my hometown was way more of a white-boy sausage party.

[Geiseric]

It's definitely true, and i'm guilty of this IRL, that males who are excited about activism can do things without even noticing that are chauvinist, such as accidentally talking over women who may have softer voices. Those kinds of things make male activists look like tools, and i'm just happy my women comrades let me know about these kinds of things, because you are taught a lot of things from bourgeois, machismo culture even vicariously.

[Le Libérer]

I think it makes a lot sense that women are out numbered on message boards. Women are often laden with house chores, husbands or boy friends, children, on top of school or being married, even at younger ages than men.

And your observation as to who is male or female can only be guessed at. Women often want to hide their gender here for many reasons. Female posters are treated differently than their male counterparts.

[o well this is ok I guess]

Why did no one tell me I was white

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

I haven't seen more than a couple of female users here(Oss Congaceiros and Quail) out of probably more than a hundred active users, and no minorities whatsoever, even though most users here are American or British(in the US, only 70% of the population is white).


Female, gypsy, and Russian. :confused:

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

I don't feel the need to announce my skin color in every post that I make on a forum that has zero impact on the real world.

[RedBen]

soy latino cabron! what does it matter anyways?

[Popular Front of Judea]

Could the pronounced gender imbalance be caused, in part, by women being turned off by the never ending threads about repressive Stalinist states by clueless fanboys who see revolutionary politics as an opportunity to engage in live action role playing?

Nah. All is needed is more outreach. That'll do it.

[Le Libérer]

Could the pronounced gender imbalance be caused, in part, by women being turned off by the never ending threads about repressive Stalinist states by clueless fanboys who see revolutionary politics as an opportunity to engage in live action role playing?

Nah. All is needed is more outreach. That'll do it.
Seeing one liners are banned in the learning forum. I will make 3 sentences from this.


Ditto.

[ind_com]

I've been lurking for only a few months but I still have noticed a very disturbing pattern. Namely, although the members of this site are unusually fond expressing (advertising, even) their support for all sorts of feminist and anti-racist struggles, I haven't seen more than a couple of female users here(Oss Congaceiros and Quail) out of probably more than a hundred active users, and no minorities whatsoever, even though most users here are American or British(in the US, only 70% of the population is white).

I guess what I'm getting at is, why is this forum composed almost exclusively of white men, and has it ever been more diverse in the past?

It is mostly because this forum does not represent the majority of leftists in the world. So, participation is minimum from the areas where the most advanced leftist movements are taking place, or where non-whites and women are leading revolutions.

[RedBen]

the first communists ever met were black anti racist skinheads. i agree with the idea that this site does not represent much of the left, but it seems to still have some diversity.

[Red Commissar]

Internet forums in general tend to have an over-representation of white males. This is largely a result from the social fabric of internet use, which in itself seemed to have initially associated with white males trying to find a social outlet, people with common interests that for what ever reason they can't seem to find in their community. For one reason or another, initial internet use got a reputation of being male dominated and insensitive if not outright sexist to women, and we in effect saw communities develop that were predominately female and others that were predominately male.

Revleft's stuff can be seen as its own form of inclusive behavior, going on about politics at such a level that seems to be more associated with nerds which itself seems to be associated with a males-only mindset. So yeah there might be preconceptions about going into any political-related forum that this is only about people nerding out about politics.

That being said as far as users declare themselves to be, I find this forum to be far more diverse than others on the internet. It could be better, yes, but it's in a much better position than most. Gaming forums in particular tend to have a much more homogenous representation of typically middle-class white teenagers and maybe young adults, with the occasional female and/or minority user being exceptions to the rule. Revleft is much more varied than that as far as I can see.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I've been lurking for only a few months but I still have noticed a very disturbing pattern. Namely, although the members of this site are unusually fond expressing (advertising, even) their support for all sorts of feminist and anti-racist struggles, I haven't seen more than a couple of female users here(Oss Congaceiros and Quail) out of probably more than a hundred active users, and no minorities whatsoever, even though most users here are American or British(in the US, only 70% of the population is white).

I guess what I'm getting at is, why is this forum composed almost exclusively of white men, and has it ever been more diverse in the past?

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not female. :unsure:

[Ocean Seal]

I've been lurking for only a few months but I still have noticed a very disturbing pattern. Namely, although the members of this site are unusually fond expressing (advertising, even) their support for all sorts of feminist and anti-racist struggles, I haven't seen more than a couple of female users here(Oss Congaceiros and Quail) out of probably more than a hundred active users, and no minorities whatsoever, even though most users here are American or British(in the US, only 70% of the population is white).

I guess what I'm getting at is, why is this forum composed almost exclusively of white men, and has it ever been more diverse in the past?
Are you serious? Maybe its because you aren't posting in the right forums. There are black and latino users on this board including myself and I'd say at one point we were a healthy number on this board. But yeah there are less of us now, but if you have run into a minority poster, and simply assumed that he was white.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not female. :unsure:

I always assumed you were male because of your physical job going out on boats and fishing and shit. Is that sexist? Anyway, happy to be proved right.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not female. :unsure:
Ha, was it because of the avatar that they thought that? interesting how powerful those are in perceptions of identity. also, sorry, I'm not two dancing werewolves.

[Remus Bleys]

Ha, was it because of the avatar that they thought that? interesting how powerful those are in perceptions of identity. also, sorry, I'm not two dancing werewolves.

I thought they were cats .___________.

EDIT: I was also always under the impression you look just like your previous avatar.

[Red_Banner]

I'm not all white, I have a small amount of Turk(Asian).

[Le Libérer]

I know that it is inevitable that people end up knowing what my gender is, but I changed my avatar and username so that it will take longer for newbies to figure it out. I guess it is working, see the OP didn't name me as female. Opps. I just outed myself. Damn.

[Popular Front of Judea]

Ha, was it because of the avatar that they thought that? interesting how powerful those are in perceptions of identity. also, sorry, I'm not two dancing werewolves.

I am however a Groucho Marxist ...

[Os Cangaceiros]

I always assumed you were male because of your physical job going out on boats and fishing and shit. Is that sexist? Anyway, happy to be proved right.

No, it's true. The fishing industry is dominated by men. There are women who do it, though. The gender ratio is no where close to being equal however.

[DasFapital]

I may or may not be Ted Kaczynski. The Internet restrictions have become very lax where I am being housed.

[Popular Front of Judea]

I may or may not be Ted Kaczynski. The Internet restrictions have become very lax where I am being housed.

Ted Kaczynski only uses a typewriter. Busted. :grin:

[tachosomoza]

+1 nonwhite here.

[Skyhilist]

I think most people here are white males because that's generally society's least oppressed group, and therefore we have more free time to worry about this stuff and delve into theory to discuss. I know there are some people struggling economically on here, but I would be on the average most people on these boards are far better of than those in more economically oppressed groups like minorities are (again, on the average). Also young people like the internet, what can I say.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I think most people here are white males because that's generally society's least oppressed group, and therefore we have more free time to worry about this stuff and delve into theory to discuss. I know there are some people struggling economically on here, but I would be on the average most people on these boards are far better of than those in more economically oppressed groups like minorities are (again, on the average). Also young people like the internet, what can I say.

Well I can't speak to the white part, but studies I've looked show that women and men use the Internet in roughly equal rates (equal to within only a few percentage points, IIRC). However they use the internet in different ways. Male users are more likely to use discussion forums, for example, although I'm not really sure why that is.

[Remus Bleys]

Well I can't speak to the white part, but studies I've looked show that women and men use the Internet in roughly equal rates (equal to within only a few percentage points, IIRC). However they use the internet in different ways. Male users are more likely to use discussion forums, for example, although I'm not really sure why that is.
Out of curiosity, what do women usually do in these studies besides discussion forums?

[Os Cangaceiros]

From a 2005 study, but...

http://www.pewinternet.org/Reports/2005/How-Women-and-Men-Use-the-Internet/01-Summary-of-Findings.aspx

[Jimmie Higgins]

EDIT: I was also always under the impression you look just like your previous avatar.

Ha, that's part of the reason why I changed it.

[blake 3:17]

^^What OC said.

[Sentinel]

This thread is more suitable for Non Political than Learning. Moved.

[Il Medico]

I know that it is inevitable that people end up knowing what my gender is, but I changed my avatar and username so that it will take longer for newbies to figure it out. I guess it is working, see the OP didn't name me as female. Opps. I just outed myself. Damn.
Wait, the person in your avatar isn't a woman?

[RedBen]

Wait, the person in your avatar isn't a woman?
would still hump. man or woman:wub:

[cyu]

also, sorry, I'm not two dancing werewolves.

My dreams = shattered :laugh:

[Bostana]

I guess what I'm getting at is, why is this forum composed almost exclusively of white men, and has it ever been more diverse in the past?

I disagree. I think there are more non-whites here. But any ways what would it matter if the majority here was white and male? What would it matter if every signle one of use were white and male? Just because were white and male doesn't me we can't call out against discrimination. That is like saying that whites, during the civil rights movement, shouldn't be allowed to march with Martin Luther King Jr because they were white and not black.


I haven't seen more than a couple of female users here(Oss Congaceiros and Quail)
Is it sad that I just now learned Quail is female?

[human strike]

White men are taught from an early age that our voices matter and are in fact more important than those of Others. It'd be weird if internet forums weren't dominated by us - and there's no real reason why the left should fall outside of this trend - not that that excuses it in any way.

Leftists chat about being anti-sexist, anti-racist and anti-capitalist, anti-this and anti-that all the damn time - and so they should - but you don't think your way into a new way of acting, you act your way into a new way of thinking.

In other words, communise revleft.

[cyu]

White men are taught from an early age that our voices matter and are in fact more important than those of Others.

If it is actually true that most people here are white males (I've seen no actual data, and it sounds like something only the NSA actually knows), personally I would assume it is merely because the countries that frequent this site are mostly white, and the fact that there is greater internet usage among men than women (at least that was originally true - I have no clue what the current statistics are).

But in any case, you remind me of this survey, which I thought was quite fascinating:
http://everything2.com/node/e2poll/Adler%252C+Sulloway%252C+and+Zajonc+invade+E2

[Popular Front of Judea]

But in any case, you remind me of this survey, which I thought was quite fascinating:
http://everything2.com/node/e2poll/Adler%252C+Sulloway%252C+and+Zajonc+invade+E2

Clearly I am a member of the 3% that were born as full formed adults, with secret super powers. Glad to know I am not alone.

[RedBen]

would still hump. man or woman:wub:
wow! i should clarify, i meant Os Cangaceiros avatar! not the carrot top looky one from cor, but the brown skinneded one:lol:

[adipocere]

wow! i should clarify, i meant Os Cangaceiros avatar! not the carrot top looky one from cor, but the brown skinneded one:lol:

Way to strangely derail a thread RedBen... :lol:

[Le Libérer]

wow! i should clarify, i meant Os Cangaceiros avatar! not the carrot top looky one from cor, but the brown skinneded one:lol:
I'm not sure what carrot top avatar you are referring to. The woman in my avatar is black. She was a model in the photo/art piece I collaborated with my daughter on.

[RedBen]

I'm not sure what carrot top avatar you are referring to. The woman in my avatar is black. She was a model in the photo/art piece I collaborated with my daughter on.
the coloring on my monitor is funny, i forget it's just my screen sometimes. she looks like a white woman with red hair on my screen

[cyu]

We're all black now =]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_modern_humans