Is communism dogmatism ?

[Rafiko Bingo]

So, I've been reading texts from Bertrand Russell, which is a fervent humanist and anti-communist. However, I did read something quite unexpected when Russell affirms that Communism is a dogma, just as Religious dogma or Nazism.

I wanted to know what you would think about this statement. Was he right when he wrote this, if not, why ?

Thank you.


PS. Perhaps it is an idiot question, sorry then.

[Remus Bleys]

Some of it can be. The ultimate devotion to marxism, and the ultimate heresy being revisionism, which you should not follow under pain of death.

*coughcough*Hoxha*coughcough*

Of course, not all of it is. But this forum certainly seems like it. Look how many debates on here are on "true marxism."

Also: No question is a stupid question.

[Chop_Sugar_Cane_Dem]

Is communism dogmatic as practiced by Ho Chi Minh, Lenin, and Stalin? No.

Is communism as practiced by the net LARPers dogmatic? Just like any religion!

[cyu]

Is atheism dogmatism?

As Remus says, yes, some people are dogmatic communists - even among anarchists there are some that argue with one another over who is the "real" anarchist.

That doesn't mean everybody is though. You might compare them to people who want a car, or people who want to storm a castle. Would I be dogmatic if I were trying to get a car? Would I be dogmatic if I were trying to get communism? Would I be dogmatic if I insisted on storming that castle?

Maybe you think a horse or a plane is better than a car. If you try to force me to switch to horses or planes, who is the dogmatic one? Maybe you think there's a better alternative to communism. Well, after there are no more hungry people and people who need health care, then we can talk about what's better than communism =]

[Skyhilist]

No, communism isn't necessarily dogmatism it's just that some communists who are generally insular and sectarian can act very dogmatic.

Sort of how like how being an atheist doesn't mean you have to be a douchebag but certain atheists choose to be douchebags like Sam Harris. That doesn't make douchebaggery an inherent part of atheism.

We're don't agree with communist things on the basis that they're communist, we agree with communist things on the basis that they make sense. The things that make sense and the things that are communism just overlap greatly, making it reasonable for us to therefore call ourselves communists.

If something is historically communist but I think it's a bad idea, I'm not going to agree with it just because "oh, it's communist though".

[Skyhilist]

But this forum certainly seems like it. Look how many debates on here are on "true marxism."

This is unfortunately true.

Also it reminds me of the super elitist metalheads who argue over things like what is "trve br00tal kvlt black metal"

[RedBen]

So, I've been reading texts from Bertrand Russell, which is a fervent humanist and anti-communist. However, I did read something quite unexpected when Russell affirms that Communism is a dogma, just as Religious dogma or Nazism.

I wanted to know what you would think about this statement. Was he right when he wrote this, if not, why ?

Thank you.


PS. Perhaps it is an idiot question, sorry then.
first, there is no idiot question, it's always good to think critically. communism is not dogmatic, it seeks to dismantle the conditions that help culture and grow dogmatic institutions and ideologies. of course a rich person who benefits from capitalist decadence would be against communism. it would not be more beneficial to him financially. i'm sure most rich people, even half assed idealist rich people who participate in charities would reject anything that would be detrimental to their lavish lifestyles. btw, "this equals that" with no evidence is asinine. there was never a communist nation because communism would be without nations. there have been fascist nations. that's an obvious contradiction.

[RedBen]

Is communism dogmatic as practiced by Ho Chi Minh, Lenin, and Stalin? No.

Is communism as practiced by the net LARPers dogmatic? Just like any religion!
"psst, you sectarianism is showing":ohmy:

[G4b3n]

Marxism does tend to be used in a dogmatic form. The exact opposite of what Marx intended, which he stated over and over again in his lifetime.

[Remus Bleys]

Marxism does tend to be used in a dogmatic form. The exact opposite of what Marx intended, which he stated over and over again in his lifetime.
I think if he knew about all the talk about Marxism, he'd be rolling over in his grave....
And then he'd find out about all the sectarianism and it would be too much.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

Marxism does tend to be used in a dogmatic form. The exact opposite of what Marx intended, which he stated over and over again in his lifetime.

Hell, Marx ALREADY had to put up with this in his own lifetime. Howard Zinn's "Marx in Soho" tells the story of Pieper, the unemployed German misfit who would quote Marx to the man's face (something that ANY philosopher really hates). The man was one of the worst kind of syncophants who latched onto Marx like a tick, and the only reason Marx tolerated him was because his wife Jenny felt sorry for him.

At one point Pierper had formed a group called "The Marxist Society of London", and asked Marx to speak at the next meeting. Marx, of course, declined. That type of fanaticism drove him crazy.

In fact, this is how Zinn himself told it:


Also, I remembered that famous statement of Marx: “Je ne suis pas Marxiste.” I always wondered why Marx, an English-speaking German who had studied Greek for his doctoral dissertation, would make such an important statement in French. But I am confident that he did make it, and I think I know what brought it on. After Marx and his wife Jenny had moved to London, where they lost three of their six children to illness and lived in squalor for many years, they were often visited by a young German refugee named Pieper. This guy was a total “noodnik” (there are “noodniks” all along the political spectrum stationed ten feet apart, but there is a special Left Noodnik, hired by the police, to drive revolutionaries batty). Pieper (I swear, I did not make him up) hovered around Marx gasping with admiration, once offered to translate Das Kapital into English, which he could barely speak, and kept organising Karl Marx Clubs, exasperating Marx more and more by insisting that every word Marx uttered was holy. And one day Marx caused Pieper to have a severe abdominal cramp when he said to him: “Thanks for inviting me to speak at your Karl Marx Club. But I can’t. I’m not a Marxist.”


Later on, of course, Marx would reiterate this statement during his disagreements to the french socialist Jules Guesde due to the latter's wholesale poo-pooing of reformist struggles.

[#FF0000]

So, I've been reading texts from Bertrand Russell, which is a fervent humanist and anti-communist. However, I did read something quite unexpected when Russell affirms that Communism is a dogma, just as Religious dogma or Nazism.

I wanted to know what you would think about this statement. Was he right when he wrote this, if not, why ?

What he said can be applied to literally any political ideology, so no, he wasn't really right. Can people who call themselves marxists be dogmatic? Sure. But it's not inherent in communist/marxist thought.

[Jimmie Higgins]

So, I've been reading texts from Bertrand Russell, which is a fervent humanist and anti-communist. However, I did read something quite unexpected when Russell affirms that Communism is a dogma, just as Religious dogma or Nazism.

I wanted to know what you would think about this statement. Was he right when he wrote this, if not, why ?in what sense does he argue it's dogma?

Marxism has certainly been abused as a dogma... But as others have said, so too can any view. I tend to see Marxism as dynamic, changing and flexible.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Is communism dogmatic as practiced by Ho Chi Minh, Lenin, and Stalin? No.

The fact that you pose those people as being of similar positions of 'dogmatism' shows how little you know about them - specifically Ho Chi Minh.


Is communism as practiced by the net LARPers dogmatic? Just like any religion!

Care to explain?

[Rafiko Bingo]

in what sense does he argue it's dogma?


He vaguely explained it, I guess he thought it was a fact accepted by the majority. Let me quote ;

'The amalgam of beliefs, like Catholicism, Communism or Nazism, tend to pour into persecution and are always wrong, at least partially. Logic analysis makes it harder for me to embrace these dogmas.'