Hi Everyone..I'm New (and wondering about ecosocialism)

[Rain]

Hi guys,

I'm new here. I used to be a Republican and pretty ultraconservative growing up, but after starting college and seeing the world, my political views have moved farther and farther to the left. Right now, I sympathize the most with ecosocialism and am active in the ecosocialist world.

Btw, what are your personal opinions of ecosocialism?

[Fourth Internationalist]

Hello! I don't know if you're new to leftism or not, but in case you are, have you read Friedrich Engel's Principles of Communism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm) and/or his Draft of a Communist Confession of Faith (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/06/09.htm)? It's available at marxists.org (Marxists Internet Archive).

I'd recommend checking this out (MIA): Beginners Guide to Marxism (http://marxists.org/subject/students/index.htm) and Lenin's The Three Sources and Three Component Parts of Marxism (http://marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/mar/x01.htm).

Also, here are a few books (PDFs) that are a good introduction to Marxism.

Marx: A Beginner's Guide (http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/fss/e8cf47710e69d334b5e9e87b31f39d5c/Collier+-+Marx+A+Beginners+Guide.pdf)

The Revolutionary Ideas of Karl Marx (http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/fss/d82d1569f5dc8ef869a21aba711c0f88/Callinicos+-+Revolutionary+Ideas+of+Marx.pdf)

Are you interested in any particular tendency right now?

If you're not new, welcome! :)

[Fourth Internationalist]

I view the special emphasis on the environment a distraction.

[Rain]

Thank you, Aang! Very helpful suggestions. I've read parts of The Communist Manifesto and did some basic research on Marxism, but I'm still pretty new to the whole concept. Your suggestions were perfect :)

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Heya!
I'm not sure what in particular you mean by "ecosocialism" (I've heard it used a variety of ways) - are there particular authors/projects you're drawn to? Have you read Introduction To The Apocalypse (http://www.politicsisnotabanana.com/2009/12/were-only-partially-responsible-for.html)? If so, thoughts?
I've been involved in "green" organizing in various capacities for a long time, and am particularly interested in points where environmental defense and anticolonial struggle intersect (in particular, in the Canadian context, Tar Sands, pipeline, and fracking resistance).
Anyway, welcome!

[Comrade Jacob]

I agree with protecting the environment (as in nature, not capitalism) but the main focus should be smashing the capitalist class.

Welcome!

[The Idler]

I find ecosocialism a bit sentimental sometimes, almost like the idea of fighting on the barricades.

[VinnieUK]

The class struggle against capitalism will not be won by 'ecosocialism' whatever that means. Socialism/communism will only come about when the working class decides to pursue its own economic interests as a class.

That is not to say that the capitalist class is not destroying the planet in pursuit of its own economic interests.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Hi guys,

I'm new here. I used to be a Republican and pretty ultraconservative growing up, but after starting college and seeing the world, my political views have moved farther and farther to the left. Right now, I sympathize the most with ecosocialism and am active in the ecosocialist world.

Btw, what are your personal opinions of ecosocialism?

Well I think it's a pretty flexible term at this point. Personally I think that socialism (as in workers running society themselves, not a Socialist Party in power in congress/parliament or "Communist states") is the only viable way to really have sustainability, and I think workers would have an inherent interest in a stable, healthy, environment. Or put in a negative argument: capitalism can not be environmentally sustainable because it is based on private control of means of production (which includes the natural world) and the use of all resources for their most potentially profitable function. It accumulates for the sake of accumulation and when this causes problems, capitalism tries to solve these problems in ways that will be profitable (carbon-credit trading, for example).

I also see the environmental struggle as not one of people "protecting or advocating" for some idealized concept of nature, but actually of a question of what is (hu)man's relationship with the world around us: how do we relate to the environment what determines how and why we do this. In capitalism, again, it's all about how can things be divided up and sold off and used most profitably - this will cause capitalists to suck oil from frozen rocks, all the while knowing full-well that they are destroying the earth's future, if there's still a buck in it. Also in capitalism, the powerless are the ones who suffer the consequences - we live in the most polluted areas while the rich live in the hills or out in nature in their own private sanctuaries. So in this framework the environmental struggle is one of people against people, not people vs. nature and the group of people who can run society and do so for the mutual long-term benefit of all of us.

So I consider myself a socialist and I think an ecological view is inherent in that, but as for eco-socialism, I use that only to really just try and distinguish my ecological view from some of the pro-market or liberal or anti-human views of environmentalism.


I view the special emphasis on the environment a distraction. Well I find most of the mainstream environmental groups and movements to be ineffective and liberal, but I think the environmental struggle is part of the class struggle. Who decides what happens to the environment, the conditions we live in, the quality of the lives we lead? People or profits? Workers or Capital?

Workers have always suffered from living where the pollution flows, the flats where the sewage collects and the floods happen first. Is water privatized? Are our apartments and workplaces unhealthy for us and the environment? One of my main criticisms of the contemporary environmental movement is that they seek allies and hearing among politicians and corporations and don't seek to build a social movement for popular decisions on the environment. I think we need to try and help change that and make environmental racism, health effects on workers in the job-place, the impact of neoliberal and imperial policies in the so-called third world front and center concerns in environmental struggles.

[argeiphontes]

Right off the bat you seem like a smart person, Rain--I'm also a former Republican (this was in another epoch in high school) and was also radicalized via contact with the real world of capitalist exploitation. Well, and some reading and a Trotskyist group I was briefly involved in.

I think that ecosocialism is a fine gateway drug. While you're checking out the materials and links others have posted, don't forget about anarchism and Noam Chomsky (http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/19961223.htm). Or IOPS (http://www.iopsociety.org/).

[Rain]

Thanks for all the helpful feedback and warm welcomes, everyone! You've helped a lot. :grin: I've re-examined my focus. While the environment is important, I agree 100% that there are more pressing issues.

[Q]

Welcome :)

If you have political questions, you can ask them in the Learning forum. That's why it's there after all!

If you have questions about your account, don't hesitate to send me a PM or ask here.

What are your political ideas? Also, where from the US are you and what is the left scene like there (if any)?

[Rain]

Welcome :)

If you have political questions, you can ask them in the Learning forum. That's why it's there after all!

If you have questions about your account, don't hesitate to send me a PM or ask here.

What are your political ideas? Also, where from the US are you and what is the left scene like there (if any)?

Hi! Thanks for your suggestions.
I'm from Utah and the Left is very timid here. It's a Republican-dominated state with a strong religious population (Mormons). There are left-wing people, but it's hard to make progress. We're still in the shadows.

[Glitchcraft]

Just a thought about environmentalism.
In a hypothetical post revolutionary situation the goal of a workers democracy or a workers state would be to ramp up the means of production to alleviate the massive scarcity created by capitalism. In other words produce more than is currently produced, get everyone fed, clothed, housed and educated. This industrial push would likely not be "good" for the environment. Having a program that focuses on protecting the environment over eliminating scarcity would greatly hinder the ability to meet the needs of the starving masses.
We can hope or assume that democratically controlled oil production would not be so reckless in extracting oil. That farmers would not intentionally pollute the earth with GMOs, or lumber companies wouldn't clear cut old growth forests. But the focus shouldn't be on putting an end to offshore oil drilling or clear cutting it should be to putting an end to private ownership of these enterprises.