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View Full Version : (RAGE ALERT)Libertarians are the New Communists



ВАЛТЕР
8th September 2013, 00:48
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-05/libertarians-are-the-new-communists.html





Most people would consider radical libertarianism and communism polar opposites: The first glorifies personal freedom. The second would obliterate it. Yet the ideologies are simply mirror images. Both attempt to answer the same questions, and fail to do so in similar ways. Where communism was adopted, the result was misery, poverty and tyranny. If extremist libertarians ever translated their beliefs into policy, it would lead to the same kinds of catastrophe.
Let’s start with some definitions. By radical libertarianism, we mean the ideology that holds that individual liberty trumps all other values. By communism, we mean the ideology of extreme state domination of private and economic life.
Some of the radical libertarians are Ayn Rand (http://topics.bloomberg.com/rand/) fans who divide their fellow citizens into makers, in the mold of John Galt, and takers, in the mold of anyone not John Galt.
Some, such as the Koch brothers, are economic royalists who repackage trickle-down economics as “libertarian populism.” Some are followers of Texas Senator Ted Cruz, whose highest aspiration is to shut down government. Some resemble the anti-tax activist Grover Norquist (http://topics.bloomberg.com/grover-norquist/), who has made a career out of trying to drown, stifle or strangle government.
Yes, liberty is a core American value, and an overweening state can be unhealthy. And there are plenty of self-described libertarians who have adopted the label mainly because they support same-sex marriage or decry government surveillance. These social libertarians aren’t the problem. It is the nihilist anti-state libertarians of the Koch-Cruz-Norquist-Paul (Ron and Rand alike) school who should worry us.
Human Nature

Like communism, this philosophy is defective in its misreading of human nature, misunderstanding of how societies work and utter failure to adapt to changing circumstances. Radical libertarianism assumes that humans are wired only to be selfish, when in fact cooperation is the height of human evolution. It assumes that societies are efficient mechanisms requiring no rules or enforcers, when, in fact, they are fragile ecosystems prone to collapse and easily overwhelmed by free-riders. And it is fanatically rigid in its insistence on a single solution to every problem: Roll back the state!
Communism failed in three strikingly similar ways. It believed that humans should be willing cogs serving the proletariat. It assumed that societies could be run top-down like machines. And it, too, was fanatically rigid in its insistence on an all-encompassing ideology, leading to totalitarianism.
Radical libertarianism, if ever put into practice at the scale of something bigger than a tiny enclave, would also be a disaster.
We say the conditional “would” because radical libertarianism has a fatal flaw: It can’t be applied across a functioning society. What might radical libertarians do if they actually had power? A President Paul would rule by tantrum, shutting down the government in order to repeal laws already passed by Congress. A Secretary Norquist would eliminate the Internal Revenue Service (http://topics.bloomberg.com/internal-revenue-service/) and progressive taxation (http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/FFSTIND:IND), so that the already wealthy could exponentially compound their advantage, as the programs that sustain a prosperous middle class are gutted. A Koch domestic policy would obliterate environmental standards for clean air and water, so that polluters could externalize all their costs onto other people.
Radical libertarians would be great at destroying. They would have little concept of creating or governing. It is in failed states such as Somalia that libertarianism finds its fullest actual expression.
Extreme Positions

Some libertarians will claim we are arguing against a straw man and that no serious adherent to their philosophy advocates the extreme positions we describe. The public record of extreme statements by the likes of Cruz, Norquist and the Pauls speaks for itself. Reasonable people debate how best to regulate or how government can most effectively do its work -- not whether to regulate at all or whether government should even exist.
The alternative to this extremism is an evolving blend of freedom and cooperation. The relationship between social happiness and economic success can be plotted on a bell curve, and the sweet spot is away from the extremes of either pure liberty or pure communitarianism. That is where true citizenship and healthy capitalism are found.
True citizenship enables a society to thrive for precisely the reasons that communism and radical libertarianism cannot. It is based on a realistic conception of human nature that recognizes we must cooperate to be able compete at higher levels. True citizenship means changing policy to adapt to changes in circumstance. Sometimes government isn’t the answer. Other times it is.
If the U.S. is to continue to adapt and evolve, we have to see that freedom isn’t simply the removal of encumbrance, or the ability to ignore inconvenient rules or limitations. Freedom is responsibility. Communism failed because it kept citizens from taking responsibility for governing themselves. By preaching individualism above all else, so does radical libertarianism.
It is one thing to oppose intrusive government surveillance or the overreach of federal programs. It is another to call for the evisceration of government itself. Let’s put radical libertarianism into the dustbin of history, along with its cousin communism.

bcbm
8th September 2013, 01:05
it took two professionals to write this 9th grade poli sci paper?

ВАЛТЕР
8th September 2013, 01:11
it took two professionals to write this 9th grade poli sci paper?


Oh yeah. Lots of time and energy was poured into this project.

bcbm
8th September 2013, 01:43
i liked this quote

Radical libertarians would be great at destroying. They would have little concept of creating or governing. It is in failed states such as Somalia that libertarianism finds its fullest actual expression.

because some libertarians are actually fond of somolia:
http://www.libertariannews.org/2011/06/30/anarchy-in-somalia/


Regarding Somalia in particular, Ben Powell et al. have done fantastic work analyzing Somalia before and after its transition to statelessness, and also comparing its fate with similar African nations. Their conclusion is that — of course — stateless Somalia is no paradise, but its lack of a corrupt, brutal government has given it an advantage over its former self and its current peers. . .

Economists familiar with the Rothbardian tradition have taken the analysis even further, persuasively arguing that Somalia is much better without a state than it was with one. The standard statist put-down — “If you Rothbardians like anarchy so much, why don’t you move to Somalia?” — misses the point. The Rothbardian doesn’t claim that the absence of a state is a sufficient condition for bliss. Rather, the Rothbardian says that however prosperous and law-abiding a society is, adding an institution of organized violence and theft will only make things worse.

Fourth Internationalist
8th September 2013, 02:15
Most people would consider radical libertarianism and communism polar opposites: The first glorifies personal freedom. The second would obliterate it.
Ha! The second is the only way to achieve freedom for both the individual and society.


Yet the ideologies are simply mirror images. Both attempt to answer the same questions, and fail to do so in similar ways. Where communism was adopted, the result was misery, poverty and tyranny. Communism has never existed as a post-capitalist system, and most "communist" states, actually, were capitalist. Ergo free? Nope!


Let’s start with some definitions. By radical libertarianism, we mean the ideology that holds that individual liberty trumps all other values. By communism, we mean the ideology of extreme state domination of private and economic life.Oh. Well, I guess then we're just switching words and definitions now? So this whole article is attacking a completely new defintion of communism and not the communism of that of Marx, Engels, Luxemburg, Lenin, and Trotsky?
We might as well just reorganise the dictionary just for the sake of it. Unless they're purposely trying to misrepresent communism... hmm...


Like communism, this philosophy is defective in its misreading of human nature, misunderstanding of how societies work and utter failure to adapt to changing circumstances.
Marxism is the philosophy that best explains human nature because it is materialist and based on reality, and it is the bourgeois philosophers who must rely on idealism and other incorrect almost religious ideas. Marxism, unlike the many bourgeois ideologies, remains consistent.


It believed that humans should be willing cogs serving the proletariat.Here is an example of a very clear example of bourgeois propaganda. The proletariat is the working class, and it is abolished in communism, not served by the former bourgeoisie. Also, this is a clear example of taking advantage of the fact that "proletariat" is a word most people do not know of, and ergo sees its dictatorship as authoritarian to the whole of society instead of liberating.


It assumed that societies could be run top-down like machines.
Capitalists wish to see society operated by the small capitalist class (the bourgeoisie). We communists wish for everyone to take part, in contradiction to the bourgeoisie's desires.


And it, too, was fanatically rigid in its insistence on an all-encompassing ideology, leading to totalitarianism.Ha! When you can't criticize something, just throw out the word totalitarian.


The alternative to this extremism is an evolving blend of freedom and cooperation. The relationship between social happiness and economic success can be plotted on a bell curve, and the sweet spot is away from the extremes of either pure liberty or pure communitarianism. That is where true citizenship and healthy capitalism are found.
Such lovely words for such as murderous anti-democratic system - capitalism.


True citizenship enables a society to thrive for precisely the reasons that communism and radical libertarianism cannot.
Oh yay patriotism, nationalism, and "citizenship". Nationalism surely has harmed no one, eh? *cough* Holocaust, imperialism, world war, systematic racism *cough*


Communism failed because it kept citizens from taking responsibility for governing themselves.Communism didn't "fail". Transitional workers' states were set up by the working class and fell to capitalism under Stalinist dictatorships due to conditions caused by imperialists and reactionaries.


Let’s put radical libertarianism into the dustbin of history, along with its cousin communism.Implying communism is already in that dustbin? Ha! Is that why this article had to make up a completely different definition of communism to argue against than the communism of Marx, Engels, Luxemburg, Lenin, and Trotsky?

Sea
8th September 2013, 09:17
oh my god liberals

Ceallach_the_Witch
8th September 2013, 14:31
oh my god liberals
I was about to say the same thing :/

When will I be so jaded to this kind of lazy, incorrect garbage that I won't care about it anymore? Or do I have to spend the rest of my life controlling kneejerk indignant anger every time someone says well its human nature and uh state control and stuff and um like that's bad we need to make capitalism work for the people yeah


Ladies and gentlemen, it's 2:30 in the afternoon and I think I want to go to the pub.

helot
8th September 2013, 15:11
"healthy capitalism" lol.


I've seen children with a more nuanced understanding of the world.

Flying Purple People Eater
8th September 2013, 15:29
"healthy capitalism" lol.


Oh, didn't you know? Those Haitian workers working in sweatshops who had a minimum wage law refused after Levi Jeans harassed the shit out of the political parties just love capitalism. Those Guatemalan union organisers who were assassinated for protesting conditions at Coca-Cola factories love that laissez-faire stuff!

Whenever these people talk about a 'healthy economy', it's usually just a euphemism for "very rich people are getting their pockets filled". Heavens forbid the horrible notion of 'healthy capitalism'. Do Chinese factories come close?