The American Tea Party

[RedCeltic]

I must admit, I live a rather sheltered life, my father is a socialist
as was his father before him, my mother identifies as a "progressive"
while most people I work with are liberals of varying degrees, or fairly
apolitical.

Lately however, I have taken up civil war reenactment which unfortunately has brought me into contact with many of these tea party people who spend much of their time while we aren't reenacting... talking about "libtards" and how Obama is the word president in history. I usually just keep to myself and watch the liberals of the unit roll their eyes as I've my own reasons for not liking Obama's politics.

Tonight however, my cousin, who it seems is also of this Tea Party ilk, had posted something stupid about Obama On Facebook. When my mother responded saying he didn't know what he was talking about, he was very nasty calling her a libtard and such.

I am wondering what makes these people so full of hate? Do they actually have an ideology? If they do I am unaware of what makes one a tea party'er. I also wonder if it is common for police officers like my cousin to become extreme rightwing?

What do people think of the Tea Party? Personally I would call them fascists, though that would indicate they actually have an ideology and so far all I know is they hate Obama.

[Zergling]

These are the types of people who would run over a child for a dime. Very hard to reason with them unless it affects them directly. Then all of a sudden it is a complete 180.

[Vireya]

Tea Party proponents are mostly Ayn Rand fanatics in my experience. Objectivism is probably the worst ideology, probably only matched by liberalism.

[Red_Banner]

The "Tea party" is the "petty Bourgeoisie" that Trotsky describes in "Fascism What It is and How To Fight It.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

I think it's a farce that petty bourgeois, old white people or Randiods buy into. I don't see how it's any different or what separates it from the traditional voting habits of the Republican base aside from the actually get out of their retirement homes and college dorms, slap Rand quotes on signs, and show how much they don't know by shouting it loudly aka any Tea Party demo ever.

[Glitchcraft]

The Libertarians that I know personally, seem to rarely live up to the actual ideology. They are people who believe in the stated republican political ideology but generally do not have the religious or racist beliefs that many right wingers have. (these are just the few I know personally) Similar to way many leftists view the Democrats, a lot of the original or early joining Tea Party types think that politicians like Bush and Cheney are fake right wingers just using the language to get elected. They believe in very little government intervention into our lives, no taxes, personal responsibility etc and are offended when Republicans contradict these positions by calling on the state to enforce things that they think should be left alone. They are attracted to things like the Tea Party because it is their way of being conservative but breaking from the Republicans.

The few people I know that were somewhat involved in the early Tea Party events ended up leaving in disgust claiming it had all been derailed into support for the Republicans. Sound familiar? I'm in no way defending their stance but the Tea Party did go through a huge change when it was basically hijacked by right wing media pundits and opportunist right wingers (if that doesn't sound too contradictory). Remember that their are people out there that think that Bush wasn't a real right winger because he didn't live up to their expectations. They see things like the Patriot act and Bank bailouts and become disillusioned in the Republicans in the same way leftists become disillusioned in the Democrats.

The hijacking of the Tea Party preceded an immediate influx of the angry, racist, homophobic assholes we associate with them today. Again I am not defending these people just merely stating something I think a lot of us lefties tend to overlook. And hopefully understanding them a little more will help us to undermine them all the better.

[tuwix]

Do they actually have an ideology?

Yes, a stupid one. Based on something that cannot exist even by its own definiostions: a free market.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Right-wing populist movement commonly overhyped by the left, who half-expected to see the Tea Party brownshirts marching through their neighborhoods, led by Glenn Beck wearing fatigues

[Sasha]

It's the current US version of populist rightwing ressentiments that has always been present in society, it doesn't matter what the profesed ideology is as it doesn't matter to its supporters, they just want vindication for their (economic) fears and chauvinist bigotry. Now in the west its islamophobia and cultural marxism conspiracy crap, in India its Hindu extremism, in Burma and Thailand its buddist supremacy and in the Muslim world its the Muslim brotherhood or salafism, it used to fascism, Nazism or extreme nationalism, before that it was catholic and protestant extremism, puratanism or royalism, etc etc.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Right-wing populist movement commonly overhyped by the left, who half-expected to see the Tea Party brownshirts marching through their neighborhoods, led by Glenn Beck wearing fatiguesWell to be fair, they were hyped up by the media which then freaked out liberals and leftists alike to various degrees.

I think they were initially hyped by the media and politicians as a way to dampen popular expectations about health care and so on; they got free-reign (and weren't even being criticized by the liberal politicians they were attacking aside from "rudeness") during the bullshit "town halls". Rather than being some Right-wing insurgancy against both parties (as claimed in the media) the actual protesters were more solidly Republican than most Republican voters... they still thought Bush had done a good job even when most Republican voters had developed a negative view of Bush in terms of the party and policies in office. I think they also got away from the Republicans and conservative organizations that helped unleash them - but just a little bit. The Republicans put them back in their cages and talked of "moderation" and so on - only to then highlight them again in the months before the elections.

So that being said, I guess in terms of the OP question, I don't think the Tea Party represented a real movement - their organizations fell apart pretty quickly and they ended up canceling their big conferences once the congresssional election was over. I think they basically represent the same 70s era populism of the tax revolts and Reganism... this is refleced in the average age of their supporters who were mostly (white) people who would have become adults in the 1970s. They were angry and disoriented by the economic shifts going on under their feet that contradicted everything they had believed for 30 years. Their actual proposals and ideas were nothing seperate from FOX news type complaints.

So in terms of politics, these views reflect the views of a segment of society which benifited from neoliberal policies (like some small business people who want low taxes and dislike regulation) along with other segments of society who were either won to these views or precieve that neoliberal policies are their best option for mobility (which can sometimes be true in a way like with homeowners tax-stuff, but often is just a mirage or only true in a very narrow sense).

Because of the pretty dominantly middle class attendance in these protests and the general middle class nature of the politics, the tea-party represented some of the raw materials of what could develop into a significant fascist movement in the US (and I think libertarians as well, though it might seem contradictory to their notions on the surface), IMO they were definately not fascists, just angry conservatives (though actual fascists did try to organize inside these protests and groups). I think class struggle is still too subterranian in the US at the moment for a significant fasicst movement to develop - not that circumstances couldn't change quickly, especially if there is another crash or a rise in class militancy. The Tea-Party even tried to counter-protest the Wisconsin Occupation and a couple of guys showed up and then were chased off. A real fascist movement would have sent vigilantes to "patrol and protect the state house" from the degenerates and do what the police were "too ineffectual" to accomplish.

[synthesis]

It's the current US version of populist rightwing ressentiments that has always been present in society, it doesn't matter what the profesed ideology is as it doesn't matter to its supporters, they just want vindication for their (economic) fears and chauvinist bigotry. Now in the west its islamophobia and cultural marxism conspiracy crap, in India its Hindu extremism, in Burma and Thailand its buddist supremacy and in the Muslim world its the Muslim brotherhood or salafism, it used to fascism, Nazism or extreme nationalism, before that it was catholic and protestant extremism, puratanism or royalism, etc etc.

I think suppressing national minorities and immigrants is one side of the coin of these kinds of currents; the other, as noted by Red_Banner, which I would argue is more important at least in this particular example, is its class character, which is mainly bourgeois ideology but wielded primarily by the petit-bourgeoisie.

I also think that the Tea Party itself is indeed overhyped, but it shouldn't be completely dismissed as meaningless outside of the broader right-wing, because I believe that "if" (when) the social conservatives regain the upper hand in American politics, it will largely be composed of individuals either arising from or inspired by the particular, peculiar atmosphere of the Tea Party. The Paul Ryan types. If nothing else, it can give us a more specific idea of what to expect when that happens.

[Tolstoy]

The notion that all Tea Partiers are bad people is an unfair oner, ive met plenty of small business owners that are deluded into believing that the GOP and the Tea Party are supportive of small business.

This isnt the majority of them though, ive seen them insult my mother (for being a public sector teacher) because of their precious taxpayer money.

Their outright hatered of Obama also suggests rascism. While I disagree with most of what Barack Obama does, I dont get granny punchingly irate when his name is mentioned like so many of my Republican relatives do (who were mostly copperhead democrats until Obama was elected and they became Republicans)

[the debater]

What do people think of the Tea Party? Personally I would call them fascists, though that would indicate they actually have an ideology and so far all I know is they hate Obama.

I don't think they're neo-nazis; apparently some of them believe Obama is equal to Hitler in terms of how evil he is. :confused: Some white supremacist types are probably going to try to ally with tea-party groups in the future, but nevertheless, I would still consider the Tea Party to be somewhat populist. Personally, if they want to get away from the evil gays and feminists and secularists, their best destination would probably be somewhere like Afghanistan or Uganda. Stay out of those messed up leftist hell-holes like Sweden and Canada. And also Switzerland as well, since they're apparently trying to get rid of their religious national anthem.

[synthesis]

The notion that all Tea Partiers are bad people is an unfair oner, ive met plenty of small business owners that are deluded into believing that the GOP and the Tea Party are supportive of small business.

The GOP serves the interest of the bourgeoisie, as does every party in electoral politics, but the Tea Party as a "movement" does have a strong basis in the petit-bourgeoisie - of which small business owners are pretty much the definition.

[Fred]

The Tea Party is a cesspool of right-wing populist indignation. These folks are the fodder for fascism (the disenfranchised petty bourgeoisie). They basically want services without paying taxes -- don't want ethnic minorities of any kind to have any traction in society. Consistent with many US populist movements, they are deeply racist. They have been largely harnessed by the GOP old guard thus far. Since they represent a small fraction of the society, I don't think they can become too strong unless they change a bunch. The TPers are furious because they are not privileged -- there is a lot less to go around now that the US is not THE dominant economic power it once was. So while we might appreciate some of the anger of these folks -- this is precursor to fascism.

Regarding police -- they are usually right-wing. Look at the function they serve -- the armed fist of the state. Their job is to protect property and maintain the status quo. They are also often highly corrupt.

[Ace High]

The Tea Party was an actual conspiracy implemented by corporations to make it seem like some "grass roots" movement. Really, these people are simply dumb white businessmen being manipulated by corporations. They are pseudo fascists yes.

Also, Obama > Tea Party. However, syphilis is better than AIDS, right?

[Klaatu]

The Tea Party is almost exactly the same type of person that would have joined The Nazi Party, had this been the 1930s Germany. Really!

[TaylorS]

IMO the Tea Party is a mix of several demographics:

1. Petite Bourgeoisie being agitated by Libertarian propaganda by the Kochs and other mega-rich capitalist families.

2. Fundamentalist Christians in a state of panic because of the surge of support for "social liberal" causes like same-sex marriage.

3. Racist/Hierarchist "States Rights" types, including most self-described "Libertarians", These are the folks Pat Buchanan was channelling when he ranted about Obama wanting to destroy the "white male Christian power structure".

[Klaatu]

IMO the Tea Party is a mix of several demographics:

1. Petite Bourgeoisie being agitated by Libertarian propaganda by the Kochs and other mega-rich capitalist families.

2. Fundamentalist Christians in a state of panic because of the surge of support for "social liberal" causes like same-sex marriage.

3. Racist/Hierarchist "States Rights" types, including most self-described "Libertarians", These are the folks Pat Buchanan was channelling when he ranted about Obama wanting to destroy the "white male Christian power structure".

The parallels here to 1930s Nazi ideology is uncanny

[synthesis]

The parallels here to 1930s Nazi ideology is uncanny

Except without anti-Semitism or anti-"Bolshevism" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism), which are the key defining factors of Nazi ideology that allowed them to seize power. Tea Party people may call everything they don't like "communist," but they're not harnessing the immediate fears of a Marxist revolution or the imperial ambitions of Soviet Russia.

My overall impression is that the elements of the far right who think everything is a Jewish conspiracy seem to be pretty distinct from that of the Tea Party, who are on the whole very pro-Israel in foreign policy and indeed criticize Obama for what they see as a lack of unwavering support for Israel. To a certain extent I think the Christian right's support for Israel is implicitly anti-Semitic in that they promote Zionism as a sort of Jewish separatist movement - sort of like the Liberian project around the time of the American Civil War - but it's still not the same as screaming about "the ZOG" every chance you get.

[Klaatu]

Except without anti-Semitism or anti-"Bolshevism" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism), which are the key defining factors of Nazi ideology that allowed them to seize power. Tea Party people may call everything they don't like "communist," but they're not harnessing the immediate fears of a Marxist revolution or the imperial ambitions of Soviet Russia.

My overall impression is that the elements of the far right who think everything is a Jewish conspiracy seem to be pretty distinct from that of the Tea Party, who are on the whole very pro-Israel in foreign policy and indeed criticize Obama for what they see as a lack of unwavering support for Israel. To a certain extent I think the Christian right's support for Israel is implicitly anti-Semitic in that they promote Zionism as a sort of Jewish separatist movement - sort of like the Liberian project around the time of the American Civil War - but it's still not the same as screaming about "the ZOG" every chance you get.

Yes yes I get that... but I speak of the parallels: the anti-gay, anti-communist, anti-fill in the blank. These parallels are not anti-Semite in the modern Tea-Partier... these parallels instead exist in the raw hatred of minorities, and the capitalist support for their cause. That is what I meant.

[synthesis]

Yes yes I get that... but I speak of the parallels: the anti-gay, anti-communist, anti-fill in the blank. These parallels are not anti-Semite in the modern Tea-Partier... these parallels instead exist in the raw hatred of minorities, and the capitalist support for their cause. That is what I meant.

I just don't know how much those parallels exist separately from the broader general current of social conservatism. Nazism and "national conservatives" were seen as different tendencies, so to speak, in the early 30's; they were highly intertwined, of course, and they did feed off of one another, but I think it's important to understand the distinctions.

[Fred]

Right-O. While it is obvious that the TP is a ready breeding ground for fascism -- it is not a fascist organization. Fascist orgs are armed, terrorist organizations that usually come front and center when the bourgeoisie are afraid they cannot rule by the "usual" methods of legal coercion on the lower classes. All reactionaries are not created equal and it is important to make the distinction between the TP and the KKK -- at least at this point in time.

[the debater]

My overall impression is that the elements of the far right who think everything is a Jewish conspiracy seem to be pretty distinct from that of the Tea Party, who are on the whole very pro-Israel in foreign policy and indeed criticize Obama for what they see as a lack of unwavering support for Israel. To a certain extent I think the Christian right's support for Israel is implicitly anti-Semitic in that they promote Zionism as a sort of Jewish separatist movement - sort of like the Liberian project around the time of the American Civil War - but it's still not the same as screaming about "the ZOG" every chance you get.

It seems like with the Jews, people either love them to death, or hate them to death. If Zionists believe that they should get special treatment because their religion says so, I'm obviously going to oppose such an opinion 110%. However, I don't automatically side with muslims in the Middle East who think Israel should be wiped off the map either, assuming some of them think that way about Israel. Call me reasonable. :cool:

[Fred]

It seems like with the Jews, people either love them to death, or hate them to death. If Zionists believe that they should get special treatment because their religion says so, I'm obviously going to oppose such an opinion 110%. However, I don't automatically side with muslims in the Middle East who think Israel should be wiped off the map either, assuming some of them think that way about Israel. Call me reasonable. :cool:

Off topic a bit, but sure. There are many leftists that support nationalists that have just such a program -- reverse the terms of oppression. The problem in places where the nations, as such, don't have boundaries and the populations are interspersed, is that you don't just send the oppressing group somewhere or kill them all. A solution in Israel has to include the hebrew speaking, jewish people there, on an equal basis as the arabic speaking, palestinian population. Some get caught up in the idea that since Israel is the oppressor nation, they deserve whatever they get -- this is a moralistic trap -- the oppression needs to stop, and the special privileges need to end. Power needs to be in the hands of the Arab and Jewish Proletariat.

[synthesis]

It seems like with the Jews, people either love them to death, or hate them to death. If Zionists believe that they should get special treatment because their religion says so, I'm obviously going to oppose such an opinion 110%. However, I don't automatically side with muslims in the Middle East who think Israel should be wiped off the map either, assuming some of them think that way about Israel. Call me reasonable. :cool:

As a side note, I think it is interesting that no matter how much the anti-Israeli governments yell about wiping their enemies off the map, Israel is the only state that has the power to actually do that.

(Of course, I don't think anyone talked about "wiping Israel off the map" until Ahmadinejad's comments were mistranslated that way (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#.22Wiped_off_the_ma p.22_controversy). What he really said was closer to "the regime occupying Jerusalem should vanish from the pages of time." It's important to note that no matter how much the statements were exploited later, it was the Iranian state media which translated it this way. Always beware of people who use tricks to make you hate someone that you should hate already.)

In any case, I think what I said about the U.S. Christian Right was actually an intentional refutation of the idea that people either "love the Jews to death, or hate them to death." The pro-Israel foreign policy of the U.S. obviously furthers Western interests, because Israel is an imperialist European colonial state, but I'd argue that the rhetoric used to defend this policy is implicitly based on the idea that all Jews should "go back" to Israel in the same way that some of them think that all black people should "go back to Africa."

[Klaatu]

Right-O. While it is obvious that the TP is a ready breeding ground for fascism -- it is not a fascist organization. Fascist orgs are armed, terrorist organizations that usually come front and center when the bourgeoisie are afraid they cannot rule by the "usual" methods of legal coercion on the lower classes. All reactionaries are not created equal and it is important to make the distinction between the TP and the KKK -- at least at this point in time.

Bear in mind that the "Tea-Party" is very well-armed, and preaches hatred.

[Fred]

Bear in mind that the "Tea-Party" is very well-armed, and preaches hatred.


I agree with you. But it is important not to use the term "fascist" simply as an epithet against all of the forces of reaction. Why is it so important? Well for one thing, I think the left needs to deal with fascists differently than, say, the John Birch Society or the Tea Party.

[Richard Nixon]

Bear in mind that the "Tea-Party" is very well-armed, and preaches hatred.


Their threats to brandish arms is little more than dick-waving just the like the militias in the '90s were. The vast majority of right-wing terrorism in the United States in recent decades has come from lone wolves not Tea Party militias.

[Klaatu]

Their threats to brandish arms is little more than dick-waving just the like the militias in the '90s were. The vast majority of right-wing terrorism in the United States in recent decades has come from lone wolves not Tea Party militias.

True that. But it is also possible that those 'lone wolves' are stirred up by the likes of Tea Party rhetoric (and Fox News)

[Sotionov]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWs6g3L3fkU

[Jimmie Higgins]

Bear in mind that the "Tea-Party" is very well-armed, and preaches hatred.


Yes, but at this point their main focus has been pressuring the government to work as they think it should. Fascism is more likely when people like this think that the government is incapable to making society work as it should and so the people with the "will" to make order should be in power.

The US tea party and the golden dawn may have similar ideological views and attitudes (though even here, not to the same extreeme) and appeal to the same sorts of social groups and concerns, but in practice I think it's pretty easy to see how one is basically an ideological problem (tea-party popularizing and justifying right-wing policies by the government) and the other is a practical threat to working class, oppressed communities, and leftists. Fascism as a real movement requires a crisis where the official repressive and legal means can not contain the population - and so the fascist movement steps in to try and enforce their own order.