Ivanov and Stalin's Ape Army

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

I want to have a legitimate discussion of the real and factual research of Ivanov's interspecific hybridization research and experiments and the implications and possible functions of Stalin's ape army in terms of global struggle against capital and also what place would a human-ape hybrid individual would hypothetically have in Soviet society. To all those doubters whom are going to come in and call me a loon, suck it, this shit is real. In theory, this does seem to me and my rudimentary knowledge of genetics to be completely plausible as interspecific hybrids already do exist such as the liger and other such hybrids. The military possibilities of this endeavor seem obvious as a human-ape hybrid could potentially have numerous physical superiorities comparatively to the human military personnel. I also would like more objective data in regards to the research of Ivanov and any possible communiques between Ivanov and Stalin or any official correspondences. Again, I am super serious and I want to seriously discuss this.

[4MyNation]

I was browsing StormFront (or Fascist-Front) just now and they totally name-dropped your post.


I heard about the Soviet Ape Army experiment on History Channel before, it sounded fascinating. Too bad science simply wasn't in our favor. A strong ape army could have been just what the CCCP needed to expand and spread communism, uniting the world under the hammer and sickle.

:hammersickle:

[Brutus]

Too bad science simply wasn't in our favor. A strong ape army could have been just what the CCCP needed to expand and spread communism, uniting the world under the hammer and sickle.
I'm not sure whether this is funny or tragic.

Yeah, they got apes and tried to breed them with human women- it didn't work, obviously.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

What is more reactionary than trying to turn back the biological clock to a previous time?

I'm not Darwinist but, c'mon, is this post a joke?

[Brutus]

What is more reactionary than trying to turn back the biological clock to a previous time?

I'm not Darwinist but, c'mon, is this post a joke?

He wanted the strength of an ape with a human's intelligence. Sadly it's not a joke.

[Stalinist Speaker]

whats the sad thing about it? it was just research and it was done by volunteers. so i dont see anything bad about that, and if it would have worked it could have saved lots of lives in ww2

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

I was browsing StormFront (or Fascist-Front) just now and they totally name-dropped your post.


Lmfao, no way, really?


What is more reactionary than trying to turn back the biological clock to a previous time?

That's not the purpose of Ivanov's research.


I'm not Darwinist but, c'mon, is this post a joke?

:( I told you I was serious in the OP.


whats the sad thing about it? it was just research and it was done by volunteers. so i dont see anything bad about that, and if it would have worked it could have saved lots of lives in ww2

In what way could you say such research would have "saved lives"?

[4MyNation]

Lmfao, no way, really?


Yeah, just look at their Opposing Views section and theirs a hole thread of them bashing us!

It's okay, we beat them once, we will beat them again. The Red always win!

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Why would this have 'turned back the biological clock'? Evolution is not a linear thing, other apes are not less evolved than us, they just evolved differently.

[Goblin]

Sorry if this sounds dumb, but how were they gonna impregnate a woman with monkey semen? Would they put a woman and a monkey in a room together and then have the woman seduce the monkey? Or would they take sperm from a monkey and impregnate the woman through artificial insemination?

Or maybe it was the other way around. Maybe a male human would impregnate a female monkey?

However they tried to do this, it´s pretty interesting.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Yeah, just look at their Opposing Views section and theirs a hole thread of them bashing us!


:laugh:

That was hilarious, thanks lav, "ermergherd der terkin bert humernzeessss."

I also think it's hilarious that they bring the research of Trofim Lysenko as if it has any sort of real relevance to the discussion at all aside from it being "sciencey." Considering obviously this has everything to do with traditional Mendelian genetics and not the efforts of Lysenko. If I really had the time, I would make an account there and say "did I just blow your mind?" I'd love for any of those intellectual Stygotantulus stocki to try to step up, word for word, to the head trollrilla, Voxxy, lql, if you're to stupid to wrap your head around what I'm saying then sure, poke fun.

Moving forward (and back on topic), does any possibly have the abstracts or notes of Ivanov related to this subject? Or anything at all to offer as far as objective data is concerned? :(


Sorry if this sounds dumb, but how were they gonna impregnate a woman with monkey semen? Would they put a woman and a monkey in a room together and then have the woman seduce the monkey? Or would they take sperm from a monkey and impregnate the woman through artificial insemination?

Or maybe it was the other way around. Maybe a male human would impregnate a female monkey?

However they tried to do this, it´s pretty interesting.

Initially Ivanov's experiments were conducted using male human sperm and artificially inseminating it into a female chimpanzee. Later, he was able to have a series of female human volunteers whom he was going to try to artificially inseminate male chimpanzee sperm however I'm not entirely sure if this part ever came to fruition. In large parts his research was hindered by the fact that obtaining healthy sexually mature chimpanzees was difficult and other numerous variables that frustrated his work. I also think I remember hearing about also him and his research team also might have taken a female human uterus and "swapped," it with a female chimpanzees so the female chimpanzee could be a better host to the human sperm and so on but again, I just remember hearing this and I'm not entirely sure about that hence this thread.

[EdvardK]

Can anyone provide any useful links with regards to this "stalin's ape army"? The name is very suitable, otherwise :)

[ckaihatsu]

I heard about the Soviet Ape Army experiment on History Channel before, it sounded fascinating. Too bad science simply wasn't in our favor. A strong ape army could have been just what the CCCP needed to expand and spread communism, uniting the world under the hammer and sickle.

:hammersickle:


Um....

(I think warfare stopped being about absolute physical muscular strength quite some time ago....)

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Can anyone provide any useful links with regards to this "stalin's ape army"? The name is very suitable, otherwise :)

link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ivanovich_Ivanov)

link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanzee)

@Ismail, you're seriously disappointing me right now, how the fuck have you not commented or contributed anything yet? :crying: Out of all the people who I thought would know...

[Popular Front of Judea]

Best. Revleft. Thread. Ever.

Just be thankful this line of inquiry did not progress further. We would have to endure long threads earnestly discussing whether or not the former Soviet Union was a "hybrid workers state"...

[Comrade Samuel]

I was browsing StormFront (or Fascist-Front) just now and they totally name-dropped your post.


I heard about the Soviet Ape Army experiment on History Channel before, it sounded fascinating. Too bad science simply wasn't in our favor. A strong ape army could have been just what the CCCP needed to expand and spread communism, uniting the world under the hammer and sickle.

:hammersickle:

Disclaimer: this thread will single-handedly kill every living brain cell you have left.

[4MyNation]

Um....

(I think warfare stopped being about absolute physical muscular strength quite some time ago....)

The only time first world armies use their guns is against guerrillas (who are funded by first world countries ofcourse).

War is completely psychologically now. It's all about deception, manipulation, and infiltration. Of course I don't plan to resort to unethical measures to get my point across (yet...)

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Best. Revleft. Thread. Ever.


I know.


Disclaimer: this thread will single-handedly kill every living brain cell you have left.

:rolleyes:

Again, if you can't wrap your head about it or atleast be open to an honest discussion of the subject then don't post. It makes perfect sense.

[synthesis]

Think he was talking about the SF thread.

[DasFapital]

they could have ended up with beings that had the strength of a human and the intelligence of an ape as opposed to the other way around.

[Rusty Shackleford]

What a fucking dumb program. For real.


Sure, its a novel idea. But, if that is the whole point of the research, to cross breed humans and apes, then fuck, im floored by this. I'm not very surprised, because that is what science is half the time. Trying to make dumb shit happen.

[Popular Front of Judea]

Hey that's what it says in Wikipedia. "Science is the methodical pursuit of trying to make dumb shit happen."


I'm not very surprised, because that is what science is half the time. Trying to make dumb shit happen.

[Stalinist Speaker]

well if there wouldnt been humans fighting they wouldnt have died. and if the apes were successful they would probably be able to win against the nazis easier.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Yeah, self-emancipation of the proletariat is for the apes.

[Lenin1986]

I'm not sure whether this is funny or tragic.

Yeah, they got apes and tried to breed them with human women- it didn't work, obviously.

I don't no whether to laugh or cry, that's really messed up and tragic.

:star2: :marx: :engles: :trotski: :che: :castro: :star2:

[Comrade Jacob]

I'm not sure if this is real or just a troll. (Mainly due to an ape with a soviet uniform for your avatar).

[Art Vandelay]

I'm not sure if this is real or just a troll. (Mainly due to an ape with a soviet uniform for your avatar).

Vox Populi ain't no troll yo.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

I'm not sure if this is real or just a troll. (Mainly due to an ape with a soviet uniform for your avatar).

It's real, I said that in OP but everyone is acting like their 12 due to subject matter when I'm trying to have a serious discussion. :( Le sighhhhhhhh.

[Old Bolshie]

I don't see why there is so much bad noise about this thread. The experiments were real and Ivanov eventually ended up arrested and exiled for it.

The issue here is that the talk about the purpose of the experiment being the creation of a super warrior half man half ape for a future Stalin's super army is more a myth than reality for three reasons. Firstly, because the project and the experiments began before Stalin became de facto leader of USSR. Secondly, because Ivanov got arrested and the experiments ended precisely in the early years of Stalin's leadership. Thirdly, because there isn't any documental proof or other evidence backing it.

[adipocere]

I'm not sure if this is real or just a troll. (Mainly due to an ape with a soviet uniform for your avatar).

It's real and that is actually hilarious. :laugh:

edit: It took Vox Populi almost 500 posts to get around to the real reason for being on Revleft. I'm sorry, I'm just kidding. It is pretty funny though.

[Rafiq]

Why hasn't more research been conducted like this?

[adipocere]

Why hasn't more research been conducted like this?

The whole thing was based on a fairly primitive understanding of biology with primitive technology - it wasn't possible. Now I think people feel it's unethical and pointless. There are a lot of regulation that prohibit cruel treatment of animals. Sure we made some scientific progress in medicine from doing brutal shit to animals, but the fact that we don't do research like that anymore says more about the progress of human society then creepy adventures into eugenics ever did.

[Skyhilist]

Why hasn't more research been conducted like this?

Not sure if serious or being sarcastic...

If you're serious though, it's because humans and apes aren't closely related enough for the DNA to be a close enough match to produce viable offspring.

Also I'd like to point out that if two "species" can produce sexually viable offspring, they are by definition not two separate species. This is a definition that gets broken a lot though since we're still learning a lot about the phylogenetic relationships that exist in nature.

Also, I find it very arrogant when humans think that they can better something that has constantly been bettered and refined by natural selection for hundreds of millions of years.

[ckaihatsu]

I'll note that this historical anecdote epitomizes the typical Western-scientific veering to the 'nature' side of the nature-vs.-nurture equation -- even if successful, who's to say that such hybrid primates would become *politicized* as desired, into tankies -- ?

Conditioning *any* sentient creature to a particular ideology / worldview would require controlling their social environment, from birth, to extents beyond those required even for a standing professional army -- and even then just a little 'education' from outside could raise the individual's consciousness and destroy such carefully controlled conditioning.

Institutional science would rather look to "hard-wired", *genetic* causes for much of human behavior, rather than have to get 'messy' with examinations of *social* factors across a whole population of unique individual life histories.