Who are "stormcloudsgathering"

[Alan OldStudent]

Anybody know anything about these people? I saw this video (http://youtu.be/8Zq4f6WYmHU) and was appalled by the antisemitic remarks that people posted in the comments section.

Regards,
Alan OldStudent
The unexamined life is not worth living--Socrates

[d3crypt]

They make prettty good videos.

[Skyhilist]

A lot of the people in the comments seemed to have turned anti-Zionism into antisemitism. It's an unfortunate and reactionary occurance, but it happens quite a bit with people affected by Zionism because islamist groups around them are often anti-Semitic. They see Zionists (who happen to be Jewish) committing atrocities in Palestine and then they hear Islamists or other far right groups spewing anti-Semitic stuff. The combination of those two increases antisemitism unfortunately.

[Comrade Jacob]

They have made a few good videos but they unfortunately stir up anti-Semitism. (As seen by the top comment). Some people can see that it's fucked up but they can't make the connection that it isn't the Jews.

[Popular Front of Judea]

It's repackaged "anarcho-capitalism". The "Road To World War 3" starts with the US going off the gold standard in '71. Much "fusion paranoia" to be found on their website.

If you are willing to keep your cards close to your chest and have a strong stomach you can have fun in such a milieu. If you are a follower of Lin Biao you should be all for dissolving the United States central government and reducing the United States to a collection of powerless political and ethnic enclaves. Bring the Great Satan down from within I say. ;)

[MarxSchmarx]

I couldn't be bothered to watch the whole thing, but for anybody that did, please post the time (m:sec) where there are specifically anti-semitic/pro-cappie remarks and if it checks out I will plan move this to OI.

[Alan OldStudent]

I couldn't be bothered to watch the whole thing, but for anybody that did, please post the time (m:sec) where there are specifically anti-semitic/pro-cappie remarks and if it checks out I will plan move this to OI.

Hello MarxSchmarx,

It was not in the video that I saw antisemitism. It was in the growing number of remarks. And there were so many of them. Because of my background and the era I grew up in, I'm quite sensitive to antisemitism.

I agree with Skwisgaar's analysis (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2658260&postcount=3). Unfortunately, political Zionists equate opposition to political Zionism as being the same as antisemitism. And antisemites try to pin the blame for Israeli policy on the Jews as a people, playing on Zionism's false (in my opinion) claim they are acting in the interests of Jews as a whole.

It's really an ironic tragedy because Zionism has managed to ally Jews with their historical enemies, i.e. racists, reactionaries, ultra-Christians, imperialist powers, obscurantists, irredentists. At the same time, Zionism has placed itself in opposition to Jews' historic allies, i.e. liberation fighters, progressive intellectuals, unionists, civil rights activists, socialists, and so on.

I find the whole thing emotionally wrenching.

What disturbed me so much was this: Had I seen maybe one or even 2 antisemitic remarks underneath this video, I probably would have shrugged my shoulders and written it off to youthful ignorance or a few misguided cranks.

But there were so many antisemitic remarks, and they seemed so virulent, even manipulative. Moreover, the name of the group that posted the video (Storm Clouds Gathering) initially made me wonder what connection they might have with Stormfront.

I thought some of the comrades around here might know something about them, because I'd never heard of them until today, when I found a link to the video.

Regards,

Alan OldStudent
The unexamined life is not worth living--Socrates

[Popular Front of Judea]

Looks like a thread needs to be started about the conspiratorial Right passing as concerned liberals and "fusion paranoia". These people have learned to fly under the radar, at least at first. Not surprising for anti-semites to catch the the underlying vibe.

[#FF0000]

Pretty clear libertarian/right-wing populist channel, I gather from watching a couple of videos. As such it isn't really surprising that anti-semites and racists are commenting since 1. it's youtube and 2. weirdo conspiracy people and racists of all sorts flock to right-wing populist rhetoric like moths to flame.


They make prettty good videos

Broken clocks being right twice a day doesn't make them good, dogg.

[RedBen]

seems to be a zeitgeist clone at first impression.

[Glitchcraft]

Looks like a thread needs to be started about the conspiratorial Right passing as concerned liberals and "fusion paranoia". These people have learned to fly under the radar, at least at first. Not surprising for anti-semites to catch the the underlying vibe.

Yeah I agree. Stuff like this seems to regularly occur. Anarcho Capitalists and Libertarians get into some current movement like Occupy or AntiWar groups and start to widen the politics of these movements. Especially groups whose only prerequisite is "be anti war" or something. I've commonly thought that these obstensibly progressive groups bring a lot of disorder to loosely assembled organizations. Next thing you know Occupy becomes a campaign for Democrats.

[MarxSchmarx]

Hello MarxSchmarx,

It was not in the video that I saw antisemitism. It was in the growing number of remarks. And there were so many of them. Because of my background and the era I grew up in, I'm quite sensitive to antisemitism.

I agree with Skwisgaar's analysis (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2658260&postcount=3). Unfortunately, political Zionists equate opposition to political Zionism as being the same as antisemitism. And antisemites try to pin the blame for Israeli policy on the Jews as a people, playing on Zionism's false (in my opinion) claim they are acting in the interests of Jews as a whole.

It's really an ironic tragedy because Zionism has managed to ally Jews with their historical enemies, i.e. racists, reactionaries, ultra-Christians, imperialist powers, obscurantists, irredentists. At the same time, Zionism has placed itself in opposition to Jews' historic allies, i.e. liberation fighters, progressive intellectuals, unionists, civil rights activists, socialists, and so on.

I find the whole thing emotionally wrenching.

What disturbed me so much was this: Had I seen maybe one or even 2 antisemitic remarks underneath this video, I probably would have shrugged my shoulders and written it off to youthful ignorance or a few misguided cranks.

But there were so many antisemitic remarks, and they seemed so virulent, even manipulative. Moreover, the name of the group that posted the video (Storm Clouds Gathering) initially made me wonder what connection they might have with Stormfront.

I thought some of the comrades around here might know something about them, because I'd never heard of them until today, when I found a link to the video.

Regards,

Alan OldStudent
The unexamined life is not worth living--Socrates

Ao:

Hmm. well since the link is to the video rather than the comments per se, I think for the time being linking to the video and talking about it among leftists as opposed to via the Youtube comment feature is fine. I'll keep this thread here for now unless I hear otherwise,
MS

[#FF0000]

Yeah I agree. Stuff like this seems to regularly occur. Anarcho Capitalists and Libertarians get into some current movement like Occupy or AntiWar groups and start to widen the politics of these movements. Especially groups whose only prerequisite is "be anti war" or something. I've commonly thought that these obstensibly progressive groups bring a lot of disorder to loosely assembled organizations. Next thing you know Occupy becomes a campaign for Democrats.

Or a hodge-podge of weirdo conspiracy dorks and populists with no defined politics.

[TAEHSAEN]

Aaron (the creator of Storm Clouds Gathering) is actually a very decent guy who just wants change. Prima Facie, it will seem as if hes a nutjob or something, but in reality he's a really great guy.

I actually know him personally (over the internet of course) and he genuinely cares about others. Although he tries his best to not reveal his political ideologies, he is a free market capitalist at heart.

His primary goal is to unite all revolutionary groups, both marxists and free market advocates, by finding a common ground (i.e change). He has no other ulterior motives.

I know a lot of his videos get antisemitic comments, but he ALWAYS defends jews whenever stuff like this comes up. He deletes antisemitic people form his group and unfriends anyone who mentions antisemitic things to him.

So yeah, I'm just defending him because he is a person I really admire. He is an activist for humanity in the truest sense (online, AND in the real world).

I completely understand why a person might get the wrong impression of him due to his youtube followers and such, but its my personal and strong opinion that he has a genuine heart.

[Per Levy]

He is an activist for humanity in the truest sense.


Although he tries his best to not reveal his political ideologies, he is a free market capitalist at heart.

these 2 things dont go together, tbh.


His primary goal is to unite all revolutionary groups, both marxists and free market advocates, by finding a common ground (i.e change).

yay, "querfront" strageties, but come on, how do you want to unite cappies and commies when the commies cant even find common ground themselfs and they all want the same after all. this will never work, actual communists wont work with libertarians.

[TAEHSAEN]

these 2 things dont go together, tbh.



yay, "querfront" strageties, but come on, how do you want to unite cappies and commies when the commies cant even find common ground themselfs and they all want the same after all. this will never work, actual communists wont work with libertarians.

Well, we have to believe that our position is the superior one and eventually they will adopt our philosophy.

He actually gave Resource Based Economy his best shot, in order to see if it was something that would actually be successful.

But unfortunately, he was disappointed with what he saw. He brought on some notable Zeitgeist bloggers / activists to his channel for debates but all of them failed to show how RBE can actually work in reality (its practicality).

The main reason for this is because most RBE / Zeitgeist advocates try to disassociate themselves from communism, so they get DESTROYED when posed with tough questions that cannot be answered through simplified RBE models (but CAN be answered through marxist ideologies).


Either way, I do believe I can sway his opinion towards the left one day!

Who knows, what I know is that in 2008 he was a libertarian (used to support Ron Paul, but not any more). But in 5 years he might have become a liberal by now and many of his videos do indicate some liberal beliefs! :D

However, he's not left enough and that's a problem! :tongue_smilie:

[TAEHSAEN]

these 2 things dont go together, tbh.



yay, "querfront" strageties, but come on, how do you want to unite cappies and commies when the commies cant even find common ground themselfs and they all want the same after all. this will never work, actual communists wont work with libertarians.
Oh and to answer your last question, he advocates a system where all major and viable philosophical / economic models would run side by side.

While that sounds appealing in theory, whether that is practical is another question.

[GerrardWinstanley]

I don't know, but he obviously gets a lot of the same traffic as snordelhans (now Snordster), who is a real anti-semite.

I don't think StormCloudsGathering is one himself, but he certainly belongs to the more conspiratorial-minded section of the left, employing more fascist than Marxist rhetoric, so I suspect this is the reason for his appeal among people who probably read Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

[helot]

Oh and to answer your last question, he advocates a system where all major and viable philosophical / economic models would run side by side.

While that sounds appealing in theory, whether that is practical is another question.

Such a claim is used to try to refute our analysis about how capitalism functions. It is the last argument of a flawed debate, existing solely to save face. It's an empty gesture and when pushed they will state that property rights trumps the workers' need for the means of life.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Yeah, this guy isn't my cup of tea.

Anti-capitalists have zero interests in collaborating with libertarian and AnCap scum. Considering we'll be looking at them through rifle sights if things go our way.

Also, their positions regarding pro-capitalist policies and property rights make them far more susceptible to becoming fascists than revolutionaries. Considering both libertarianism and fascism are petite-bourgeois populist movements.

[helot]

Yeah, this guy isn't my cup of tea.

Anti-capitalists have zero interests in collaborating with libertarian and AnCap scum. Considering we'll be looking at them through rifle sights if things go our way.

Also, their positions regarding pro-capitalist policies and property rights make them far more susceptible to becoming fascists than revolutionaries. Considering both libertarianism and fascism are petite-bourgeois populist movements.


omg this. It really is the whining of the petit bourgeoisie "waaah, i'd be rich if it wasn't for these corporations getting favours from the state"

[ВАЛТЕР]

omg this. It really is the whining of the petit bourgeoisie "waaah, i'd be rich if it wasn't for these corporations getting favours from the state"

It's just the way the petite-bourgeoisie perceive the crisis. They know something is wrong, however their position as small-capitalists shuts down their thinking that maybe, just maybe, capitalism is at fault. Instead they get drawn into conspiracy theories, LOLbertarianism, and ancap nonsense. It's petite-bourgeois moralism at best.

[redguarddude]

"His primary goal is to unite all revolutionary groups, both marxists and free market advocates, by finding a common ground (i.e change). He has no other ulterior motives."

This has to strike you as at least a little bit weird. He want's to unite people who believe in a dog eat dog competitive society, with those of us who believe that access to housing, employment (or income if unable to work), healthcare and education, should be a right?

This makes absolutely no sense.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Well, he won't get many leftists on his side, that's for sure. Any Marxist worth his/her salt won't buy a second of that rhetoric.

[el mosquito]

i thought at first it was funded by the koch brothers