syrian airforce firebombs school playground

[Sasha]

video here (obviously very shocking footage): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-23892594


Syria crisis: Incendiary bomb victims 'like the walking dead'

A BBC team inside Syria filming for Panorama has witnessed the aftermath of a fresh horrific incident - an incendiary bomb dropped on to a school playground in the north of the country - which has left scores of children with napalm-like burns over their bodies.
Eyewitnesses describe a fighter jet dropping the device, a low explosion, followed by columns of fire and smoke.
Ian Pannell and cameraman Darren Conway's report contains images viewers may find extremely distressing.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

why? why why why why why??

[Ann Egg]

ahahahahahha

BBC as a source on Syria? double ahahahhahahha. Same BBC that pretends photos of Iraqi children killed by Bush and Blair are photos of children killed by Asshead in Syria? am i the only one that remembers that?

that was some poor acting too. those people have been living in a warzone for over 2 years now, they should know how burn victims behave. with such severe burns, the children wouldn't be moving and acting for the cameras at all. the pain would be excruciating and the skin would crack and bleed like crazy if they did. and am I the only one that noticed the woman "victim"? she is fully clothed. i wonder why that is, didn't everybody else's clothes just burn off?(lol). oh I know, that's right, when the rebels stage propaganda shoots like this, they can't dress the women as burn victims - that would necessitate taking their veils off.

And look at that damage in the "school". entirely inconsistent with napalm airstrikes. Napalm would have scorched the entire yard, and the size of the crater is way off. it's not white phosphorous either, that detonates overhead, 70 feet in the air. they probably shelled that "school" with a mortar themselves to pass it off as napalm strike.

rebel propaganda is as stupid as syrian propaganda, you have to be an idiot to believe either.

[Sasha]

you claim panorama would fake this to help camarons war effort?
you are insane.

[Ann Egg]

are al-qaeda compounds used for training their child soldiers considered "schools", by the way?
i.im gur.com/V4BH4Q3.jpg

[Ann Egg]

you claim panorama would fake this to help camarons war effort?
you are insane.
of course I am, are you some sort of idiot? BBC is part of the massive apitalist propaganda apparatus of the british state and does its best to promote the interests of said capitalist state. you can side with the british state, its propaganda apparatus, it's repressive institutions, its police, and the rest, which are all intimately inter-connected, but I'd rather not. it's called being a left radical.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

why? why why why why why??

Evidence seems to suggest that if you give people weapons, train them to kill people, and give them massive material privilege connected to killing people, they turn a bit trigger-happy. And the SAR is no exception.

That said, the video does seem odd. Some of the burns look real enough, and I can't comment on the scorch marks and craters, but I also noticed the intact clothes of the woman, and that the behaviour of the children seemed... scripted. The timing of the report is also, ah, serendipitous.

I know psycho thinks I am only writing this because I'm an anti-imp devil who goes to bed singing Ya Šabab al-Orb, but the Leninist opposition to imperialist war in Syria and religious imperialist-funded insurgents is not connected to any illusions about the bourgeois Assad regime.

[IllumiNaughty]

i lol'ed at this vid. It's obviously fake and none of them look like they were actually burned. They sure are starting to churn out the propaganda!

[Decolonize The Left]

The whole damn situation is fucked. This is the only takeaway from the 'news.' And it's only going to get worse. Leftist support goes solely to the Syrian working class who will be, as always, mercilessly cast aside by now three different war-mongering parties.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

yeah, i'm sure the kids are lying about their fucking burns.

Seriously, you people. It's like you can just pretend some kids are not human or real just to suit your ideological purposes.

Real 'left radicals' you guys are, properly caring about the welfare of those less fortunate than you - dismissing what seems like horrific, horrific injuries to defend some dictator who got his capitalist job through....nepotism. Fuck sake.

[adipocere]

I watched it with the sound off. What I saw was a mostly undamaged empty building with a swimming pool(?) that had apparently been hit by shells. I saw smouldering mens' shoes that looked like they had been burned in a small fire - I can't tell the shot was too close up - and a child's shoe intentionally placed on a ledge. There was also a shiny child seat or something, that clearly was not damaged. After that, I saw some people who appeared to be burned as if they were close to something that blew up.

I agree those people were injured. I think it is odd that so many men of fighting age would be in a "school" with so few children. I also think it is odd that any school with such young children (as placed objects would suggest) would have a swimming pool like that....not to mention look like an empty luxury home.

My opinion is that I just saw footage of two separate things, an empty shelled upscale house with a few objects placed around it and separately a small group of people who were injured from being in close proximity to something that was very hot.

Unfortunately there was no obliging BBC crew to film the aftermath of this (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/13/syria-bombing-near-school_n_2291148.html) in High Def.

Propaganda videos aside, we should not forget what is actually going on (http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2013/May-06/216143-red-cross-urges-swift-evacuation-of-syrias-dead-and-wounded.ashx) in Syria.

[The Intransigent Faction]

yeah, i'm sure the kids are lying about their fucking burns.

Seriously, you people. It's like you can just pretend some kids are not human or real just to suit your ideological purposes.

Real 'left radicals' you guys are, properly caring about the welfare of those less fortunate than you - dismissing what seems like horrific, horrific injuries to defend some dictator who got his capitalist job through....nepotism. Fuck sake.

Hey, is it not possible to question the authenticity of a specific piece of evidence from a source perfectly capable of lying while still maintaining that Assad is, on the whole, a brutal dictator whose regime has done awful things?

[Tim Cornelis]

ahahahahahha

BBC as a source on Syria? double ahahahhahahha. Same BBC that pretends photos of Iraqi children killed by Bush and Blair are photos of children killed by Asshead in Syria? am i the only one that remembers that?

that was some poor acting too. those people have been living in a warzone for over 2 years now, they should know how burn victims behave. with such severe burns, the children wouldn't be moving and acting for the cameras at all. the pain would be excruciating and the skin would crack and bleed like crazy if they did. and am I the only one that noticed the woman "victim"? she is fully clothed. i wonder why that is, didn't everybody else's clothes just burn off?(lol). oh I know, that's right, when the rebels stage propaganda shoots like this, they can't dress the women as burn victims - that would necessitate taking their veils off.

And look at that damage in the "school". entirely inconsistent with napalm airstrikes. Napalm would have scorched the entire yard, and the size of the crater is way off. it's not white phosphorous either, that detonates overhead, 70 feet in the air. they probably shelled that "school" with a mortar themselves to pass it off as napalm strike.

rebel propaganda is as stupid as syrian propaganda, you have to be an idiot to believe either.

Fuck you asshole. How can you laugh at the situation, even if you believe it's fake? Have some fucking decency you idiot.

When Israel attacked Palestine there was a woman trapped in the rubble, the idiots started covering her up. Have you considered that the woman may have been dressed? I'm not saying this happened, I'm saying you can't be this sure that it warrants you behaving like a fucking idiot, laughing like that. Fuck you.

And of course, Assad is Mr. Holly, of course it's not a school, of course everything is fake. Of course, of course!




I agree those people were injured. I think it is odd that so many men of fighting age would be in a "school" with so few children.

You don't think parents pick their children up from school?


i lol'ed at this vid. It's obviously fake and none of them look like they were actually burned. They sure are starting to churn out the propaganda!

Super edgy man! You so cool, you must be the coolest guy in school huh. Yeah, you know it's fake, weapons expert and everything huh. Yeah. They just acted like that, they just burned their skin for fake to make good ol' Assad look bad.

Go fuck yourself. How can you be so dismissive that you LAUGH, not just dismiss it, provide reasons, but fucking LAUGH. Yeah, it's that obvious. Confirmation bias in favour of Mr. Assad, bonapartist idiot.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I guess its time for some full arsed US cruise missiles.

Its quite saddening and maddening to think about Syria some times.

[Red_Banner]

That "school" looks more like a house.

[Tim Cornelis]

Hey, is it not possible to question the authenticity of a specific piece of evidence from a source perfectly capable of lying while still maintaining that Assad is, on the whole, a brutal dictator whose regime has done awful things?

Questioning authenticity is different than just dismissing something and laughing at it. There are thousands of reasons you can think of why something looks peculiar. But of course, it's all propaganda because the school looks a bit like a villa (many reasons why this may be), or a child's shoe being put that way (many reasons), or clothed people.

http://www.vjtadventures.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Vietnam-Napalm-Girl1.jpg

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/Ev2dEqrN4i0/hqdefault.jpg

But no, these fucking assholes immediately assume innocence of the regime cuz, cuz, cuz they have a weak for Bonapartist scum. Using their reasons we may as well deny US use of napalm in Vietnam, because: HHAHAHAHAHHAHA SOOOO FAAAKE, THEY HAVE CLOTHES BUT THAT WOULD HAVE BE BURNT OFF, HAHAHHA.

Idiots.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Its a school, its a real hit by a real weapon, and those are real injuries.


upon watching it though it was like a circus of pain that just had to be put on now. Still, the rebels are nothing to cheer on.

This was almost creepy to watch knowing how probably sadistic the camera man may be to dance around and film people like that.

I wouldnt believe that either the government of even the most dickheaded rebel would willfully and knowingly bomb a school.

[#FF0000]

I can understand why people would be skeptical of this, considering the rebels have been trying to stage things to provoke foreign intervention this entire time.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I can understand why people would be skeptical of this, considering the rebels have been trying to stage things to provoke foreign intervention this entire time.

that shit was real im sure of it, who is being accused or whatever is hardly discussed. but they way it is shown makes it look like a circus. a terrible, sadistic, circus.

The way the reporters are showing it is what makes it so bad. That and the reporter says 'chemica;' very clearly when talking about the stench.

[Sasha]

I wouldnt believe that either the government of even the most dickheaded rebel would willfully and knowingly bomb a school.

The Syrian regime is shooting ballistic missles at Aleppo, half its population is under 18, they really don't care anymore, they just want to terrorise the opposition into submission, they are exactly as al-nusra.

[Rusty Shackleford]

The Syrian regime is shooting ballistic missles at Aleppo, half its population is under 18, they really don't care anymore, they just want to terrorise the opposition into submission, they are exactly as al-nusra.

terrorize when they are winning? The US will be shooting ballistic(cruise) missiles at cities but they are not as al-nusra? also, have you not hear that there have been hundreds of thousands of evacuees? and people dont tend to stay right in the thick of the fighting.

that being said, where at the cities were the SCUDs (im assuming) being fired?

[Sasha]

this was February: http://www.amnestyusa.org/science/explore/syria/, but they kept it up since then, yes, there are rebel headquarters in the general area of these strikes but shooting stuff that levels whole blocks at tightly packed cities is inexcusable, be it US army or Assad regime, and at least the US tomohawks are aimed sort of, what Assad is using is just V2 warfare, aim in the general direction and the rest is up to God.

[Brotto Rühle]

That's some awful stuff happening in Syria, and it's totally super frustrating to see people laugh at it, because they think everything is bourgeois fake moon landing-esque propaganda. I think I speak for Tim and everyone else with a brain, when I say "fuck Assad" and "fuck the rebels too". Stop picking which bourgeois faction is better, recognize that if one side is doing shit like this and the other isn't, it doesn't mean we support the less aggressive just because we are outraged at the attack. It means we are Fucking outraged at the attack. Nor does it mean we support imperialist intervention.

[The Intransigent Faction]

Questioning authenticity is different than just dismissing something and laughing at it. There are thousands of reasons you can think of why something looks peculiar. But of course, it's all propaganda because the school looks a bit like a villa (many reasons why this may be), or a child's shoe being put that way (many reasons), or clothed people.

http://www.vjtadventures.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Vietnam-Napalm-Girl1.jpg

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/Ev2dEqrN4i0/hqdefault.jpg

But no, these fucking assholes immediately assume innocence of the regime cuz, cuz, cuz they have a weak for Bonapartist scum. Using their reasons we may as well deny US use of napalm in Vietnam, because: HHAHAHAHAHHAHA SOOOO FAAAKE, THEY HAVE CLOTHES BUT THAT WOULD HAVE BE BURNT OFF, HAHAHHA.

Idiots.

Yeah, fair enough. It's terrible no matter which 'side's children are suffering. I'm not questioning that. I just have a knee-jerk skepticism toward emotional arguments (especially from somewhere like the BBC), and pictures like these by their very nature tend to play mostly or entirely on emotion (as they ought to for anyone with sympathy). Keeping things in context is important. It's all the more easy for Assad to get away with stuff like that under the guise of opposing foreign-backed rebels, precisely because of how real and terrible the alternative to Assad is as well.

I want this to be put forward as evidence of how oppressive Assad's regime is. I DON'T want it to be put forward as some justification for Western intervention or for the 'opposition' as it stands now. In the BBC's case, the aim is almost certainly the latter, so they're likely to turn it into, as Rusty said, a circus for the benefit of their own political aims.

[brigadista]

on the subject of the bbc film - how fortunate the british doctor just happened to be there
at the same time as the film crew to explain what happened.....

half the time apart from the suffering of the Syrian people i am very unsure of what I am seeing- terrible cynical reporting and so timely just after the parliamentary debate..

[Rusty Shackleford]

So, a more humanitarian bomb, because it is accurate? To fit with humanitarian intervention? Would a car bomb that can be pretty accurate be more humanitarian?


SCUDs can be wildly inaccurate but they are not like V2s. They do not leave the atmosphere or go to the limits of the atmosphere. Also, any piece of weaponry is aimed. Tomohawks are guided, SCUDS are aimed but not guided.


I saw some footage of fighting in Qusaiyr. An entire city block was empty of anyone but military personnel of either side. On the far outskirts of the fights yes there were civillians.

That being said, is it possible the FSA also shields itself with urban populations?


If i recall correctly, a wedding in Afghanistan was bombed by a drone. Why? because they guys operating the drone thought it was terrorists.


This argument goes both ways but the point is that just because a piece of weaponry is more accurate does not make it any better.


I would believe that a neighborhood may have been hit that was not an FSA area, but i doubt that it was intentional. The wisdom of using unguided ballistic missiles in such situations is questionable though.

[Ann Egg]

yeah, i'm sure the kids are lying about their fucking burns.
why is that not believable? there are tons of videos online that show the rebels forcing kids to behead pro-asshead civilians. there are tons of videos online that show rebels using child soldiers. there are tons of videos online showing rebels forcing kids and women to fire their mortars for them(because rebel homemade mortar shells frequently malfunction and because the ones they buy on the black market are often shells that were spiked on purpose by the asshead regime)


Seriously, you people. It's like you can just pretend some kids are not human or real just to suit your ideological purposes.
oh no think of the children! bawww the child must be thought of!


Real 'left radicals' you guys are, properly caring about the welfare of those less fortunate than you - dismissing what seems like horrific, horrific injuries to defend some dictator who got his capitalist job through....nepotism. Fuck sake.
oh just fuck off, who is defending asshead? the war in syria is an inter-capitalist dispute, radicals have no stake in it. none of the sides deserve support.

[khad]

So, a more humanitarian bomb, because it is accurate? To fit with humanitarian intervention? Would a car bomb that can be pretty accurate be more humanitarian?


SCUDs can be wildly inaccurate but they are not like V2s. They do not leave the atmosphere or go to the limits of the atmosphere. Also, any piece of weaponry is aimed. Tomohawks are guided, SCUDS are aimed but not guided.

Depends. AFAIK, Syria has received the Scud-D upgrade, which does have a 50m CEP


I saw some footage of fighting in Qusaiyr. An entire city block was empty of anyone but military personnel of either side. On the far outskirts of the fights yes there were civillians.

That being said, is it possible the FSA also shields itself with urban populations?In Qusayr, according to Lebanese negotiators, the rebels prevented the last 20% of civilians from leaving because that made them easier targets. Regardless, far more civilians returned to Qusayr following the battle. Not just the evacuees but many of the families who had fled the initial FSA/Nusra takeover.


I would believe that a neighborhood may have been hit that was not an FSA area, but i doubt that it was intentional. The wisdom of using unguided ballistic missiles in such situations is questionable though.That was no scud strike, or an air strike for that matter. Apart from the crater and some burned bricks, there was minimal damage to the building. The Scud type missile has a nearly 1000kg payload. With that much napalm or explosive, you're looking at the leveling of a city block, at least.

This looks much more like a mortar shell, given the plunging angle and the relatively small crater. An artillery shell would have been more likely to have left perforations of the building itself.

You want to know what kind of damage a 500kg bomb does? Check out this crater from Fallujah:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2004/09/03/international/iraq.large1.jpg

See the difference?
http://i.imgur.com/k6f1l22.png

[Ann Egg]

Fuck you asshole. How can you laugh at the situation, even if you believe it's fake? Have some fucking decency you idiot.
go fuck yourself too, i'll laugh at what I want. rebels producing horrible obviously fake propaganda is funny to me because they are apparently stupid enough to think they can pass this shit off as genuine.


When Israel attacked Palestine there was a woman trapped in the rubble, the idiots started covering her up. Have you considered that the woman may have been dressed? I'm not saying this happened, I'm saying you can't be this sure that it warrants you behaving like a fucking idiot, laughing like that. Fuck you.
are you mentally handicapped or something who the fuck would cover up horrific "napalm burns" with dirty fucking clothes do you even know how burn victim treatment works like? let me give you a hint: the point isn't to do everything in your power to make sure the burn victim gets a fucking infection. it's the exact opposite.


And of course, Assad is Mr. Holly, of course it's not a school, of course everything is fake. Of course, of course!
if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

[Ann Egg]

https://i1.ytimg.com/vi/Ev2dEqrN4i0/hqdefault.jpg

But no, these fucking assholes immediately assume innocence of the regime cuz, cuz, cuz they have a weak for Bonapartist scum. Using their reasons we may as well deny US use of napalm in Vietnam, because: HHAHAHAHAHHAHA SOOOO FAAAKE, THEY HAVE CLOTHES BUT THAT WOULD HAVE BE BURNT OFF, HAHAHHA.

Idiots.
that's a glaringly stupid response there son. in that photo the injured party is clearly the child. the mother or whoever she is, is merely carrying the child. she isn't injured and she isn't pretending to be injured. in the BBC video, the fully clothed woman is pretending to be a napalm burn victim. do you see the difference there buddy?

[Rusty Shackleford]

Khad, i was referring to the hits in Aleppo where they were definitely 1 ton blasts that did level city blocks.


this was February: http://www.amnestyusa.org/science/explore/syria/, but they kept it up since then, yes, there are rebel headquarters in the general area of these strikes but shooting stuff that levels whole blocks at tightly packed cities is inexcusable, be it US army or Assad regime, and at least the US tomohawks are aimed sort of, what Assad is using is just V2 warfare, aim in the general direction and the rest is up to God.

[Le Socialiste]

are you mentally handicapped or something

Ann Egg, cool it. Language like this isn't permitted here.

Verbal Warning to Ann Egg for prejudiced language.

Edit - Kinda beat you to it, Khad. ;)

[khad]

are you mentally handicapped or something who the fuck would cover up horrific "napalm burns" with dirty fucking clothes do you even know how burn victim treatment works like? let me give you a hint: the point isn't to do everything in your power to make sure the burn victim gets a fucking infection. it's the exact opposite.
You didn't use the R word, but verbal warning for using disability as an insult.

[khad]

Khad, i was referring to the hits in Aleppo where they were definitely 1 ton blasts that did level city blocks.
It's a false premise. So basically the legitimacy of military strikes is predicated on the amount of aiming one can do with a particular weapons platform.

From what I gathered, certain people would be OK with a tomahawk strike on the anti-working class Syrian government because they can be aimed. Would it imply that it would be OK for the government to use predator drones and hellfire missiles to strike individual reactionary militant targets?

Clearly weapons controls are not the answer. Precision guided munitions for everyone!

[Comrade Chernov]

I don't doubt the possibility of this being propaganda, but the wounds look real.

What I'd like to know is, if that fighter jet was a Syrian one. They didn't say what allegiance the fighter jet had, what model it was, etc., they simply said it was a fighter jet.

[Rusty Shackleford]

To be fair, the rebels have no chance in hell of getting a fighter of their own off the ground. Much less even on a run way before it probably got bombed by the Syrian Air Force.

Syria has some very capable air defenses and has air superiority.

[khad]

I don't doubt the possibility of this being propaganda, but the wounds look real.

What I'd like to know is, if that fighter jet was a Syrian one. They didn't say what allegiance the fighter jet had, what model it was, etc., they simply said it was a fighter jet.
For the last time, THIS (fallujah) was an air strike:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2004/09/03/international/iraq.large1.jpg

This was not an air strike:
http://i.imgur.com/k6f1l22.png

[Rusty Shackleford]

White Phosphorous from artillery or air.
http://www.leedspsc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/phos.jpg

Napalm from air
http://www.thephoblographer.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/24297547-04_06_2012-Vietnam-Napalm-Girl-40th04.jpg

Thermobaric Bomb from air
http://oi50.tinypic.com/23h0xok.jpg


Here is a crater from a 122mm rocket fired during the vietnam war. the payload i cannot find but here.
http://www.15thengineer.50megs.com/9th_&_66.jpg
the launcher and rocket that caused it
http://www.15thengineer.50megs.com/9th_&_64.jpg

a different 122mm rocket
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd201/DO_NO_HARM/GENERAL%20CATCH%20ALL/122mmROCKET.jpg

[Dagoth Ur]

What's really depressing is how easily some of you choke down this shit. It's just like Iraq and Afghanistan again when supposed "leftists" exposed themselves as nothing more than pro-imperialists with a slight rosy tinge. All this faux indignation is pretty pathetic too.

[Ann Egg]

Ann Egg, cool it. Language like this isn't permitted here.

Verbal Warning to Ann Egg for prejudiced language.

Edit - Kinda beat you to it, Khad. ;)
Okay sorry I get it

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Rusty sort of beat me to it but this does look like a napalm strike. I am not super knowledgable about this but what are delivery systems for napalm? Could it be delivered via a RPG? Is it dropped from a plane?

[Taters]

Rusty sort of beat me to it but this does look like a napalm strike. I am not super knowledgable about this but what are delivery systems for napalm? Could it be delivered via a RPG? Is it dropped from a plane?

Ordinarily, it's dropped from a plane. But I was under the impression that most (all?) militaries had phased out napalm.

EDIT:
Wikipedia to the rescue, this thickened pyrophoric agent (TPA) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thickened_pyrophoric_agent) is used in Mark 77 bombs and likely other bombs. It's described as a napalm successor.

[Rusty Shackleford]

An RPG has a small warhead. If it is anti-tank it will just penetrate with some shrapnel. there are fragmentation grenades too for them but the angle of the shot is as if someone shot an rpg from the sky.

There are WP grenades, im sure, there are thermoberic bombs, and there are flame throwers. cluster bombs and bomblets would produce many little incidents on the ground and not this one crater and burn out.

here is an RPG 7 (old as fuck)(the typical one you would see everyone in video games, movies, and the typical 'terrorist' rocket launcher. it has an anti-tank rocket in this video.
E7vMqbrA58Q
the whole point of that rocket is to punch a hole in metal and shoot liquit hot metal through it and damage everything on the other side of the armor.
http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2012/866/mfma491.jpg


here is an incendiary grenade.
QlQc9a6-cjU


now, there are newer and more capable rocket launchers out there like the RPG 22, and some european makes that the rebels probably have but again, it looks like it came for the sky.


but im just being an armchair CSI general here :lol:

[X5N]

I wonder how all the people saying this is obviously staged, etc., would react if it was a video of an alleged massacre committed by some opposition group.

[Rusty Shackleford]

My concern is with the reporting saying it was a napalm bomb and that it was even an aerial bomb. Those people were obviously injured.

[Teacher]

There are many fishy things about this video. I wouldn't want to risk doubting the authenticity of the victims. They seem like real injuries to me even if they are being put on display for propaganda purposes. There are a few scenes that seem strange, like the scene inside the house where they are walking/standing up in front of the camera. Part of me thinks they are being goaded by whoever is making the video to do these things.

The scene of the attack just seems bizarre to me. The children shoes look like they were put there afterwards. The building doesn't look like a school. It looks like someone randomly placed a child's toy on the premises to make it look like an area where children were supposed to be. The victims seem to be teenagers, not small children. Why are there toys/shoes from small children at the site of the attack? It all just seems very weird.

All I can say from this video is that something horrible seemed to have happen there. Who knows who did what, or what actually happened. I have trouble believing anything that is said about Syria nowadays. The timing and tone of the report seem to be very convenient to me, coming on the heels of the Parliament vote and the U.S. drumbeat for war.

[Agathor]

Oh my god you kids are fucking brain-dead.

[Geiseric]

why is that not believable? there are tons of videos online that show the rebels forcing kids to behead pro-asshead civilians. there are tons of videos online that show rebels using child soldiers. there are tons of videos online showing rebels forcing kids and women to fire their mortars for them(because rebel homemade mortar shells frequently malfunction and because the ones they buy on the black market are often shells that were spiked on purpose by the asshead regime)


oh no think of the children! bawww the child must be thought of!


oh just fuck off, who is defending asshead? the war in syria is an inter-capitalist dispute, radicals have no stake in it. none of the sides deserve support.

Who are you to make such sweeping assertions? I hope you don't claim other socialists have the same politics as you.

Also Assad is still shooting at peaceful demonstrations, so you don't really have any grasp on the real situation as it is.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

There are many fishy things about this video. I wouldn't want to risk doubting the authenticity of the victims. They seem like real injuries to me even if they are being put on display for propaganda purposes. There are a few scenes that seem strange, like the scene inside the house where they are walking/standing up in front of the camera.

I also found that scene really odd - especially since they seem to be lying there still for a second or so, then they start moving and shouting. Of course, perhaps this is normal behaviour for burn victims - I really wouldn't know. But to me, it seems suspicious.

[greenforest]

I can understand why people would be skeptical of this, considering the rebels have been trying to stage things to provoke foreign intervention this entire time.

I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but do you have examples of rebels trying to stage government atrocities?

[greenforest]

Its a school, its a real hit by a real weapon, and those are real injuries.


upon watching it though it was like a circus of pain that just had to be put on now. Still, the rebels are nothing to cheer on.

This was almost creepy to watch knowing how probably sadistic the camera man may be to dance around and film people like that.

I wouldnt believe that either the government of even the most dickheaded rebel would willfully and knowingly bomb a school.

Do you think the rebels are more monolithic than the ones during the Iraq war?

I assume there was more nuanced support for those rebels than these.

[greenforest]

terrorize when they are winning? The US will be shooting ballistic(cruise) missiles at cities but they are not as al-nusra? also, have you not hear that there have been hundreds of thousands of evacuees? and people dont tend to stay right in the thick of the fighting.

that being said, where at the cities were the SCUDs (im assuming) being fired?

The government isn't winning in the region this airstrike occurred. They lost a crucial supply route to the city of Aleppo a week ago.

Of course, one could point out the regime was terrorizing demonstrators from the very beginning. You can terrorize a people and be firmly in control, which is not even currently the situation now in Syria.

[IllumiNaughty]

Fuck you asshole. How can you laugh at the situation, even if you believe it's fake? Have some fucking decency you idiot.

When Israel attacked Palestine there was a woman trapped in the rubble, the idiots started covering her up. Have you considered that the woman may have been dressed? I'm not saying this happened, I'm saying you can't be this sure that it warrants you behaving like a fucking idiot, laughing like that. Fuck you.

And of course, Assad is Mr. Holly, of course it's not a school, of course everything is fake. Of course, of course!



You don't think parents pick their children up from school?



Super edgy man! You so cool, you must be the coolest guy in school huh. Yeah, you know it's fake, weapons expert and everything huh. Yeah. They just acted like that, they just burned their skin for fake to make good ol' Assad look bad.

Go fuck yourself. How can you be so dismissive that you LAUGH, not just dismiss it, provide reasons, but fucking LAUGH. Yeah, it's that obvious. Confirmation bias in favour of Mr. Assad, bonapartist idiot.


Questioning authenticity is different than just dismissing something and laughing at it. There are thousands of reasons you can think of why something looks peculiar. But of course, it's all propaganda because the school looks a bit like a villa (many reasons why this may be), or a child's shoe being put that way (many reasons), or clothed people.

But no, these fucking assholes immediately assume innocence of the regime cuz, cuz, cuz they have a weak for Bonapartist scum. Using their reasons we may as well deny US use of napalm in Vietnam, because: HHAHAHAHAHHAHA SOOOO FAAAKE, THEY HAVE CLOTHES BUT THAT WOULD HAVE BE BURNT OFF, HAHAHHA.

Idiots.

Oh yea Im trying real hard to feel "cool and edgy" on an internet forum! Are you guys slow or what? The vid was obviously staged with some BAD acting! What more is there to say? Does that look like air dropped bomb damage and crater from a fighter jet to you? "Please think of the children" aint gonna make me deny my conviction that the video is full of bad actors. And when did I say I unconditionally support Assad, or any government for that matter? I just joined this site anyway.

[TheEmancipator]

yeah, i'm sure the kids are lying about their fucking burns.

Seriously, you people. It's like you can just pretend some kids are not human or real just to suit your ideological purposes.

Real 'left radicals' you guys are, properly caring about the welfare of those less fortunate than you - dismissing what seems like horrific, horrific injuries to defend some dictator who got his capitalist job through....nepotism. Fuck sake.

The people on here who have a hard on for Assad are also the people who are still mentally living in the Cold War, where the interests of the world wide proletariat were apparently resting on the shoulder of the USSR and its allies (such as ''Baathist'' Syria} as nation-states and their social imperialism instead of class consciousness...of the fact that all these brutal, tyrannical excuses for ''leaders'' are ultimately replacements for the old bourgeoisie.

[Dagoth Ur]

Assad and his family have led to a better lot for Syrians overall and they've remained free from liberalism/islamism. This is the real world and we have to play the cards we're dealt not dream about some ideal "what-if" cards.

And honestly if you don't see how much danger the twin-threat of liberal-islamism poses to workers all over the middle-east you're really blind to history. The most destructive and deadly ideology to ever exist has been liberalism. Nothing has changed in this modern age.

[Rafiq]

So, dagoth, what of pre liberal ideology? I oppose liberalism today. But insofar as solidified ideologies go (ones that have been incorporated in productive relations) it is the most progressive to ever exist. I consider Stalinism too to be a mutation of liberalism

[Delenda Carthago]

What did Obama said about the incident?Whatever he says, I support.

Well, its not that I support it actually, but I m not against it either.

[MarxSchmarx]

Oh my god you kids are fucking brain-dead.

Could you elaborate please? In the future, I suggest you take the arguments people make seriously and respond to it with critiques of their specific points. Anybody can say "you guys are fucking brain dead" but it will help your case if you illustrate how this is so. This is meant to be a discussion board. Thanks.

[Sasha]

Assad and his family have led to a better lot for Syrians overall and they've remained free from liberalism/islamism. This is the real world and we have to play the cards we're dealt not dream about some ideal "what-if" cards.

And honestly if you don't see how much danger the twin-threat of liberal-islamism poses to workers all over the middle-east you're really blind to history. The most destructive and deadly ideology to ever exist has been liberalism. Nothing has changed in this modern age.


wut? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama_massacre

[Dagoth Ur]

You can't get tears from me for a imperialist bought insurgency. The majority of Syrians supported Assad in Hama because the majority of Syrians benefit from Assad rule.

[Rss]

Ordinarily, it's dropped from a plane. But I was under the impression that most (all?) militaries had phased out napalm.

EDIT:
Wikipedia to the rescue, this thickened pyrophoric agent (TPA) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thickened_pyrophoric_agent) is used in Mark 77 bombs and likely other bombs. It's described as a napalm successor.

As far as I know, many armies have in paper phased out napalm because there are even fiercer incendiary agents out there. Better versions of napalm, thermobaric weapons, white phosphorus and thermite for example. Chinese, italian and brazilian bourgeoisie militaries even have traditional flamethrowers in their arsenal IIRC. Nasty stuff, but all lethal weapons are nasty.

[#FF0000]

The government isn't winning in the region this airstrike occurred. They lost a crucial supply route to the city of Aleppo a week ago.

Are you talking about this airstrike, or the most recent alleged chemical weapon attack? The latter occurred in Damascus, where government forces are beating back the rebels.


I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but do you have examples of rebels trying to stage government atrocities?

The last alleged chemical weapons attack was staged by rebels, for one.


Oh my god you kids are fucking brain-dead.

Get out.

[#FF0000]

The majority of Syrians supported Assad in Hama because the majority of Syrians benefit from Assad rule.

holy shit what a miserable thought.

but yeah Syria becoming a failed state (the only possible result of the rebels winning at this point lol) means pretty much death for a whole lotta Alawites and Kurds and Christians and Sunnis. Pretty much everyone, actually.

Just like in Libya.

[Sasha]

Lybia is a lot less densly populated though, if not for acces to the oil (infrastructure) a society divided along tribal/regional lines could be relatively stable there. Syria with its 22 milion on a place the size of Washington state not so much.

[Dagoth Ur]

So, dagoth, what of pre liberal ideology?
All pitifully weak compared to liberalism.


I oppose liberalism today. But insofar as solidified ideologies go (ones that have been incorporated in productive relations) it is the most progressive to ever exist.
Except that communism and the October Revolution happened. The Liberals have been arch-reactionaries for almost a century now. Monarchists are as goofy as primitivists.


I consider Stalinism too to be a mutation of liberalism
Haha okay. There are many things you can accuse Stalin of rightly, but I've never heard anyone call him a liberal before. This you must explain.


@#FF: The rebels in Hama wanted to end a Syrian society where ethnic groups are equal before the law. The MB has been an extreme Sunni supremacist organization since its inception. Stopping them helped all Syrians live in peace and prosperity.

[Rafiq]

The october revolution was Communist in nature, but the ideological mechanisms which supplemented according mode(s) of production in Communist states were radical-liberal in nature. Stalin's liberalism can be derived from his humanism, his talk of "the people" etc. You seem to be under the impression that liberals are incapable of ruthlessness.

[greenforest]

Are you talking about this airstrike, or the most recent alleged chemical weapon attack? The latter occurred in Damascus, where government forces are beating back the rebels.



The last alleged chemical weapons attack was staged by rebels, for one.



Get out.

I'm assuming you're referring to the attack that killed thirty government soldiers and militia. How would targeting the Syrian military make it look like the rebels staged an attack they could blame on the government?

And actually, while I was talking about the attack in this thread, the government haven't made gains in East Ghouta. The frontlines have remained the same for months.