future society questions (diet, drugs, etc)

[edwad]

do you think that a leftist society should promote a vegan/vegetarian diet? should people be allowed to use tobacco, alcohol, drugs, etc in an ideal utopia, and if capitalism is gone, will people even want to use these products to begin with?

im just curious to hear some opinions.

[G4b3n]

Any "socialist" society that restricts the liberty of working people is completely undesirable. It would make sense to promote a vegan life style but that does not mean enforce it.
If I am minding my own business and I want to indulge in marijuana, alcohol, tobacco or whatever, exactly who's business is that except my own?

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

As long as it does not impact the security of other people or economic efficiency unduly, it really isn't any business of society if people are doing cocaine off raw venison steaks or something.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Vegan lifestyle being enforced?

Over my dead body.

[Red_Banner]

These "vegetarians" however have no problem with animals killing and eating their prey.

Nor do they have a problem with themselves killing plant life.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

To the OP: when we think of a socialist society, we aren't really trying to construct 'utopia'. Far from it, we want to establish a realistic, workable system that, unlike capitalism, eliminates production for profit and replaces it with production for use, eliminates exploitation in all the forms we possibly can, and have a society where people can live a decent, dignified and fulfilling life.

With that in mind, it's quite difficult to answer questions like 'should Socialists promote veganism/vegetarianism?', or 'would drugs be legal in a socialist society?' because, to be honest, they aren't really questions that we can possibly concern ourselves with at the moment. It would be pointless too, since there is no blueprint established for how a socialist society would run - how could we? It would be impossible to devise some sort of static way that a society should run forever, long after we are all dead.

So, if you think that drugs should be legal, or you want to promote veganism/vegetarianism, or you want to change something, don't want for some promised socialist 'utopia'. Do it now. Agitate for it now. That's going to be the most effective way to agitate for social, economic and political change, rather than waiting around like religious folk for 'the revolution' to come around and for Marx himself to rise again.

[Art Vandelay]

Its no business of either mine or yours, what diets or drugs individual communities in any future socialist society decide to follow/ingest.

[Quail]

My view on "lifestyle" issues is that people should be free to do what they like, provided it doesn't encroach on the freedom of others. In the case of drugs, I suppose the healthcare system and friends, relatives, etc. would deal with people whose use was becoming a problem (although in better material conditions, problematic drug use would probably fall). In the case of animal products, perhaps some people would extend certain notions of "freedom" to other sentient life (such as say the freedom not to be made to suffer needlessly), in which case raising an animal to kill and eat would be unacceptable.

On the subject of animal liberation, I think it would only be possible in a communist society. In a capitalist society human beings are exploited in much the same way as farm animals, and the notion of animal liberation doesn't make sense to me within the framework of capitalism because humans are animals too.

[Ann Egg]

yeah. i'm a vegan. when the oppression of humans comes to an end, so will the oppression of animals.

[Consistent.Surprise]

It is no persons place to regulate another persons choices unless they encroach on the safety of another human being. Drug users who become violent, people who are promiscuous without using protection, etc.

As for diet, I love meatless dishes but there are people, like myself, who have to be on a very limited diet that involves meat, so enforcing a meatless or vegan diet is not healthy for everyone & must be considered.

[Mather]

do you think that a leftist society should promote a vegan/vegetarian diet?

No.

It is down to the individual in question to decide whether or not they go for a vegan/vegetarian diet. I would also like to add that not all socialists/communists/anarchists are into animal rights so there really is no communist or leftist position on whether you should eat meat or not.


should people be allowed to use tobacco, alcohol, drugs, etc in an ideal utopia,

If such consumption does not hurt or oppress others, then why not? Any society that would restrict the ability of people to enjoy themselves and have fun is no utopia. I also agree with The Boss in that we are not trying to create a utopia, but a society that is free of exploitation, class divisions and hierarchy.


and if capitalism is gone, will people even want to use these products to begin with?

I see no good reason why they would stop wanting these things with the abolition of capitalism. Some people may take drugs as a way of self-medicating away the effects of alienation but many other people (like myself) take them cos their fun and enjoyable.

[Fourth Internationalist]

These "vegetarians" however have no problem with animals killing and eating their prey.

Nor do they have a problem with themselves killing plant life.

Plants aren't sentient, and animals are. We can't do anything about nature. What do you want us to do, condemn tigers and bears? Put them in prison for being savage? Humans, however, are not savage animals and can make better choices.

[Fourth Internationalist]

In a future socialist society after everything is all settled down and people are happy, I hope synthetic meat (something people are working on right now actually) is one of the top priorities. Ergo, cruelty free omnivorous diets without forced veganism! In the mean time, if this technology is not available immediately in socialism, animals will be treated much better. Most cruelty on factory farms (which should be abolished immediately) is caused by the strain to spend less on the animals' welfare. Without capitalism there is no such motive, and animal welfare would be a top priority until synthetic meat is developed fully.

Socialism is a win-win situation for both meat-lovers and animal rights activists. :)

[Skyhilist]

Yeah, I'm vegananarchist myself, but forcing someone to be vegan isn't going to help anything. It's got to be a choice that people make on their own. It's trending that way though. Noam Chomsky certainly doesn't seem to think of it as far fetched. Veganism might well be a way that massive groups people choose to adopt in order to deal with issues like climate change and environmental degradation caused by animal product industries, as well as for a variety of other reasons. Making drugs illegal doesn't make any sense either to me. If they were ever illegal in a region, the decision to do so would have to be done by a vote (preferably consensus or modified consensus in my opinion), and violations would need to be treated as public health issues that required rehabilitation rather than prisons.

[Ritzy Cat]

These "vegetarians" however have no problem with animals killing and eating their prey.

Nor do they have a problem with themselves killing plant life.

Not every vegetarian are "animal huggers" that adopt such a lifestyle because they don't like seeing animals die. Some truly believe that it is a healthier diet.