World Revolution

[solo_ar]

the USA is only 5% of the worlds population. An organized third world upheaval could see the end of the American rule. I start school at university this fall for political science, which sends me to third world counties. Thats when i start planning the ultimate revolution. don't forget me. i will need all of you one day.

[SonofRage]

That is an incredibly simplistic "analysis" on your part. Modern military strength is not as dependent on population size as it was centuries ago. The US military is far more powerful than any other in the world.

[solo_ar]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 06:26 PM
That is an incredibly simplistic "analysis" on your part. Modern military strength is not as dependent on population size as it was centuries ago. The US military is far more powerful than any other in the world.
why must you assume i was speaking about militaristic action?

[SonofRage]

You say "the USA is only 5% of the worlds population. An organized third world upheaval could see the end of the American rule." The US would crush any upheaval from the third world regardless of the size of the population of the US.

[solo_ar]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 06:32 PM
You say "the USA is only 5% of the worlds population. An organized third world upheaval could see the end of the American rule." The US would crush any upheaval from the third world regardless of the size of the population of the US.
if the entire world revolted, through peaceful means, or violent, the USA would be helpless. The ever growing european union, as well as the asian-siberian connection, could easily prove to be more than the US could handle.

[SonofRage]

At best, that is pure fantasy, at worst, it is extreme idiocy. How do you propose the world is going to make the US "helpless"?

[FistFullOfSteel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 07:06 PM
At best, that is pure fantasy, at worst, it is extreme idiocy. How do you propose the world is going to make the US "helpless"?
The world can stop selling things to U.S.

[toastedmonkey]

A European super power is being built now, a bit of movement and the slave trades move away from america, africa and china etc, turn their backs on the oppresion they have suffered at the hands of america, and well america is screwed - who is going to do all that work now?

Simple is it not?

[Intifada]

our job right now is to show the world how america has raped mankind throughout it's bloody history. it doesnt matter by what means we do it, but we must reveal the truth about the u$a's plan to fuck us all.

[Fidelbrand]

Solo_ar,

Admire your passion but you 've adopted a rather simplistic view on the political and economic power of U.$~

Btw, what kind of revolt or revolution are you suggesting? in what form? in the name of what?

[solo_ar]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 07:42 PM
Solo_ar,

Admire your passion but you 've adopted a rather simplistic view on the political and economic power of U.$~

Btw, what kind of revolt or revolution are you suggesting? in what form? in the name of what?
in the name of freedom. I happen to live in a great country, Canada, but we to are slaves to americans. Especially with our trade. Something needs to be done. Canada alone cannot stand up to the american powers, but a united world can. I do not have simplisitic view, i made a simplistic post, because 1)i have no iterest in giving great lengthy explanations, 2) truthfully i do not have a clear plan yet. I am attending university to learn the economic structure of countries, especially developing countries. Over the next 4 years i will develop a plan. Myabe then you will remember this post.

[SonofRage]

I find this arrogant, "I am the vanguard of the workers" attitude on the part of solo_ar sickening.

[solo_ar]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 07:50 PM
I find this arrogant, "I am the vanguard of the workers" attitude on the part of solo_ar sickening.
interesting that you find my attitude sickening, yet seem to find solace in your 'i am full of ideology and belief, but yet i choose to do nothing but post on a message board' attitude. Why are you on a che board? do you believe in che's life and goals? then what the fuck do you do about it? you do nothing but post on a board and belittle someone else's attitude, and goal to make life better for those who are affected directly by american imperialism.

i guess you must hate Che Guevara and Fidel Castro for having the 'sickening attitude' to fight to overthrow the Batista regime.

I am not comparing myself to them, but i would rather have a sickening attitude than be you. Do me a favour Son of Rage.. stop posting in my thread until you show me the last time posting on a message board made a difference in the world. If you find it sickening that someone wants to lead a revolution, then you are on the wrong site.

[SonofRage]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 02:40 PM

interesting that you find my attitude sickening, yet seem to find solace in your 'i am full of ideology and belief, but yet i choose to do nothing but post on a message board' attitude.
I said nothing about "ideology and belief." As a matter of fact, I am quite active in various groups and I was out there in the streets protesting against the Iraq in February of last year.



Why are you on a che board?

Discussing and debating, and belittling people like you who say things like "don't forget me. i will need all of you one day" like you are going to be our great revolutionary savior.



do you believe in che's life and goals?

I share his goals, but not is ideology. I'm not one of these fanboys starting threads about "What did Che like to drink?" and other such nonsense.



then what the fuck do you do about it? you do nothing but post on a board and belittle someone else's attitude, and goal to make life better for those who are affected directly by american imperialism.

Like I said, I'm out there and active. I'm not going on message boards and telling people "don't forget me. i will need all of you one day.'




i guess you must hate Che Guevara and Fidel Castro for having the 'sickening attitude' to fight to overthrow the Batista regime.

You guess wrong, but I do despite these vanguardists who want to lead everyone to salvation. As Eugene Debs said:

"Too long have the workers of the world waited for some Moses to lead them out of bondage. He has not come; he never will come. I would not lead you out if I could; for if you could be led out, you could be led back again."



I am not comparing myself to them, but i would rather have a sickening attitude than be you.

ok


Do me a favour Son of Rage.. stop posting in my thread

No. :D



until you show me the last time posting on a message board made a difference in the world.

You should take your own advice.



If you find it sickening that someone wants to lead a revolution, then you are on the wrong site.

I think the workers will emancipate themselves and certainly do not need leadership from someone who comes on a message board posting nonsense and saying "don't forget me. i will need all of you one day" Secondly, I have been here a long time, I think I'm a better judge on whether or not I am "on the wrong site."

[solo_ar]

Originally posted by SonofRage+Jan 13 2004, 09:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SonofRage @ Jan 13 2004, 09:15 PM)
[email protected] 13 2004, 02:40 PM

interesting that you find my attitude sickening, yet seem to find solace in your &#39;i am full of ideology and belief, but yet i choose to do nothing but post on a message board&#39; attitude.
I said nothing about "ideology and belief." As a matter of fact, I am quite active in various groups and I was out there in the streets protesting against the Iraq in February of last year.



Why are you on a che board?

Discussing and debating, and belittling people like you who say things like "don&#39;t forget me. i will need all of you one day" like you are going to be our great revolutionary savior.



do you believe in che&#39;s life and goals?

I share his goals, but not is ideology. I&#39;m not one of these fanboys starting threads about "What did Che like to drink?" and other such nonsense.



then what the fuck do you do about it? you do nothing but post on a board and belittle someone else&#39;s attitude, and goal to make life better for those who are affected directly by american imperialism.

Like I said, I&#39;m out there and active. I&#39;m not going on message boards and telling people "don&#39;t forget me. i will need all of you one day.&#39;




i guess you must hate Che Guevara and Fidel Castro for having the &#39;sickening attitude&#39; to fight to overthrow the Batista regime.

You guess wrong, but I do despite these vanguardists who want to lead everyone to salvation. As Eugene Debs said:

"Too long have the workers of the world waited for some Moses to lead them out of bondage. He has not come; he never will come. I would not lead you out if I could; for if you could be led out, you could be led back again."



I am not comparing myself to them, but i would rather have a sickening attitude than be you.

ok


Do me a favour Son of Rage.. stop posting in my thread

No. :D



until you show me the last time posting on a message board made a difference in the world.

You should take your own advice.



If you find it sickening that someone wants to lead a revolution, then you are on the wrong site.

I think the workers will emancipate themselves and certainly do not need leadership from someone who comes on a message board posting nonsense and saying "don&#39;t forget me. i will need all of you one day" Secondly, I have been here a long time, I think I&#39;m a better judge on whether or not I am "on the wrong site." [/b]
well.. you protested in february???? well&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; hey everyone look at him, he protested. and.... what happened to iraq?
i am not saying protesting is always useles.. but open your eyes... you protested.. so what? are you proud?

&#39; I am quite active in various groups and I was out there in the streets protesting against the Iraq in February of last year. &#39; what difference did you make? what difference do you make? i&#39;m willing to bet nothing. don&#39;t get me wrong, i have accomplished nothing of significance, yet... which is why i have the &#39;arrogant attitude&#39; that i am going to. funny how quickly you dismiss me sarcastically as &#39;your revolutionary&#39; yet AT THE EXACT SAME TIME your on a revolutionairy&#39;s site. whats the difference between him and me? or him and you? nothing. i see you beleive in marxism.. you must think marx was an arrogant fuck for having the audacity to write a whole theory to benefit the working class. imagine how many people wrote him off as some &#39;vanguard&#39;. i am sure you would have, but, its cool to like people that are history, but for someone to do it now, its arrogant. but hey, who am i to talk to you, i mean shit, you protested.

&#39;I think the workers will emancipate themselves and certainly do not need leadership from someone&#39;

thats also interesting, and tell me, when do you think they will do that? any projected year or even decade? the bolshevik revolution was a long time ago my friend, and even then, they needed a leader. did cuba liberate themselves? or did castro lead a rebel force that liberated them? i am still waiting for the workers to emancipate themsevles... we can talk long and loud about how people cannot be freed, but can only fre themselves, which is true, but not once has it been done without a leader.

[SonofRage]

The people have never been emancipated by a vanguard. These vanguards in the end only installed themselves as a new ruling class.

You criticize me, someone who is actually active. Tell me, what have you done beside making grandious claims and telling everyone to be ready to line up behind your leadership? :D

[solo_ar]

enough arguing... quite frankly its useless. i am active as well, and have done a lot of things at college such as organized a complete student boycott of the schools apparell because it was being produced in sweatshops, and the school cancelled the contracts with Russell Athletic. but enough of this, because who cares. am i arrogant in this sense? perhaps, but maybe its the prerequisite of a leader? was winston churchill arrogant? does anybody care?

[Weidt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 01:18 PM
the USA is only 5% of the worlds population. An organized third world upheaval could see the end of the American rule. I start school at university this fall for political science, which sends me to third world counties. Thats when i start planning the ultimate revolution. don&#39;t forget me. i will need all of you one day.
Well, the US population consumes the largest quantity of the world&#39;s resources, has a military budget the size of the rest of the world&#39;s combined, and the strongest economy on the planet. Even if the Third World rebelled, the US would not be the only nation to crush it. The European Union, Russia, Japan, Australia and even China and some other more developed countries would join in opposition to any upheaval as they would drastically effect their economies similarly.

It would be arrogant to think only the US has imperialist intentions, or that they are the sole embodiment of "evil." Global capitalism is, well, global, and therefore extends beyond artificial boundaries on a map.

In fact, a historical look at the Third World will show that there were dictatorships before, during and after rebellions. Where there were successes, such as Vietnam, North Korea and Cuba, there has been the rise of nationalist one-party states that are far from the idea of socialism, and are not socialist in the final analysis. Quite possibly the best gains the rebellions brought about was the emergence of bourgeois democracy and social reforms, but neo-colonialism and a vampire-like global capitalism remain stronger than ever.

Even if what you suggest were possible, the US would not collapse. Capitalism has been and is very effective at adapting to changes in the world and I am sure the US would simply use its reserve army of labor to fill in its economic needs while re-enforcing its domination over the Third World.

[solo_ar]

Originally posted by Weidt+Jan 14 2004, 02:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Weidt @ Jan 14 2004, 02:58 AM)
[email protected] 13 2004, 01:18 PM
the USA is only 5% of the worlds population. An organized third world upheaval could see the end of the American rule. I start school at university this fall for political science, which sends me to third world counties. Thats when i start planning the ultimate revolution. don&#39;t forget me. i will need all of you one day.
Well, the US population consumes the largest quantity of the world&#39;s resources, has a military budget the size of the rest of the world&#39;s combined, and the strongest economy on the planet. Even if the Third World rebelled, the US would not be the only nation to crush it. The European Union, Russia, Japan, Australia and even China and some other more developed countries would join in opposition to any upheaval as they would drastically effect their economies similarly.

It would be arrogant to think only the US has imperialist intentions, or that they are the sole embodiment of "evil." Global capitalism is, well, global, and therefore extends beyond artificial boundaries on a map.

In fact, a historical look at the Third World will show that there were dictatorships before, during and after rebellions. Where there were successes, such as Vietnam, North Korea and Cuba, there has been the rise of nationalist one-party states that are far from the idea of socialism, and are not socialist in the final analysis. Quite possibly the best gains the rebellions brought about was the emergence of bourgeois democracy and social reforms, but neo-colonialism and a vampire-like global capitalism remain stronger than ever.

Even if what you suggest were possible, the US would not collapse. Capitalism has been and is very effective at adapting to changes in the world and I am sure the US would simply use its reserve army of labor to fill in its economic needs while re-enforcing its domination over the Third World. [/b]
what you said was great, except for the natural resources part. The USA is not even close to the being the largest country for natural resources. Canada is by a long shot. problem is, we export it all at an unreplaceable pace. and siberia has the most untapped resources right now, which is why the americas are so against the asian countries from establishing ownership of it.

[Weidt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 10:06 PM
what you said was great, except for the natural resources part. The USA is not even close to the being the largest country for natural resources. Canada is by a long shot. problem is, we export it all at an unreplaceable pace. and siberia has the most untapped resources right now, which is why the americas are so against the asian countries from establishing ownership of it.
Actually, you misread me. I said the US consumes the largest quanity of resources, not that it has them, or even owns them. The US simply uses the most.

[solo_ar]

Originally posted by Weidt+Jan 14 2004, 03:21 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Weidt @ Jan 14 2004, 03:21 AM)
[email protected] 13 2004, 10:06 PM
what you said was great, except for the natural resources part. The USA is not even close to the being the largest country for natural resources. Canada is by a long shot. problem is, we export it all at an unreplaceable pace. and siberia has the most untapped resources right now, which is why the americas are so against the asian countries from establishing ownership of it.
Actually, you misread me. I said the US consumes the largest quanity of resources, not that it has them, or even owns them. The US simply uses the most. [/b]
oh shoot. sorry my fault.

[revolutionindia]

Whenever there is decay in human values and the people are
exploited and made to suffer then
there will be a revolutoin again and again

Whatever you do as long as it will benefit the illiterate masses
in my country count me in
If you ever come to india contact me

Hasta la victoria le seimpera&#33;&#33;

[solo_ar]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 04:36 AM
Whenever there is decay in human values and the people are
exploited and made to suffer then
there will be a revolutoin again and again

Whatever you do as long as it will benefit the illiterate masses
in my country count me in
If you ever come to india contact me

Hasta la victoria le seimpera&#33;&#33;
see this si what i was looking for . people who realize change can be made for the less fortunate. i live in canada, i am one lucky bastard. sure i am &#036;10,000 in debt, and have no money, but it could be a lot worse. i could be born in chechnya, or ethiopia. the fact that paris hilton has &#036;500 million, but there are 500 million people starving, maes me think about causing change. I will.

[BOZG]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 08:04 PM
The ever growing european union,
Sorry to be so blunt but that&#39;s a fucking stupid comment. So what if the USA could actually be challenged by the EU or Asian group? Instead of the USA being the imperialist superpower, the EU would be? We must not challenge the might of the USA alone but imperialism and the entire capitalist structure worldwide.

[solo_ar]

Originally posted by BornOfZapatasGuns+Jan 14 2004, 07:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BornOfZapatasGuns @ Jan 14 2004, 07:22 PM)
[email protected] 13 2004, 08:04 PM
The ever growing european union,
Sorry to be so blunt but that&#39;s a fucking stupid comment. So what if the USA could actually be challenged by the EU or Asian group? Instead of the USA being the imperialist superpower, the EU would be? We must not challenge the might of the USA alone but imperialism and the entire capitalist structure worldwide. [/b]
first of all easy on the comments like "that&#39;s a fucking stupid comment" it just makes the conversation hostile for no reason. Just calm down and engage in a coversation.

You make a solid point, however i was not referring to the EU as something to over run the USA and become the next superpower. I just wanted it (and believe me, France and Germany want to) to stand up to the american government and prevent a new world order.

[Ernestocheguevara]

The EU&#33;&#33; That is laughable&#33; The last thing we need is another superpower&#33; Any how there are far too many people up the U&#036;&#39;s ASS to make them go against them Tony Blair for one&#33;
The way wee can overthrow capitalism is to build a workers party, run for the workers by the workers&#33; Solidarity&#33; Not squabbling&#33;
Too many exclamation marks maybe :blink:

[yes i am arab]

i think that a world revolution neds to take place. especially in countries like the united states and most european countries, because of what they are doing to their workers and externalities, that is to say what they are doing to economies and workers in other contries. im not sure if any of you are familiar with the "race to the bottom effect" but it is degrading the quality of life in a lot of countries and "first world" countries are perpetuating the problem. the effect is this: poor third world countries are poor....obviously so they want the "first world" investment... investment in this case is to say that they want big companies to put their big manufacturing plants in their countries, but since practically all "first world" countries are capitalist they stick to their capitalist interest make it for cheap, turn around and charge the consumers out the ass for it. and so the "third world" countries want the investment but the capitalists dont wanna worry about a minimum wage or environmental restrictions so the basically pressure the "third world" countries into removing or lowering the restrictions, as to gaurentee a "first world" invetment.

this obviously has to stop and so, i believe in order for it to stop the exploited working class must rise up and take action, if not through those means, then unionize and deny service to anyone until the laws of this country are reformed.

[Rasta Sapian]

solo, good idea bro, start to educate and inspire those third world nationlist workers to stand up against hipocracy and coruption in the governments around the world. Revolution takes hard work, and grass roots iniciatives, good luck with your efforts&#33;


peace yall

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

saying &#39;third world&#39; is just an example of the capitalist rule over your own vocabulary....they&#39;re &#39;underprivileged&#39;, not justified by class...

Anyway, one needs to concentrate on MNCs (now called Transnational Corporations) because its those right-wing CEOs that make the &#39;third world&#39; as you say, so poor. These MNCs have the money to make these countries better, but they dont. They choose not to as its a larger profit for themselves. Billions are put on their paycheques as the REAL workers of their company are suffering....

America has done its evil, indeed. I&#39;m not sure why you&#39;d go after a whole nation, when the problem resides in right-wing CEOs and MNCs that allow this injustice to go on. I think that&#39;s the bigger threat, there are democrats in America as well, there are major leftists in America. Going after a nation is somewhat nonsensical, and not very thought-out.

Like i said, America&#39; s done its evil, and is still doing its evil. Do you attack the country as a whole with some &#39;third world&#39; revolt? If you&#39;re basing it on population, you&#39;ll be sadly mistaken. The British dominated many places in the world where they were outnumbered. Even slavery in North America occured with very few slave-drivers compared to the amount of slaves.

[Osman Ghazi]

If youve ever looked at history, you can see that the only way to make a difference in this world is with blood and steel. The only way to destroy global capitalism is to destroy the global economy. To do that i would suggest maybe a simultaneous bombing of the major trade centers (TSX, NYSE, HKSE, Nikkei, London)
The problem lies in the fact that as long as people have sufficient &#036;&#036;, they wont give a about whats going on around them. Therefore, take away their money and youve got your revolution.

[BOZG]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 09:31 PM
first of all easy on the comments like "that&#39;s a fucking stupid comment" it just makes the conversation hostile for no reason. Just calm down and engage in a coversation.

You make a solid point, however i was not referring to the EU as something to over run the USA and become the next superpower. I just wanted it (and believe me, France and Germany want to) to stand up to the american government and prevent a new world order.
Yeah sorry comrade, I&#39;m very quick to anger. Point taken.

Yes I agree that France and Germany do want to stand up to the US but in their own interests. They&#39;d like nothing more than to see themselves as the new US.

[Rasta Sapian]

I think the US should look up at the statue of liberty, and remember where it came from&#33;

And maybe rethink the meaning of liberty&#33; :blink:

As far as those 3rd world workers go....... those freaking people, kids etc. are being exploited to the max... earning wages way below fair trade, global economic prices&#33;

I think that solo has a good idea, by uniting the workers for a revolution, which would spread the wealth back to the workers instead of in the hands of beauocrats, and impirialist pigs&#33;