Why didn't the Soviets help the Warsaw Uprising?

[Nakidana]

So I watched The Pianist the other day (which is a really good movie btw) and subsequently got to reading about the Warsaw Uprising (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising#Lack_of_outside_support) on Wikipedia. Apparently there's a huge discussion among historians on why the Soviets didn't initially support the uprising. Now I say initially because according to Wiki, at the beginning Stalin called the insurgents a "handful of criminals" and didn't cooperate with Western Allied assistance to the uprising. But later, between 13-30 of September, Soviet aircraft actually did start supplying them.

Now some say that Stalin did it deliberately in order to weaken Polish resistance to a Soviet occupation. But then why the hell would they start supplying them later on? :confused:

Others say that it was a strategic decision, the Red Army simply wasn't able to effectively supply the uprising and the Soviet High Command had been misinformed as to the nature of the uprising. Also most of the air drops were not reaching the uprising, landing instead in Nazi controlled territory. Stalin himself told Churchill it was due to setbacks in the Vistula sector in August.

So yeah, what do you guys think is the truth?

[tuwix]

He hasn't help because after war it would be much more difficult to establish his authorities in Warsaw as capital of Polish state, if the main organization of Warsaw Urising (AK) hasn't been virtuall destroyed as it happened during the uprising.

[Zostrianos]

From Bloodlands, chapter 9:
It made perfect Stalinist sense to encourage an uprising, and then not to assist one. Right to the last moment, Soviet propaganda had called for an uprising in Warsaw, promising Soviet assistance. The uprising came, but the help did not. Though there is no reason to believe that Stalin deliberately halted military operations at Warsaw, the delay at the Vistula suited Stalin’s political purposes. From the Soviet perspective, an uprising in Warsaw was desirable because it would kill Germans—and Poles who were willing to risk their lives for independence. The Germans would do the necessary work of destroying the remnants of the Polish intelligentsia and the soldiers of the Home Army, groups that overlapped. As soon as the Home Army soldiers took up arms, Stalin called them adventurers and criminals. Later on, when the Soviet Union gained control of Poland, resistance to Hitler would be prosecuted as a crime, on the logic that armed action not controlled by the communists undermined the communists, and that communism was the only legitimate regime for Poland.

[kashkin]

In terms of ground forces, there was no way the Red Army could have supported the uprising, they had finished Operation Bagration, which had carried them across Belorussia and eastern Poland in a month, and the lead units had just beaten off a strong German counterattack.

However, the VVS was in a position to help the Uprising, in dropping supplies and attacking German units, but did not do so. The Soviets also forbid American and British planes from landing in Soviet territory, as those planes did not have the capacity to make a round trip to Warsaw and back to France/England. Limited supply drops were made in late September, and American planes were later allowed to refuel in Soviet territory, but by then it was too late. Most drops in any case fell into German hands.

The Bloodlands quote explains it well, the Uprising and the Home Army were aligned to the 'London' Poles, .i.e the government in exile in London, letting them die would clear the path for the 'Lublin' Poles, those aligned with the Soviet Union.

[Popular Front of Judea]

Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin by Timothy Snyder – review | Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/oct/09/bloodlands-stalin-timothy-snyder-review/print)


From Bloodlands, chapter 9:
It made perfect Stalinist sense to encourage an uprising, and then not to assist one. Right to the last moment, Soviet propaganda had called for an uprising in Warsaw, promising Soviet assistance. The uprising came, but the help did not. Though there is no reason to believe that Stalin deliberately halted military operations at Warsaw, the delay at the Vistula suited Stalin’s political purposes. From the Soviet perspective, an uprising in Warsaw was desirable because it would kill Germans—and Poles who were willing to risk their lives for independence. The Germans would do the necessary work of destroying the remnants of the Polish intelligentsia and the soldiers of the Home Army, groups that overlapped. As soon as the Home Army soldiers took up arms, Stalin called them adventurers and criminals. Later on, when the Soviet Union gained control of Poland, resistance to Hitler would be prosecuted as a crime, on the logic that armed action not controlled by the communists undermined the communists, and that communism was the only legitimate regime for Poland.

[Nakidana]

Okay, so the uprising was basically a bunch of Social Democrats and liberals? I guess the Western Allies supporting the uprising wasn't a moral decision, but simply a way to counteract Soviet influence in the region.

Reading wiki it seems the Home Army wouldn't allow the far left to join them because they were seen as Soviet spies. So Stalin's mischievousness put aside, I could see why you as a communist wouldn't support it.

Does anyone know why the Soviets started supplying the uprising near the end? I imagine they knew the uprising had failed and simply wanted to extend the killing on both sides.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

[QUOTE=Nakidana;2655359]Okay, so the uprising was basically a bunch of Social Democrats and liberals?

Was it fuck? It was Poles, and Polish Jews, risking their lives to attempt a resistance movement against the Nazis who had put them in ghettos and were going to cart them off to be gassed to death. Don't be so fucking disrespectful.


Reading wiki it seems the Home Army wouldn't allow the far left to join them because they were seen as Soviet spies. So Stalin's mischievousness put aside, I could see why you as a communist wouldn't support it.

Maybe the Home Army had a point, given the Soviets' abandonment of them. I, personally, as a communist, cannot think of a single reason not to support an uprising of the poor and oppressed against fascist scum. Oh, maybe politics? Yeah, that's right.

[Fred]

Of course the lack of Soviet support was despicable. I recall reading that there were a lot of communists involved in this uprising -- I will try to research this if I have the time (not likely). I think it was mainly a political decision. I don't think Stalin would have had a big problem with supplying non-communist forces in the Ghetto. However, any real left forces would be looked at as highly threatening -- unless they were under direct control of Stalinists. The forces in the uprising were probably heterogeneous. But you really have to have your head pretty far up your ass to not support the heroic fighters.

[Nakidana]

Well the leadership was social democratic and liberal, maybe on the ground it was different and you as a leftist could join.

Just making the point that the reason the western allies supported it was probably also political, not because they cared about the Poles. If communist had been leading it chances are they wouldn't have done the air drops.

I'm not against national liberation struggles btw

[tuwix]

Of course the lack of Soviet support was despicable. I recall reading that there were a lot of communists involved in this uprising -- I will try to research this if I have the time (not likely). I think it was mainly a political decision. I don't think Stalin would have had a big problem with supplying non-communist forces in the Ghetto. However, any real left forces would be looked at as highly threatening -- unless they were under direct control of Stalinists. The forces in the uprising were probably heterogeneous. But you really have to have your head pretty far up your ass to not support the heroic fighters.

You confuse two different uprisings. During the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising) Stalin's troops were nowhere near to Warsaw. But during the Warsaw Uprsing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising), there were only Ghetto's ruins left.

[Nakidana]

Also during the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising the GL operated, but there were no leftist organisations in the Warsaw Uprising.

[tuwix]

There were. Many PPS (Polish Socialist party) members fought in the AK side.

[Nakidana]

K, I thought they were social democratic

[tuwix]

Well, not exactly. Part of PPS was base of the KPP (Polish Communist Party). After the II WW, PPS was for the changes which supposed to be socialist and PPS was included to the Polish ruling party that was completely dependent on Stalin.

The main difference btween KPP and PPS was attitude to Poland's indepndence. For KPP Poland's indepedence didn't have any relevance. They wanted to be part od the Soviet Union. For the PPS Soviet Union was just another incarnation of Russina Empire. And actually they were right. But many PPS members were dying in anti-capitalist protests and strikes in 1920's and 1930's.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I think the whole point of the uprising is that, whilst it was obviously political, it wasn't really a pathetic left v right or right v left battle of 'petty politics'. It was people fighting to save themselves from extinction at the hands of the Nazis. Any communist should support that, whether the uprising was at the hands of Leninists, liberals or other.

[Nakidana]

Sure, but it's as if you think it's a given that any communist would support it, when obviously there are communists who refuse to support uprisings led by reactionaries.

E.g. if we extend your argument communists should also support the resistance of insurgents in the Battle of Fallujah.

Regarding the point of the uprising, I'm not entirely sure it was all about saving themselves from extinction (in contrast to the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising). To copy from wiki:


The uprising began on 1 August 1944, as part of a nationwide plan, Operation Tempest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tempest), when the Soviet Army approached Warsaw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lublin%E2%80%93Brest_Offensive). The main Polish objectives were to drive the German occupiers from the city and help with the larger fight against Germany and the Axis powers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_powers). Secondary political objectives were to liberate Warsaw before the Soviets, to underscore Polish sovereignty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty) by empowering the Polish Underground State (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Underground_State) before the Soviet-backed Polish Committee of National Liberation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Committee_of_National_Liberation) could assume control. Also, short-term causes included the threat of a German round-up of able-bodied Poles, and Moscow radio calling for the Uprising to begin.

[tuwix]

It was people fighting to save themselves from extinction at the hands of the Nazis.

I'm affraid it wasn't. In Warsaw Ghetto Uprising it was the case unless it was futile effort. But before the Warsaw Uprising to the people of Warsaw an extinction didn't threaten. Nazi Germany were brutally persecuting the independence activists only and certainly Jews. But average Polish citizen wasn't an objective of extinction for Nazis. If one declared herself or himself a German ("Volksdeutsche") regardless was he or she or wasn't, she or he could have some privilleges. But it was seen as betrayal for Polish Underground State. And they were executing their sentences frequently.

But the Warsaw Uprising was motivated mainly by independence reasons unless it was beginned and continued against orders from command of the Polish Government-in-exile. And before the Uprising, its organizers were recognizing their orders. The Polish Government-in-exile knew exactly that Uprising don't have any chance to be succesful and despite of verbal encouragement by radio from Soviets, they won't help it. And even some right-wing historians in Poland says that the Uprising was a tragic error, although its widely adored in Poland.