Revleft After The Acute Phase Of The Crisis

[Popular Front of Judea]

I notice that the all time high of posters on Revleft was back in May of 2009, just over a year after the collapse of Bear Stearns. This collapse is as good as any marker of when the acute phase of the current economic crisis started. Fast forward to the present. Wall Street has recovered, the wealthy are doing quite well thank you. The rest of us, not so much. But that period when we were watching the news with morbid fascination is long over. Meanwhile here on Revleft the number of users online has declined and from what I can see the quality of posts have declined. I notice now -- with annoyance -- the threads asking why we proles didn't step up to our historic mission yet again. I assume that what I see now is the baseline Revleft experience complete with never ending threads about Kronstadt and STALIN! occupying peoples attention.

Do you agree with my analysis -- or not?

[Sasha]

The fact that i see this thread at least once a month says not, seriously, this posted more often than stuff about kronstad and Stalin put together, its nothing more than "when this forum was new and exciting to me was when this forum was good and since then its gone to hell because my personal experience is how everyone must feel"...
No wonder that no one here likes critical theory as a Marxist contribution... ;)

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

me and mariel used to run this town. Now we've stepped down, them Stalin-loving, Krondstadt-hating baseline thread-lovers have been stepping.

True story.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

this also feels more of a chit-chat than non-polticial thread, does anyone else agree? :)

[Popular Front of Judea]

I base my question on the threads that have came up on searches I have done. The earlier threads I see are much more focused on contemporary issues than the usual leftist navel gazing that you will find here now.

I joined at the beginning of this year. So if there is a golden age of Revleft for me sadly it is now.




The fact that i see this thread at least once a month says not, seriously, this posted more often than stuff about kronstad and Stalin put together, its nothing more than "when this forum was new and exciting to me was when this forum was good and since then its gone to hell because my personal experience is how everyone must feel"...
No wonder that no one here likes critical theory as a Marxist contribution... ;)

[Decolonize The Left]

Speaking as someone who has seen this forum through quite a few changes, I am not concerned. I notice that you have been here since the beginning of the year (I also read that you searched beyond that). I think that as you hang around longer you will begin to understand the flow of the forum: there are busy times, slow times, drama times, calm times. At the moment I consider the forum to be fairly calm but still interesting.

All in all, I don't think it's much to worry about.

[Sasha]

Also, searches tend to show up the best, most intresting threads, it how both your brain and a search engine work, its it job to sort the diamonds of the shit for you...

[Fred]

I would note that some excellent posters have been ex-communicated, that might have contributed to the decline. Of course some ridiculous posters have also gotten the boot, perhaps improving the quality. It makes sense that there would be an ebb and flow that reflects aspects of current political reality.

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

I only turned up in the last few months so I'm afraid I can't comment on RevLeft c.2009 BUT stalin threads or no stalin threads this is the best arena for far left debate I've yet come across on the internet

[Jimmie Higgins]

I joined at the beginning of this year. So if there is a golden age of Revleft for me sadly it is now.

YOLO!






Edit: sorry, wrong thread.

Anyway, seriously, there are ups and downs and people frequently think RevLeft is in terminal decline... but I think it really is just ups and downs.

What I do agree with though is that what's going on in the real world impacts the mood here and I don't remember the start of the crisis being a particularly "good" time for discussions even if there were more regular members at that point... pretty quickly all the threads became about Glenn Beck and then the Tea Party... are they fascist, are we dooooomed! I think some of the better times for discussion were during the Occupy movement because rather than some set historical analysis vs. another set historical analysis a lot of the debates were unsettled and I feel I learned a lot both from the movement and from hearing the perspectives of others.

[The Douche]

This is a relatively good time on revleft right now. There is no drama going on and the staff is making a concentrated effort to change the atmosphere of the learning forum for the better.

If you stick around for another 9 months or so I'm sure you'll get to see it get worse, and then slowly start to get better again.

As for the content of the threads, the membership here is dominated by people who're new to these ideas, and many of whom are isolated from other people with these ideas, so the discussions can often be pedantic, historical, and sectarian. During times of higher struggle the dynamic changes because people who were previously isolated manage to get active, and people who are more active come back around here to discuss experiences/observations from their participation, which also normally generates discussion.

I posted here during the anti-war movement and while Bush was still president, and I definitely think it was that having something going on in real life, that made the board seem better.

[Conscript]

How the rules are enforced no doubt has much to do with it. It could use some reform and additions, such as a refugee camp for banned members to appeal in or something like the basement on pofo. Its too autocratic and detached otherwise, needs more formalities.

[BIXX]

How the rules are enforced no doubt has much to do with it. It could use some reform and additions, such as a refugee camp for banned members to appeal in or something like the basement on pofo. Its too autocratic and detached otherwise, needs more formalities.

No reform, only revolution! :laugh:

In all seriousness though, I think the forum is OK. I mean, there are times where it's GREAT and every thread I'm spurting out opinions and it's really fun. Other times, every damn thread feels like school- boring and I'm learning nothing.

Right now we are kinda in between for me.

But for some people this is awesome, others this is shit. It's all a matter of perspective.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I think the best era of this forum was back in early 2011, because that was when some of the more interesting world events were just starting to take place.

[Zealot]

The left has split up into sects and is for the most part completely irrelevant. In 2008 the bourgeoisie destroyed jobs, savings, houses, and families; Detroit has gone bankrupt; imperialist wars are blatantly waged with little to no resistance; America's Fourth Reich has been openly exposed for what it is (PRISM, Manning, etc.). And where has the left been in all of this? Well, mostly bickering about shit that happened decades ago and joining hands with liberals at Occupy Bullshit rather than each other.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

America's Fourth Reich has been openly exposed for what it is (PRISM, Manning, etc.).

PLEASE stop with this. It's incorrect, childish and dis-respectful to attempt to group together shit you don't like as 'fascist'.

America isn't fascist. Fascism is a political ideology, often the last resort of a desperate bourgeoisie, a la Germany in the late 1920s/early 1930s. The bourgoeisie right now is hardly suffering, and hardly desperate, therefore there has been no move towards 'extreme' political ideologies such as fascism.

So please, stop disrespecting the memories of everyone who died at the hands of the assorted fascist fucks of the 20th century by labelling an entire country the fourth reich. It's not.

[Zealot]

PLEASE stop with this. It's incorrect, childish and dis-respectful to attempt to group together shit you don't like as 'fascist'.

America isn't fascist. Fascism is a political ideology, often the last resort of a desperate bourgeoisie, a la Germany in the late 1920s/early 1930s. The bourgoeisie right now is hardly suffering, and hardly desperate, therefore there has been no move towards 'extreme' political ideologies such as fascism.

So please, stop disrespecting the memories of everyone who died at the hands of the assorted fascist fucks of the 20th century by labelling an entire country the fourth reich. It's not.

Italian fascism evolved into Nazism and its latest expression has been authoritarian neoliberalism which is indeed the sign of a desperate bourgeoisie attempting to stem the falling rate of profit and worldwide anger with US imperialism. The massive extent of the NSA's gestapo tactics (such as spying on the UN and, well, basically everyone that's heard of the internet) has been the final indication that America's global domination project heralds the age of the Fourth Reich. American nationalists might not be too pleased with such a characterisation though.

And so long as it's not a bannable offense, I will not stop calling America the Fourth Reich.

[Red Commissar]

All forum communities go through periods of ups and downs. This isn't particularly anything new, this generally happens when we have a turn over of more active members and waiting for the interim as another group gets established. Kind of like sport teams in this sense when you have a performing roster that gelled together eventually matriculate out.

There was plenty of activity here at the beginning of the economic crisis as you said- I think however the length of time it has gone on and the inability of left groups to provide a solution has caused a lack of interest among the youth. I think there can also be a case to be made that some potential recruits among well-intentioned progressives have focused more on kowtowing the current president, where as under a Republican president they were more willing to indulge in exploring our thought and in some cases, end up one of us.

When I first joined it was in the aftermath of the CC mess and a lot of users did leave the site or got banned as far as I can tell, with those left over claiming that the forum would die off within the year. But we're still here three years later, and some of those who ragequit to go join the plethora of other more "democratic" sites seem to be drawn back to this forum. When I come across old threads, especially those where the formatting is botched from the old forum migration, there are users likewise worried that the peak point of the forum is behind them and it'll die off.

Some things have gotten worse as I was here- some users who I respected are no longer here and that has affected my own activity as well. On the other hand though, I think we've moved beyond some of the particularly crazy e-drama that hit the forums several times- the end of CC, the banning of certain "popular" users, the forum game debacles, and so on which even culminated in these forums being briefly unavailable towards the end of 2011 after some user bans.

We'll always have activity in some form, with ups and downs. Forum communities in general have been struggling with changes to the way people communicate on the internet, with people prefering other means besides forums (say social media sites). I think revleft though by virtue of its purpose is in a better shape than say a forum community focused on a specific video game, and will continue to draw people, even with the state of the left as it is.

We could always improve though. It's pointless to complain about the quality and quantity of the posts because in the end that's up to us to resolve, not a particular user or group of users. The key to any forum's future is how we deal with new users- and it is to this end I hope more users are mindful that the newcomers who come here may often times come with no real knowledge of left-wing politics beyond a scatterbrained conception of it, and that we should be patient and let them figure it out. Not everyone's going to come here as informed as we may perceive ourselves to be. I came to these forums under similar circumstances and I've learned a lot, and that was thanks to the patient users who were interested in learning rather than simply launching polemics.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Italian fascism evolved into Nazism

No it didn't, but that's besides the point. Italian Fascism and Nazism as espoused by Mussolini and Hitler were both forms of Fascism...


and its latest expression has been authoritarian neoliberalism

...whilst neo-liberalism is not a form of Fascism, but an ideology of capitalism.


which is indeed the sign of a desperate bourgeoisie attempting to stem the falling rate of profit and worldwide anger with US imperialism.

Sorry, but what anger? I know self-professed leftists love to proclaim the end is near, and the people are going to rise up tomorrow and make total destroy, but please, go outside. Do you see THAT much anger? Of course, during an economic crisis and throughout the bust phase, there will be expressions of anger - like the occupy movement and its partner movements in Spain, Portugal et al.

But there just isn't anywhere near the critical mass of popular opposition to capitalism to worry the bourgeoisie at this time. That's just a fact.


The massive extent of the NSA's gestapo tactics (such as spying on the UN and, well, basically everyone that's heard of the internet) has been the final indication that America's global domination project heralds the age of the Fourth Reich.

Okay, a few things:

The NSAs 'gestapo tactics' (again, pretty fucking disrespectful to those who died or were tortured at the hands of the Nazis, since last time I checked, I don't think Assange, Snowden, Manning or anyone else has been subjected to gassing, un-anaesthetised castration or a lifetime in a labour camp) have been going on for long before the current economic crisis, though, so this doesn't really make sense.

Also, why are you talking about a 'reich'? Reich is a German word, used specifically in context when talking about German empires, so your usage of it is wildly inaccurate. If we used Reich to talk about every empire that ever existed, we'd be on far more than the fourth empire - think the Ottoman and British empires for starters, as well as the USSR.



American nationalists might not be too pleased with such a characterisation though.

Probably because America isn't a fascist country.


And so long as it's not a bannable offense, I will not stop calling America the Fourth Reich.

OK, but you're only embarrassing yourself with this ridiculous mis-characterisation.

[Zealot]

No it didn't, but that's besides the point. Italian Fascism and Nazism as espoused by Mussolini and Hitler were both forms of Fascism...

Yes, it did. Fascism wasn't even a racial ideology when it first started but that's what it later evolved into.


neo-liberalism is not a form of Fascism, but an ideology of capitalism.

And fascism is not?


Sorry, but what anger? I know self-professed leftists love to proclaim the end is near, and the people are going to rise up tomorrow and make total destroy, but please, go outside. Do you see THAT much anger? Of course, during an economic crisis and throughout the bust phase, there will be expressions of anger - like the occupy movement and its partner movements in Spain, Portugal et al.

I've said elsewhere that the victory of socialism could take another millenium. There is indeed widespread anger, particularly in the periphery, and in my country America has a notorious reputation as a nation of warmongers. This doesn't always translate to public outcry.


But there just isn't anywhere near the critical mass of popular opposition to capitalism to worry the bourgeoisie at this time. That's just a fact.

I agree. The Fourth Reich is very busy ensuring that opposition is suppressed.


The NSAs 'gestapo tactics' (again, pretty fucking disrespectful to those who died or were tortured at the hands of the Nazis, since last time I checked, I don't think Assange, Snowden, Manning or anyone else has been subjected to gassing, un-anaesthetised castration or a lifetime in a labour camp) have been going on for long before the current economic crisis, though, so this doesn't really make sense.

Last I heard, the US has an offshore torture colony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp) and a surveillance state that actually puts 1984 to shame so don't try to hurl accusations of being "disrespectful to those who died or were tortured at the hands of the Nazis". Of course it was going on before the economic crisis and the exposure of their totalitarian project but characterising America as the Fourth Reich would have made no sense to most people prior to these events. It's necessary to make this association now though.


Also, why are you talking about a 'reich'? Reich is a German word, used specifically in context when talking about German empires, so your usage of it is wildly inaccurate. If we used Reich to talk about every empire that ever existed, we'd be on far more than the fourth empire - think the Ottoman and British empires for starters, as well as the USSR.

So? The First Reich referred to the Holy Roman Empire. The Third Reich is associated with fascism and synonymous with Nazi Germany and thus a befitting term for the US empire. The Ottoman and British empires were hardly characteristic of fascism thus the term does not apply.


Probably because America isn't a fascist country.

Totalitarian neoliberalism is the new fascism.


OK, but you're only embarrassing yourself with this ridiculous mis-characterisation.

Your apologism for the American Reich is embarrassing to the entire left-wing.

[synthesis]

So? The First Reich referred to the Holy Roman Empire. The Third Reich is associated with fascism and synonymous with Nazi Germany and thus a befitting term for the US empire.

Everything in its proper context. The use of the word "Reich" in this context doesn't make sense because it does not refer to any predominance of ethnic Germans, which the use of the terms First, Second and Third Reich were all intended to reflect.

[Sam_b]

Your apologism for the American Reich is embarrassing to the entire left-wing.

Irony alert.

[The Douche]

Your apologism for the American Reich is embarrassing to the entire left-wing.

The left-wing of what?



Also, if the US is fascist, why aren't you joining the local maquisards?

[Rafiq]

Italian fascism evolved into Nazism and its latest expression has been authoritarian neoliberalism which is indeed the sign of a desperate bourgeoisie attempting to stem the falling rate of profit and worldwide anger with US imperialism. The massive extent of the NSA's gestapo tactics (such as spying on the UN and, well, basically everyone that's heard of the internet) has been the final indication that America's global domination project heralds the age of the Fourth Reich. American nationalists might not be too pleased with such a characterisation though.

And so long as it's not a bannable offense, I will not stop calling America the Fourth Reich.

the United States as an Imperialist power ideologically supplements capitalism with Liberalism, it is not a Fascist state and has absolutely zero identifiable characteristics of one. The excessive use of authority of a bourgeois state does not in any way signify Fascism, otherwise you could call a lot of Eastern Bloc states fascist. Imperialist ambition is not a unique characteristic to fascism.

[bcbm]

So? The First Reich referred to the Holy Roman Empire.

which was a german empire, like the boss said.