Russian 'Communists' say Elton Johns' clothing is 'gay propaganda'

[Flying Purple People Eater]

http://en.ria.ru/society/20130606/181542767.html


Elton John’s Clothing ‘Gay Propaganda,’ Communist Group Says
Topic: Gay Propaganda Ban in Russia

© AFP 2013/ Max Nash
19:46 06/06/2013
Tags: Cossacks, Communist group, Mikhail Abramyan, Elton John, Krasnodar



MOSCOW, June 6 (RIA Novosti) – A Communist group in southern Russia wants openly gay British pop star Elton John to wear a traditional Cossack uniform at an upcoming concert because his usual flamboyant clothing is “homosexual propaganda,” the group’s leader told RIA Novosti on Thursday.
The singer, who is scheduled to play the city of Krasnodar on July 14, should wear “more respectable” attire when he performs, like a knee-length caftan, a fur hat and leather boots, said Mikhail Abramyan, head of the local branch of the Communists of Russia, not to be confused with the much larger Communist Party of the Russian Federation.
“We hope he’ll wear it,” Abramyan said, adding that the show’s promoters had rejected the idea. Abramyan said his group, which numbers 350, was ready to take to the streets in protest.
The Cossacks are predominantly Eastern Slavs, known for their social conservatism and tsarist-era military exploits, based mainly in southern Russia and Ukraine. Many were suppressed under the Soviets for having supported the tsar during the 1917 Revolution, but today the group is showing a revival, regaining prominence in Russian public life and sometimes performing vigilante police duties.
“Promoting homosexuality” is a criminal offense in many Russian regions, including Krasnodar, and comparable federal legislation is expected to receive final approval by the lower house of parliament next week, a lawmaker told RIA Novosti on Thursday.
That same day, parliament members submitted legislation for news outlets to be fined up to 1 million rubles (about $30,000) for instances of promoting homosexuality, which has remained vaguely defined thus far.
American pop icon Madonna was sued for over $10 million in a lawsuit backed by a St. Petersburg lawmaker last year after she asked fans at a concert there to raise their hands in support of gay pride. The suit was later thrown out of court.

Asked whether he likes John’s music, Abramyan said he preferred songs in Russian.

This is just sad.

What in the fuck has happened to the Russian left. It seems the only 'communists' still around are just shitty myopic nationalist freaks who dream of the stalinist golden-age.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Nothing happened to the Russian left per se - but "official" Communist parties and their splits, which I guess "Communists of Russia" are, have always been miserable, socially conservative outfits, and nationalists and conservatives in many former "Communist" states wave around red flags just as American conservatives and nationalists wave around red-white-blue flags.

[Brotto Rühle]

These "Communists" are nothing more than the bigoted remnants of old Stalinism. They are irrelevant beyond belief. Please, just ignore them.

[Igor]

They are irrelevant beyond belief. Please, just ignore them.

yeah no they're not no matter which way you look at it, they're a very relevant political force in contemporary russia.

i mean it is the biggest opposition party in duma with notable electoral success in 2011 elections and has notable regional strongholds in central russia and caucasus. it's kind of hard to "just ignore" them when they're at the heart of the russian political system and spokespersons for russian chauvinism and hatred towards sexual minorities just as much as united russia is

if someone's irrelevant beyond belief, it's us

[Sasha]

I do think Elton John should wear the cossack outfit though, I'm sure he could subvert it into something ridiculously homo-erotic... :D

[sixdollarchampagne]

I'm all for gay equality: I remember handing out flyers for marriage equality in Boston, and, when I was in the IWW, our branch marched in an enormous Gay Pride parade, at my suggestion. That said, and with respect, when I look at Elton's pink jacket with glitter and the pink sunglasses, it sure looks wikked gay to me, not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Omsk]

They are not "Stalinists". They are chauvinists and nationalists. These news are nothing new.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

They are not "Stalinists". They are chauvinists and nationalists. These news are nothing new.

You do realize it was Stalin who pioneered the persecution of homosexuality in the 20th century Communist movement, right?

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

I do think Elton John should wear the cossack outfit though, I'm sure he could subvert it into something ridiculously homo-erotic... :D

Well, he did manage to take the LA Dodgers' uniform and make it look fabulous!

http://www.eltonjohnitaly.com/14.jpgdod.jpg

[The Feral Underclass]

They have a point :p

[Jimmie Higgins]

All those years of terrible music would be worth it if it means his clothes alone can make Russian men fall in love with him.

Who would have thought that a country where everyone drinks vodka and celebrates bears would be so homophobic?

[Comrade Jacob]

http://andsoithascometothis.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/facepalm-over-animal-ags-stupidity.jpg

[Nemo]

Heinous. This sort of news has been coming out of Russia for ages, but it never ceases to make me sad and sick.

[Orange Juche]

remnants of old Stalinism. They are irrelevant beyond belief.

Is there any other kind of Stalinism? :lol:

[Quail]

facepalm picture
While "facepalm" may be an appropriate sentiment, please don't post images in response to serious threads.

[Devrim]

I do think Elton John should wear the cossack outfit though, I'm sure he could subvert it into something ridiculously homo-erotic... :D


knee-length caftan, a fur hat and leather boots

Well that wouldn't be that difficult for him really, would it?

Devrim

[Delenda Carthago]

http://en.ria.ru/society/20130606/181542767.html



This is just sad.

What in the fuck has happened to the Russian left. It seems the only 'communists' still around are just shitty myopic nationalist freaks who dream of the stalinist golden-age.
These are not the only communists-if they can be categorised like so- in Russia. Thankfully.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

They are not "Stalinists". They are chauvinists and nationalists. These news are nothing new.

I agree completely that they are not Marxist-Leninists (I honestly don't see what's wrong with the term 'stalinist'), hence why I said that they dreamed of the stalinist golden age, i.e. "HOW GREAT OUR PATRIOTIC LEADERS STALIN AND LENIN OF OLD WERE FOR THE GREAT MOTHERLAND. NOTHING LIKE THOSE FEMINAZI JEWISH-JIHAD HOMOSEXUALS WHO DESTROY THE christian CULTURE!"

[Red_Banner]

They forget that Soviet Russia was one of the first to legalise homosexuality and relegalised it in the early 90s.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

They forget that Soviet Russia was one of the first to legalise homosexuality
No it certainly wasn't. There were many capitalist nations at the time that were far more supportive of homosexual rights than the USSR was, Germany and France specifically. Not to mention that homosexuality was banned in the SU only a decade and a half after it was legalised.

Contrary to what you believe, homophobia was widespread in certain parts of Russia during the revolution and this homophobia only intensified from Stalin's ascension to power onward, with the criminalisation of homosexuality, alongside other growing chauvinistic attitudes and policies.


and relegalised it in the early 90s.

You mean when Soviet Russia dissolved? :rolleyes:

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

No it certainly wasn't. There were many capitalist nations at the time that were far more supportive of homosexual rights than the USSR was, Germany and France specifically. Not to mention that homosexuality was banned in the SU only a decade and a half after it was legalised.

France, at least, had a quite good record when it comes to homosexual rights since the great bourgeois revolution, but homosexuality was persistently illegal in the German Empire and the Weimar "Republic". And the laws were enforced. Early Bolshevik Russia was extremely progressive for its time.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Early Bolshevik Russia was extremely progressive for its time.

Until it changed tack and banned homosexuality again.

[helot]

I do think Elton John should wear the cossack outfit though, I'm sure he could subvert it into something ridiculously homo-erotic... :D

Definitely this. He'd get a ton of respect from me despite not liking his music.

[Red_Banner]

No it certainly wasn't. There were many capitalist nations at the time that were far more supportive of homosexual rights than the USSR was, Germany and France specifically. Not to mention that homosexuality was banned in the SU only a decade and a half after it was legalised.

Contrary to what you believe, homophobia was widespread in certain parts of Russia during the revolution and this homophobia only intensified from Stalin's ascension to power onward, with the criminalisation of homosexuality, alongside other growing chauvinistic attitudes and policies.



You mean when Soviet Russia dissolved? :rolleyes:

Germany? Hah! The German Democratic Republic legalised it many years after.

I said one of the first.
Atleast in Europe.

And France legalised it because they had a change in government in a similar way to Russia. Ie. rapid social change and violent revolution.

"You mean when Soviet Russia dissolved?"
No, not at all. Russia merely shortened it's name and removed the CPSU from the Constitution when they left the USSR.
It still called itself socialist and retained the Soviet based Constitution up until the 1993 Constitutional Crisis.

This pre-1994 government of Russia re-legalised homosexuality.

[Devrim]

Homosexuality was legalised in the Ottoman Empire in 1858 over half a century before in Russia.

So what?

Devrim

[Hit The North]

What in the fuck has happened to the Russian left.

It was murdered by Stalin in the 1930s. After that, "communism" under Stalin and his predecessors was just another brand of greater Russian chauvinism, hiding under a red cloak.

[TaylorS]

LOL, Russian "communists" haven't been real Leftists since Stalin. :laugh:

[TaylorS]

Homosexuality was legalised in the Ottoman Empire in 1858 over half a century before in Russia.

So what?

Devrim

The Ottomans legalized homosexuality in 1858??? Really? :ohmy:

[Devrim]

The Ottomans legalized homosexuality in 1858??? Really? :ohmy:

Yes, why should that surprise you?

Devrim

[TaylorS]

Yes, why should that surprise you?

Devrim

Here in the US being gay was considered a MENTAL ILLNESS into the 1970s and homosexuality and "sodomy" was illegal in much of the US before a Supreme Court ruling in the late 1960s.

So much for the BS about "Backward Muslims"! :lol:

[Remus Bleys]

Here in the US being gay was considered a MENTAL ILLNESS into the 1970s and homosexuality and "sodomy" was illegal in much of the US before a Supreme Court ruling in the late 1960s.

So much for the BS about "Backward Muslims"! :lol:

Wasn't that in the early 2000s that the supreme court ruled it was legal?

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

This has nothing to do with Stalinism and is a reflection of a much deeper problem within Russian culture itself and other Slavic/Eastern Bloc nations. Deep seated bigotry such as homophobia and racism pretty much infect every area and every group, somehow or another. Both stains were never really wiped clean, sadly, under the Soviets.

I also don't see how Elton John is flamboyant.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ERcyYzWYWLw/TUoLsN15YDI/AAAAAAAAJr0/FKwQvOBrpFU/s640/ec4c19d254de190aa1bab892e5eb56e253e303a9.jpg

[Remus Bleys]

This has nothing to do with Stalinism and is a reflection of a much deeper problem within Russian culture itself and other Slavic/Eastern Bloc nations. Deep seated bigotry such as homophobia and racism pretty much infect every area and every group, somehow or another. Both stains were never really wiped clean, sadly, under the Soviets.

Your ignoring that lenin legalized homosexuality and stalin persecuted homosexuals. Yes, that came from the culture, but you can't ignore lenin was progressive while stalin was bigoted (in this regard). This has much to do with stalinism.

[Sam_b]

This has much to do with stalinism

It has much more to do with the role of the Orthodox church and its associations with the far-right much more than it has with Stalinism.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Your ignoring that lenin legalized homosexuality and stalin persecuted homosexuals. Yes, that came from the culture, but you can't ignore lenin was progressive while stalin was bigoted (in this regard). This has much to do with stalinism.

No, I'm not, just because Lenin legalized homosexuality means nothing in regards to my statements. Moving forward, to blame Stalin for the re-criminalization of homosexuality is ridiculous and ignores the unimaginable influence the Orthodox church has and has had within Russian politics and culture even despite the revolution.

Not to mention the legalization of homosexuality under Lenin only applied specifically to Russia, not elsewhere.

[TaylorS]

Wasn't that in the early 2000s that the supreme court ruled it was legal?DOH, you are right, it was in 2006, IIRC. I was getting that mixed up with a ruling dealing with privacy back in 1967.

[Hit The North]

No, I'm not, just because Lenin legalized homosexuality means nothing in regards to my statements. Moving forward, to blame Stalin for the re-criminalization of homosexuality is ridiculous and ignores the unimaginable influence the Orthodox church has and has had within Russian politics and culture even despite the revolution.



Are you suggesting that comrade Stalin bowed to the political pressure of the orthodox church? That sounds like bs, frankly.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Are you suggesting that comrade Stalin bowed to the political pressure of the orthodox church? That sounds like bs, frankly.

Are you Russian? Have you ever been and or lived in Russia? If no to all the queries then of course you would feel as such. Stalin was not the God King the West made him out to be.

[Sam_b]

Are you Russian? Have you ever been and or lived in Russia?

Have you?

Not that it matters of course. Are you Syrian? Ever been or lived in Syria? Well, it's funny you have an opinion on that, on other things, on a whole load of stuff actually. Reducing arguments to "well have you been there?", as if otherwise you aren't allowed an opinion, is a complete cop-out. Why don't you back up your assertion with facts rather than trying to duck out if it?

[Old Bolshie]

Your ignoring that lenin legalized homosexuality and stalin persecuted homosexuals. Yes, that came from the culture, but you can't ignore lenin was progressive while stalin was bigoted (in this regard). This has much to do with stalinism.

Lenin didn't specifically legalized homosexuality. After the revolution the Bolsheviks abolished all the Tzarist laws which included laws against homosexuality and the soviet state didn't address the matter until 1933.

According to Dan Healey' research work, Homosexual Desire in Revolutionary Russia: The Regulation of Sexual and Gender Dissent, the Bolshevik party was divided on the issue between “libertarians” such as Alexandra Kollontai who favored the non-interference by the state on the sexual activity and “rationalizers” who favored state regulation of sexual activity in USSR and saw homosexuality as a pathology.

According to Dan's work Lenin belonged to the "rationalizers" camp.

[Remus Bleys]

Lenin didn't specifically legalized homosexuality. After the revolution the Bolsheviks abolished all the Tzarist laws which included laws against homosexuality and the soviet state didn't address the matter until 1933.

According to Dan Healey' research work, Homosexual Desire in Revolutionary Russia: The Regulation of Sexual and Gender Dissent, the Bolshevik party was divided on the issue between “libertarians” such as Alexandra Kollontai who favored the non-interference by the state on the sexual activity and “rationalizers” who favored state regulation of sexual activity in USSR and saw homosexuality as a pathology.

According to Dan's work Lenin belonged to the "rationalizers" camp.Huh. I retract my earlier statement.

Just replace stalinism with leninism then.

[Hit The North]

Are you Russian? Have you ever been and or lived in Russia? If no to all the queries then of course you would feel as such. Stalin was not the God King the West made him out to be.

So, according to you, Stalin made male homosexuality a criminal offence in 1933 under pressure from the orthodox church while at the same time the authorities were waging a campaign against organised religion, closing churches and sending priests to labour camps?

Makes a lot of sense :rolleyes:.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Huh. I retract my earlier statement.

Just replace stalinism with leninism then.

I've got no love for Stalinism but homophobia is not necessarily connected with either of those movements, contemporary or otherwise.

While I've seen a lot of stalinists be apologetic for his chauvinistic positions, I've rarely seen many who've adopted them for their own.

[Remus Bleys]

I've got no love for Stalinism but homophobia is not necessarily connected with either of those movements, contemporary or otherwise.

While I've seen a lot of stalinists be apologetic for his chauvinistic positions, I've rarely seen many who've adopted them for their own.

Wasn't premao china pretty okay for gays? And now its illegak to show gay relations on the television.

[Hit The North]

While I've seen a lot of stalinists be apologetic for his chauvinistic positions, I've rarely seen many who've adopted them for their own.

Enver Hoxha, that most loyal and steadfast of Stalinists, was a raging homophobe, as reflected in Albania's draconian anti-gay laws.

[Devrim]

Here in the US being gay was considered a MENTAL ILLNESS into the 1970s and homosexuality and "sodomy" was illegal in much of the US before a Supreme Court ruling in the late 1960s.

So much for the BS about "Backward Muslims"! :lol:

I think that a lot of people on here, particularly Americans, have problems with things that are American or, at most, Western centred. Much of the Muslim world has a completely different outlook on homosexuality than the standard Western view. Certainly being gay is stigmatised in the Muslim world, but being gay means something different. You are not necessarily gay if you have sex with men, but only if you take the passive role in it. That is a gross generalisation, but it has an essential truth to it. The viewpoint is very different though.

Similarly, there is a thread on here at the moment about banning beards in Albania, where there are lots of people just going on about how absurd it is, without trying to understand its context within the Muslim world at all.

Devrim

[Misericordia]

I think that a lot of people on here, particularly Americans, have problems with things that are American or, at most, Western centred. Much of the Muslim world has a completely different outlook on homosexuality than the standard Western view. Certainly being gay is stigmatised in the Muslim world, but being gay means something different. You are not necessarily gay if you have sex with men, but only if you take the passive role in it. That is a gross generalisation, but it has an essential truth to it. The viewpoint is very different though.

Similarly, there is a thread on here at the moment about banning beards in Albania, where there are lots of people just going on about how absurd it is, without trying to understand its context within the Muslim world at all.

Devrim
Even that isn't entirely correct. In many Muslim countries, men that have sex with men don't consider themselves homosexual because they don't "love" their male sexual partners.

It's not as simple as "bottom=gay, top=straight"(not implying that's what you meant, by the way).

[Old Bolshie]

Huh. I retract my earlier statement.

Just replace stalinism with leninism then.

Pretty much like Star Linn already stated cultural values are not intrinsically associated to Marxism-Leninism at all. You can be social conservative and be a Marxist-Leninist just like you can be progressive and be a Marxist-Leninist as well.

For instance, the Portuguese Communist Party which was one of the few European communist parties to retain Marxism-Leninism at the core of its ideology was a defender of gay marriage in Portugal and a frontrunner in women's right to abort.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Certainly being gay is stigmatised in the Muslim world, but being gay means something different. You are not necessarily gay if you have sex with men, but only if you take the passive role in it.
Yes, but it's still laughable.

Nothing gay about wanting to stick your penis in another man's ass or mouth, but the guy taking it in the ass or mouth? Totally gay. :confused:

[Fred]

Well, "gay" is a social construct. Long ago, working as a waiter, I had a number of Iranian ex-pat co-workers. They were leftish, anti-shah, but they did not have any love for the newly installed Islamic Republic. Anyway, we hung out together, and besides learning some killer idiomatic expressions in Farsi, I learned somethings about their social, political views. One fellow said this about homosexuality in Iran: "There are no gays in Iran. Sure, some guys like to stick their dicks in other guys asses. So what? They would probably stick their dicks in a piece of liver to get off. But they are not gay." What he meant was that as long as there was not "romantic" involvement, it was just sex and did not define the person. I don't really think this is a great perspective, because it often is a screen for anti-gay sentiment. I am a fan of Kinsey's comment to the effect that sex, after all, is merely skin rubbing against skin. Why all the fuss?

As for the USSR -- it is was a big deal that they did away with laws regulating sex. They also were very open to experiments that went outside of the nuclear family structure -- the conservative bureaucracy undid this good work -- which, given the cultural level of the USSR after the Civil War, was a reach. It had little to do with the church and much more to do with exercising bureaucratic control over the populace.

The rest? Stalinism brought the poison of nationalism into the workers movement (where it recrudesces at various times). A lot of other backward stuff as well, relating to sexuality, the family, art, literature, music, etc. Those, Communists in Russia today are a hodgepodge of nationalists, Stalinists, and outright reactionaries. They are not a part of the left IMO.

[Devrim]

Yes, but it's still laughable.

Nothing gay about wanting to stick your penis in another man's ass or mouth, but the guy taking it in the ass or mouth? Totally gay. :confused:

It doesn't seem laughable to me at all. That is how people view it. They are common cultural attitudes.

It seems that there is an attitude on this site that anything that doesn't fit into North American norms is laughable or absurd whether it be different people's ideas about sexuality, or the banning of beards, which was widely mocked on another thread. North America is not actually the world.

Devrim

[cliffhanger]

It seems that there is an attitude on this site that anything that doesn't fit into North American norms is laughable or absurd whether it be different people's ideas about sexuality, or the banning of beards, which was widely mocked on another thread. North America is not actually the world.This is a good point. A lot of American posters here seem to take the basic beliefs of the Democratic Party and then just spin them off into radical-sounding phrases. So if another country does anything that goes against the liberal party-line, like restricting homosexuality, they act like it's some spectacular outrage (I'm not saying it's not bad), but everyday resistance to capitalism as a system takes a back seat. This is because they tail Obama in practice and just follow whatever issues the establishment thinks is important.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

It doesn't seem laughable to me at all. That is how people view it. They are common cultural attitudes.

It seems that there is an attitude on this site that anything that doesn't fit into North American norms is laughable or absurd whether it be different people's ideas about sexuality, or the banning of beards, which was widely mocked on another thread. North America is not actually the world.
We're discussing men who want to stick their dicks in another man's ass or mouth for sexual pleasure. While believing they're not gay, but their male sexual partner is. Yes, people in some cultures view it that way, but why do I have to take such attitudes seriously?

[Devrim]

We're discussing men who want to stick their dicks in another man's ass or mouth for sexual pleasure. While believing they're not gay, but their male sexual partner is. Yes, people in some cultures view it that way, but why do I have to take such attitudes seriously?

You don't have to take it seriously at all. You are totally free to view everything in the world through your own cultural perspective and laugh at different views on anything as if the way things are viewed in America is the only valid way of looking at things. It is, as they might say on the 'left' in your country, your privilege.

Devrim

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

You don't have to take it seriously at all. You are totally free to view everything in the world through your own cultural perspective and laugh at different views on anything as if the way things are viewed in America is the only valid way of looking at things. It is, as they might say on the 'left' in your country, your privilege.
It's not about "cultural perspective" or how "things are viewed in America." A desire to fuck another man is objectively same-sex desire. There's no way around that, no matter how much you stamp your feet and cry "cultural imperialism" or "privilege."

And since when do communists shy away from criticizing things from an objective position just because it might offend the sensibilities of someone? I'll say it again. A desire to fuck another man is objectively same-sex desire.

[Devrim]

I'll say it again. A desire to fuck another man is objectively same-sex desire.

That is not what I am objecting too. What I am objecting too is the way that other cultural views are seen as 'laughable'.

I'm not really interested in labelling people's sexuality. How people tend to define themselves is pretty much OK for me. I don't need to laugh at people.

Devrim

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

That is not what I am objecting too. What I am objecting too is the way that other cultural views are seen as 'laughable'.

I'm not really interested in labelling people's sexuality. How people tend to define themselves is pretty much OK for me. I don't need to laugh at people.
I'm not laughing at people, I'm laughing at an idea, namely that only one party in a same-sex sexual encounter is gay or bisexual. It also strikes me that the cultures or sub-cultures, including in the US, where this view is prevalent tend to be hostile to openly LGBT people.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

After discussing it with Devrim privately, he made some good points, and I retract what I said about it being laughable. It was inappropriate, and indeed contradicted my own views on self-identification.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

That said, I do not think the men who have sex with men / gay men distinction is politically unproblematic, since it often serves to further homophobic attitudes (as, indeed, did the original hetero/homosexual distinction in "the West") in particularly machistic cultures.