May Day Speech at Rally--Socialist Agitation

[Alan OldStudent]

Hello comrades,

This is a video of a speech given at a May Day rally in Tacoma, Washington, to a group of Occupy Tacoma activists and some members of a picketing union of hospital workers. This speech talks about May Day's origins, class consciousness, the trap of electoral politics, and the need for workers to take power in their own name. The speech is aimed at people who are open to radical politics but many of whom know little about socialism or revolution.

Regards,
Alan OldStudent
The unexamined life is not worth living--Socrates
http://alanoldstudent.nfshost.com/general_images/Dingbats/divide4.gif

kT4ze0rgzg4

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Great speech. I had some problem with calling mayday as american as apple pie, but I guess that was more to distance mayday from Soviet and east-european “socialism”

[Alan OldStudent]

Great speech. I had some problem with calling mayday as american as apple pie, but I guess that was more to distance mayday from Soviet and east-european “socialism”

Hello Comrade Judas,

Your remarks are appreciated.

The speech itself emphasizes that although May Day has its roots in the United States, it is an international holiday, and that world-wide labor is what creates the basic wealth of the human race.

Many American workers associate socialism, anarchism, and so on as not being applicable to them, some sort of foreign ideas. The speech, in part, tries to say that we American workers are a part of an international class.

Regards,
Alan OldStudent
The unexamined life is not worth living--Socrates
http://alanoldstudent.nfshost.com/general_images/Dingbats/divide4.gif

[nizan]

Didn't watch the speech, but it's a speech I've heard American's give far too many times. May Day was peaceful, reformist, American, and a really good day for occupy assholes to 'reclaim' for sparkle hands.

I think I liked it before the Occupy types got a hold of it. Before you write your next speech, sit down, take off the fedora, and ask yourself this, 'Who gives a fuck?'.

[Alan OldStudent]

Didn't watch the speech, but it's a speech I've heard American's give far too many times. May Day was peaceful, reformist, American, and a really good day for occupy assholes to 'reclaim' for sparkle hands.

I think I liked it before the Occupy types got a hold of it. Before you write your next speech, sit down, take off the fedora, and ask yourself this, 'Who gives a fuck?'.
Hello Comrade Nizan,

Please forgive the impudence of my confession, comrade, but I’m actually a bit jealous of you. If only I possessed your revolutionary perceptiveness.

You see, even though I’ve been politically conscious for over well over 5 decades, I still have to actually see a video or hear a speech before I can form any intelligent assessment of it, let alone analyze it.

You, on the other hand, seem to be able to assess the merit of a speech without going through the irksome task of actually watching the bloody thing or knowing anything about the speaker at all! How convenient that must be for you. You can save yourself lots of time and the work of actually thinking about it.

Most people are not so talented. Kudos to you, Comrade. Your's must be a stunningly psychic mind, the mind of a great revolutionary theoretician!

No doubt you’d be a great revolutionary leader, if only the masses had the wit and wisdom to pay you any attention at all. As Puck says, "Lord! What fools these mortals be!"

http://alanoldstudent.nfshost.com/general_images/Dingbats/divide4.gif

And I loved the incisive terms you used, your dialectic precision! How silly of me not to realize that some old American geezer’s address to a crowd of Occupy “assholes” and striking workers would be no more than a worthless paean of praise to a “peaceful, reformist, American” May Day, complete with sparkle hands, so utterly devoid of revolutionary content. I’m in awe of your splendid mastery of dialectic logic, comrade!

Nevertheless, I have one tiny note of constructive criticism, Comrade. I hope you’re not offended, as I mean no disrespect to you at all.

You must really see about setting up an appointment with an ophthalmologist for an eye exam.

You see, that hat was not a fedora. It was no more than a vulgar working-class garment, an Irish heather, tightly-woven, wool tweed hat, suitable for the kind of rain, sleet, and icy misty winds that kept pestering the speaker and those reformist union picketers and striking Occupy supporters.

http://alanoldstudent.nfshost.com/general_images/Dingbats/divide4.gif

Please sir, the speaker has a great favor to ask of you.

He would be grateful if he could send you the text of his next speech to see if anyone “gives a fuck,” as you so artfully and gracefully put it. You see, the speaker is given to delusions that working people, such as those who were striking that day in the wind, rain, ice, and sleet, might actually have some interest in revolutionary socialism. If you could give his next speech a once-over, it might save the speaker from a lot of embarrassment, as you could winnow out the politically incorrect and counterrevolutionary verbiage.

By the way, are you related to some bloke named Antoine Bloye? Your avatar looks a bit like his son.

Regards,

Alan OldStudent
The unexamined life is not worth living—Socrates
http://alanoldstudent.nfshost.com/general_images/Dingbats/redbutterfly.gif

[nizan]

Hello Comrade Nizan,

Please forgive the impudence of my confession, comrade, but I’m actually a bit jealous of you. If only I possessed your revolutionary perceptiveness.

You see, even though I’ve been politically conscious for over well over 5 decades, I still have to actually see a video or hear a speech before I can form any intelligent assessment of it, let alone analyze it.

You, on the other hand, seem to be able to assess the merit of a speech without going through the irksome task of actually watching the bloody thing or knowing anything about the speaker at all! How convenient that must be for you. You can save yourself lots of time and the work of actually thinking about it.

Most people are not so talented. Kudos to you, Comrade. Your's must be a stunningly psychic mind, the mind of a great revolutionary theoretician!

No doubt you’d be a great revolutionary leader, if only the masses had the wit and wisdom to pay you any attention at all. As Puck says, "Lord! What fools these mortals be!"

http://alanoldstudent.nfshost.com/general_images/Dingbats/divide4.gif

And I loved the incisive terms you used, your dialectic precision! How silly of me not to realize that some old American geezer’s address to a crowd of Occupy “assholes” and striking workers would be no more than a worthless paean of praise to a “peaceful, reformist, American” May Day, complete with sparkle hands, so utterly devoid of revolutionary content. I’m in awe of your splendid mastery of dialectic logic, comrade!

Nevertheless, I have one tiny note of constructive criticism, Comrade. I hope you’re not offended, as I mean no disrespect to you at all.

You must really see about setting up an appointment with an ophthalmologist for an eye exam.

You see, that hat was not a fedora. It was no more than a vulgar working-class garment, an Irish heather, tightly-woven, wool tweed hat, suitable for the kind of rain, sleet, and icy misty winds that kept pestering the speaker and those reformist union picketers and striking Occupy supporters.

http://alanoldstudent.nfshost.com/general_images/Dingbats/divide4.gif

Please sir, the speaker has a great favor to ask of you.

He would be grateful if he could send you the text of his next speech to see if anyone “gives a fuck,” as you so artfully and gracefully put it. You see, the speaker is given to delusions that working people, such as those who were striking that day in the wind, rain, ice, and sleet, might actually have some interest in revolutionary socialism. If you could give his next speech a once-over, it might save the speaker from a lot of embarrassment, as you could winnow out the politically incorrect and counterrevolutionary verbiage.

By the way, are you related to some bloke named Antoine Bloye? Your avatar looks a bit like his son.

Regards,

Alan OldStudent
The unexamined life is not worth living—Socrates
http://alanoldstudent.nfshost.com/general_images/Dingbats/redbutterfly.gif

Yes, yes, I have not been 'politically conscious' for decades. I was 20 once, however, and I think that should suffice.

I'm a bit jealous of myself too, if we're being quite honest. I can understand this position. I prefer a general staff without an army, however.

All your strikes, all your rain, and all your revolutionary socialism, very grand and appealing to the ideological virgin these bits are, surely, but I've grown tired of these phrases. No, I'm bored with speeches, I'd like something more.

And Lautreamont was before the time of Nizan and his Antoine Bloye.

[Leftsolidarity]

Didn't watch the speech

Then anything you say about the speech means absolutely nothing. If you're going to criticize something, you have to know what that something is.

[nizan]

Then anything you say about the speech means absolutely nothing. If you're going to criticize something, you have to know what that something is.

Fine, you caught me, I watched the first 3 minutes before making my first post.

My critiques can mean something now, right?

[Alan OldStudent]

Then anything you say about the speech means absolutely nothing. If you're going to criticize something, you have to know what that something is.
Fine, you caught me, I watched the first 3 minutes before making my first post.

My critiques can mean something now, right?

Why of course your critiques can mean something. It’s a free country, right? Don't let those mean old antidemocratic commies brow-beat you into silence!

So, Comrade Leftsolidarity, quit picking on poor Comrade Nizan :crying:

After all, aren’t there plenty of folks around who can intelligently critique Karl Marx after only reading the first 2 paragraphs of the Communist Manifesto and an outline of Das Kapital in a Cliff's Notes test preparation book for a Western Civ 101 semi-final exam?

So Comrade Leftsolidarity, why the hell can't Comrade Nizan brilliantly critique the whole ganze megillah of that speech? After all, didn't Comrade Nizan admit to sitting through the first 2 boring minutes of that old zhlub droning on about twinkle hands? Lighten up already!

http://alanoldstudent.nfshost.com/general_images/Dingbats/Sheesh1.png

http://alanoldstudent.nfshost.com/general_images/Dingbats/divide4.gif

Hey Comrade Nizan,

In my previous praise of your immense talents, I engaged in this bit of revolutionary self criticism:

...Please forgive the impudence of my confession, comrade, but I’m actually a bit jealous of you. If only I possessed your revolutionary perceptiveness.
Your humble and quite appropriate response was:

I'm a bit jealous of myself too, if we're being quite honest. I can understand this position. I prefer a general staff without an army, however.
Excellent point, a memorable yet modest riposte Comrade Nizan!

After all, it really is much easier to just have the masses be bystanders in their liberation instead of actual participants, no? And piss on all those ignorant pseudo-revolutionaries who say such an attitude is elitist and condescending. Who bloody cares what those reformist putzes think anyhow, right?

This should be our watchword!

Workers of the world, unite (in watching our heroic struggles to free you).
Don't reach for the channel changer!
Relax! We'll do it for you because we're revolutionaries!
You've nothing to lose but your sense of ennui and apathy!

http://alanoldstudent.nfshost.com/general_images/Dingbats/divide4.gif

All your strikes, all your rain, and all your revolutionary socialism, very grand and appealing to the ideological virgin these bits are, surely, but I've grown tired of these phrases. No, I'm bored with speeches, I'd like something more. Yeah! Maybe we should all just stop making speeches and talking, talking, talking.

Let's do something! Something radical instead, right? Here, comrade, take this red banner and lead!

The hell with actual thought! Let’s go do something really revolutionary like setting rubbish bins on fire or chucking rocks at bank windows. Speeches and agitation about the need for revolutionary socialism are just a liberal crashing bore, as well as a waste of time, no? :laugh:

Regards,

Alan OldStudent
The unexamined life is not worth living-Socrates

[nizan]

Why of course your critiques can mean something. It’s a free country, right? Don't let those mean old antidemocratic commies brow-beat you into silence!

So, Comrade Leftsolidarity, quit picking on poor Comrade Nizan :crying:

After all, aren’t there plenty of folks around who can intelligently critique Karl Marx after only reading the first 2 paragraphs of the Communist Manifesto and an outline of Das Kapital in a Cliff's Notes test preparation book for a Western Civ 101 semi-final exam?

So Comrade Leftsolidarity, why the hell can't Comrade Nizan brilliantly critique the whole ganze megillah of that speech? After all, didn't Comrade Nizan admit to sitting through the first 2 boring minutes of that old zhlub droning on about twinkle hands? Lighten up already!

http://alanoldstudent.nfshost.com/general_images/Dingbats/Sheesh1.png

http://alanoldstudent.nfshost.com/general_images/Dingbats/divide4.gif

Hey Comrade Nizan,

In my previous praise of your immense talents, I engaged in this bit of revolutionary self criticism:

Your humble and quite appropriate response was:

Excellent point, a memorable yet modest riposte Comrade Nizan!

After all, it really is much easier to just have the masses be bystanders in their liberation instead of actual participants, no? And piss on all those ignorant pseudo-revolutionaries who say such an attitude is elitist and condescending. Who bloody cares what those reformist putzes think anyhow, right?

This should be our watchword!

Workers of the world, unite (in watching our heroic struggles to free you).
Don't reach for the channel changer!
Relax! We'll do it for you because we're revolutionaries!
You've nothing to lose but your sense of ennui and apathy!

http://alanoldstudent.nfshost.com/general_images/Dingbats/divide4.gif
Yeah! Maybe we should all just stop making speeches and talking, talking, talking.

Let's do something! Something radical instead, right? Here, comrade, take this red banner and lead!

The hell with actual thought! Let’s go do something really revolutionary like setting rubbish bins on fire or chucking rocks at bank windows. Speeches and agitation about the need for revolutionary socialism are just a liberal crashing bore, as well as a waste of time, no? :laugh:

Regards,

Alan OldStudent
The unexamined life is not worth living-Socrates

I honestly don't see the issue with a war on the world of the commodity, no. The destruction of a bank or a rubbish bin may be an action initially aimed purely at the appearances and psychogeographical order of the spectacle, but I'm convinced sculpture may yet come of such acts. Certainly sounds a bit more interesting that waving the red flag about and giving speeches, at the absolute least.

You've provided us with brilliant pieces of rhetoric and jest, surely, but all the prose in the world will fail to make theory of ideology.

[Alan OldStudent]

I honestly don't see the issue with a war on the world of the commodity, no. The destruction of a bank or a rubbish bin may be an action initially aimed purely at the appearances and psychogeographical order of the spectacle, but I'm convinced sculpture may yet come of such acts. Certainly sounds a bit more interesting that waving the red flag about and giving speeches, at the absolute least. ...

So do you think delivering socialist agitation speeches plays a role in developing mass sentiment for revolutionary change? I ask because I don't think revolutionary change can come about unless there is mass sentiment for it. How do you compare the effectiveness of agitational speeches to psychogeographical spectacles of the type advocated by the dadaist situationist international (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situationist_International). Try to answer that from a practical point of view, okay?

Personally, I think speeches are a far more effective method of propaganda than "exemplary" acts of derring-do and détournment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9tournement#Examples_after_the_Situationist_ International) that small, more-or-less isolated activists carry out.

Regards,

Alan OldStudent
The unexamined life is not worth living--Socrates

[nizan]

So do you think delivering socialist agitation speeches plays a role in developing mass sentiment for revolutionary change? I ask because I don't think revolutionary change can come about unless there is mass sentiment for it. How do you compare the effectiveness of agitational speeches to psychogeographical spectacles of the type advocated by the dadaist situationist international (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situationist_International). Try to answer that from a practical point of view, okay?

Personally, I think speeches are a far more effective method of propaganda than "exemplary" acts of derring-do and détournment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9tournement#Examples_after_the_Situationist_ International) that small, more-or-less isolated activists carry out.

Regards,

Alan OldStudent
The unexamined life is not worth living--Socrates

Come now, the SI was not explicitly 'Dadaist', they considered Dadaist revival movements to be utterly laughable, deserving of little more than contempt. While there can be little doubt the SI took from Dada as it pleased, their critique of the movement that it sought the end of art without its realization remains valid enough.

The speech implies preparation, hierarchy, alienation, all negatives of participation, whereas acts of detournement can be made by all without prerequisite. When your occupy was looking for someone to make a speech, they were ideological selective, no doubt, steeped in all the separations of the world in their tastes for decency. They chose the well spoken socialist cadre of 5 decades, one who has long since shown himself an inoffensive compromise with all the mediations of power, while trying to avoid the 'spectacle' of life or intrigue.

Speechmaking is dead, a fading vestige on an era no longer justified in its claim to continuity, a spectator sport only to be enjoyed by the unconscious. The future of revolution can surely do no worse in its pursuits of detournement than what it has since been presented with.

[Alan OldStudent]

Hello Comrade Nizan,

The glibness of what you’re saying fascinates me. For example:

The speech implies preparation, hierarchy, alienation, all negatives of participation
That makes me want to ask a few questions:

How and Where does this speech "imply"

Preparation?
Hierarchy?
Alienation?
Please be specific.

.
What do you mean by "participation"? I find it odd that one who supports detournement as a strategy for revolution might view participation with a jaundiced eye.

.
Why, pray tell, is "participation" of working people in their own liberation negative? Would you have the masses wait for the Third Situationist International to save them from the boredom of doing the job themselves, as soon as the SI rises from the ashes?


http://alanoldstudent.nfshost.com/general_images/Dingbats/divide4.gif


Speechmaking is dead, a fading vestige on an era no longer justified in its claim to continuity,...

Forgive me, but that that's another example of glibness. That statement actually sounds a bit odd coming from a supporter of the long-dead and nearly-forgotten Situationist International.


Speechmaking ... a spectator sport only to be enjoyed by the unconscious.
In my neck of the woods, unconscious people don't customarily enjoy spectator sports, unless they're totally shickered.

http://alanoldstudent.nfshost.com/general_images/Dingbats/divide4.gif

You know, being a revolutionary is always cool, but being cool is not always revolutionary.

AdBusters, which has some roots in the early Situationist movements, understands the necessity for mass action and speeches. It provided the spark for the Occupy movement when it called for 20,000 people to occupy Wall Street as one of its culture jamming happenings.

Regards,

Alan OldStudent
The unexamined life is not worth living—Socrates

[nizan]

Hello Comrade Nizan,

The glibness of what you’re saying fascinates me. For example:

That makes me want to ask a few questions:

How and Where does this speech "imply"

Preparation?
Hierarchy?
Alienation?
Please be specific.

.
What do you mean by "participation"? I find it odd that one who supports detournement as a strategy for revolution might view participation with a jaundiced eye.

.
Why, pray tell, is "participation" of working people in their own liberation negative? Would you have the masses wait for the Third Situationist International to save them from the boredom of doing the job themselves, as soon as the SI rises from the ashes?


http://alanoldstudent.nfshost.com/general_images/Dingbats/divide4.gif



Forgive me, but that that's another example of glibness. That statement actually sounds a bit odd coming from a supporter of the long-dead and nearly-forgotten Situationist International.


In my neck of the woods, unconscious people don't customarily enjoy spectator sports, unless they're totally shickered.

http://alanoldstudent.nfshost.com/general_images/Dingbats/divide4.gif

You know, being a revolutionary is always cool, but being cool is not always revolutionary.

AdBusters, which has some roots in the early Situationist movements, understands the necessity for mass action and speeches. It provided the spark for the Occupy movement when it called for 20,000 people to occupy Wall Street as one of its culture jamming happenings.

Regards,

Alan OldStudent
The unexamined life is not worth living—Socrates

My first comment on the formulation of the speech wasn't specific to your own. The very fact that it was a speech is enough evidence to its contents, however.

And Adbusters knows fuck all about the SI or its theory, they're a bunch of hack pro-situs who have since proven themselves entirely incapable of understanding a word of situationist writing. Occupy Wall Street was at the best a throw-back to the provos movement in the Netherlands around the 60s, which the SI thoroughly despised as amounting to a purely spectacular indulgence in the illusory image of revolt. The SI was never peaceful, reformist, or gradual in their demands, they never paid the slightest of a fuck towards the militant nor the student, and they certainly did not care for revolutions made in halves, all of which Occupy was and still is infinitely guilty of.

Lastly, the SI was marginal with self-intent. 'The more well known our theses are made, the more obscure we will become'.

[Alan OldStudent]

Hello Comrade Nizan,


My first comment on the formulation of the speech wasn't specific to your own. The very fact that it was a speech is enough evidence to its contents, however.

And Adbusters knows fuck all about the SI or its theory, they're a bunch of hack pro-situs who have since proven themselves entirely incapable of understanding a word of situationist writing. Occupy Wall Street was at the best a throw-back to the provos movement in the Netherlands around the 60s, which the SI thoroughly despised as amounting to a purely spectacular indulgence in the illusory image of revolt. The SI was never peaceful, reformist, or gradual in their demands, they never paid the slightest of a fuck towards the militant nor the student, and they certainly did not care for revolutions made in halves, all of which Occupy was and still is infinitely guilty of.

Lastly, the SI was marginal with self-intent. 'The more well known our theses are made, the more obscure we will become'.

We’ve had a very good exchange of views. Although at first, I had difficulty understanding your position, it is now becoming clear to me. You gave me some things to research a bit, and as a consequence, I feel I have learned some new things about the Situationists that I had not realized before.

So I had an opportunity to learn something, and for that I thank you. Others who come here and read this thread will get a clear understanding of several sides of this debate.

It’s not that I think SI and people who think like you have nothing to offer. Of course, you do. But at the same time, I see a lot of black-and-white, either-or in your approach. Organizing, writing, speaking, demonstrating are all tools to use in mobilizing the kind of mass support and mass action necessary to wrest control from the capitalist class and put it in the hands of the masses. We need to break out of our isolation, not identify with it.


Regards,

Alan OldStudent
The unexamined life is not worth living—Socrates