Types of ruling classes

[Sotionov]

I was discussing with some people, some being anti-leftists, and the issue of class society was talked about, naturally, and I gave them my opinion of what "bad classes" are, that me, as a libertarian socialist, am against.

I enumerated them like this- the economic, political, theoretical, and general social ruling classes.

The economic ruling class is the bosses [together with their servants] (in capitalism- capitalists and management), the political is the rulers (in capitalism- politicians and bureaucracy), in theory those are the masters of ideas and education (in capitalism "intellectuals", those who manage the education, academia and media), and in society in general the ruling classes [or ruling classes aspirants] are those that discriminate (racists, nationalists, sexists, etc.).

I said that I'm for abolishing all those types of the ruling class, and establishment of a system where the emancipated working class would organize horizontally.

What would be your opinions of such a systematization, I'm mostly asking anarchists and libertarian socialists, but if anyone has though-provoking comments, please share.

[Coggeh]

I was discussing with some people, some being anti-leftists, and the issue of class society was talked about, naturally, and I gave them my opinion of what "bad classes" are, that me, as a libertarian socialist, am against.

I enumerated them like this- the economic, political, theoretical, and general social ruling classes.

The economic ruling class is the bosses [together with their servants] (in capitalism- capitalists and management), the political is the rulers (in capitalism- politicians and bureaucracy), in theory those are the masters of ideas and education (in capitalism "intellectuals", those who manage the education, academia and media), and in society in general the ruling classes [or ruling classes aspirants] are those that discriminate (racists, nationalists, sexists, etc.).

I said that I'm for abolishing all those types of the ruling class, and establishment of a system where the emancipated working class would organize horizontally.

What would be your opinions of such a systematization, I'm mostly asking anarchists and libertarian socialists, but if anyone has though-provoking comments, please share.

I think your insight is quite good here. However there is just one ruling class in a sense. The people who control capital, who control the productive forces in society, many of the strands of people you refer to are not ruling class but however many be a sort of spokesperson on behalf of the ruling class if you see my meaning.

The government are apart the ruling class despite them not necessarily controlling any of the means of production but are the political arm of the bourgeoise. Academics and 'intellectuals', racists, sexists etc are (in my view) a not intentional voice for the bourgeoise. Rather they are products of capitalist society. They are not a class of people as racism etc is most common amongst the working class. Yes we will fight tooth an nail against all of the above however.

[Sotionov]

A position that is inderstendable from a marxist perspective. Not being a marxist, I use "class" for stratification of society in general, for any gradation into superior or subordinate groups. And I'm not fan of marxist economic reductionism, but I recognize that economy is an important part of stratification in general e.g. the political part of the ruling class also lives off the labor of the working people, like the economic rulers; when racists and nationalists have their way, the discriminated race(s)/ nationalities certainly end up in a worse economic situation, when patriarchists have their way the women do all the domestic work, and get less pay in jobs, etc. etc.

[Coggeh]

Not to distract from the topic but if we could engage in a discussion about Marxist economics etc and you're problems with it that would be very interesting.


A position that is inderstendable from a marxist perspective. Not being a marxist, I use "class" for stratification of society in general, for any gradation into superior or subordinate groups. And I'm not fan of marxist economic reductionism, but I recognize that economy is an important part of stratification in general e.g. the political part of the ruling class also lives off the labor of the working people, like the economic rulers; when racists and nationalists have their way, the discriminated race(s)/ nationalities certainly end up in a worse economic situation, when patriarchists have their way the women do all the domestic work, and get less pay in jobs, etc. etc.
Anyway, Its not about racists or sexists getting their way as such, the capitalist class is only too happy to see the rise of nationalist and sexist ideas as a means of dividing the working class. Capitalism actively breeds these ideas to undermine working class unity.

The point i was trying to make was that yes they may seem like a ruling class in a sense, as in their function represses class struggle, however is there a strand of class known as a racist or a sexist class that can be overthrown ? I don't think so, merely they are products of the capitalist class and system existing today

[nizan]

The precise entity of the ruling class is hardly relevant given the current state of overdevelopment in the usage of the class, in correlation to modern economic power. Classes are no longer conscious actors within the realm of history, merely subjects to a system of production long since run astray of its initial point of origin, of its entrance into what once may have been termed as historical. No longer do classes act as classes, they act as individuals functioning within an increasingly complex totality advanced to a point where none of its participants may be imbued, reasonably, with an understanding of its function.

Class is irrelevant when spoken of in terms outside of the negative, when spoken purely in the language of classical domination.