Have the Police ever been on our side?

[NeonTrotski]

Almost all Communists and most Anarchists agree that cops are agents of state oppression.
But of those that believe that they are our working class brothers, I ask:
Has there ever been a revolution (successful or not) that the police have sided with the workers against the capitalists?

[BIXX]

Not the police as an organization. Sometimes there have been police or soldiers that have become anarchists/communists (Bakunin, and (forgive me if I get the name wrong) our very own The Douche are examples of this).

They have never been on our side while they were police though. Some soldiers have been anarchists or communists while they were serving, but I don't know if they'd refuse to fight against us if ordered to. I'd recommend asking The Douche.

They are not our working class comrades though. Not while they are in the police force. Of course, ask The Douche about the soldiers.

[Comrade Jacob]

Not in my experience.

[Luisrah]

Well, depending on the country, they might be workers and if the State in that country is stupid enough (generally isn't) to lower wages on them, then they might turn to our side.

A peaceful revolution once happened in Portugal due to this. A fascist or semi-fascist regime dragged young people from their homes to fight in wars to protect colonies. They had to serve for 2 years. This created a huge amount of young low-ranked soldiers who hated what they were doing.
Eventually, things were so bad that all they had to do was point the guns at their generals and turn things around completely without shooting a bullet.

Some comrades may not agree with me, but I think it is of great importance to get the police and army on our side. It's risky though (as is everything) since they can change things depending if they get a paycheck from someone else...but still, if they support the proletariat (instead of actually doing the revolution with support of the workers) they can make things advance much faster and with less blood.

[Per Levy]

the only event that i know where a few police forces joined a workers uprising was the railroad strike of 1877(if i remember corectly), yeah that far back. the police is the enemy no matter what, though.

[NeonTrotski]

I should state that I do not mean the army. The police and the army are two distinctly different groups.
There are a myriad of times the army sided with the people. Do I even need to mention the most famous and arguably the most important revolution to have the armed forces side with the working class.
My question is primarily aimed at socialist groups who support the police (not the army) as working class brothers.

[ind_com]

Almost all Communists and most Anarchists agree that cops are agents of state oppression.
But of those that believe that they are our working class brothers, I ask:
Has there ever been a revolution (successful or not) that the police have sided with the workers against the capitalists?

The lower ranks have. However, this is possible only when the communist camp has is extremely powerful politically and militarily. Otherwise the police should be treated as enemies.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-07-29/patna/40871360_1_spos-maoists-lower-rung-cops

http://thecanaratimes.com/epaper/index.php/archives/3249


On several occasions, the ultras have made it clear that the Red rebels have nothing against the lower rungs of the police force, particularly constables, as they by and large come from the same socio-economic class whose interest Maoists claim to be championing. Earlier, the Maoists, as part of their strategy made the time-tested institution of village-level chowkidars virtually redundant either by winning over them or browbeating them with the result that the information channel has almost been choked. Most of the chowkidars have also lost credibility and several of them are suspected to double cross while drawing remuneration from the public exchequer.

[Popular Front of Judea]

By their nature police as rule side with the establishment of the city that employs them. This should not come as a surprise. One of the many things that The Wire got right is showing how much securing their pension drives police behavior. Why step out of line and put all that at risk?

There is the odd exception such as Sheriff Sid Hatfield of Matewan, West Virginia. He sided with the miners of his town in the Battle of Matewan, depicted in fictionalized form in John Sayles film Matewan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matewan_Massacre

The question I have to ask the A.C.A.B. set is what distinguishes our own organizational security from the city police? What is the defining characteristic that differentiates the march marshal or the camp security volunteer from the rank and file uniformed officer? After the revolution what will differentiate our workers defense militia from the old regime police force?

[BIXX]

I think my post may have been misunderstood. A member of the police forever can only side with us when they are no longer a member of that police force.

[Delenda Carthago]

At the spanish revolution aka civil war, the majority of policeman joined the democratic front.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

If the bourgeois cops put down their guns and join the working class' armed forces, then the cops will be on our side.

[Sotionov]

In a political revolution done by a large enough number of people, the majority of army and police ends up supporting the people, as in "color revolutions". I was a witness to this in the Serbian "bulldozer revolution".

[BIXX]

And have joined our "workers defense militia"?

Only in extreme circumstances. Also, only when they have the ability to leave the police force.

I believe another poster had some examples above.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

As an entity, no. Law Enforcement will never be on the side of the revolution, even if some within its ranks sympathize. Here in the U.S., police are no longer just arms of the state, they are their own cabal that exists to perpetuate their influence and power, whilst using the excuse that they are somehow the sole protectors of the public. "To serve and protect" my ass. They're kind of like the yakuza, except that the yakuza is more honest about being total assholes.

Now, individual cops? That's a little different. Many in the lower echelons of law enforcement are from the working class themselves. But any cop who is sympathetic with the revolution will more than likely no longer be an active cop. This person will have entered the police with the best of intentions, spent a few years stewing in the reality, and then tearing off their badges, walking out of the station and never looking back.

Sort of the same way with the army. The army itself as an entity is counter-revolutionary by its nature, but individual soldiers are a different story.

[BIXX]

As an entity, no. Law Enforcement will never be on the side of the revolution, even if some within its ranks sympathize. Here in the U.S., police are no longer just arms of the state, they are their own cabal that exists to perpetuate their influence and power, whilst using the excuse that they are somehow the sole protectors of the public. "To serve and protect" my ass. They're kind of like the yakuza, except that the yakuza is more honest about being total assholes.

Now, individual cops? That's a little different. Many in the lower echelons of law enforcement are from the working class themselves. But any cop who is sympathetic with the revolution will more than likely no longer be an active cop. This person will have entered the police with the best of intentions, spent a few years stewing in the reality, and then tearing off their badges, walking out of the station and never looking back.

Sort of the same way with the army. The army itself as an entity is counter-revolutionary by its nature, but individual soldiers are a different story.

That's what I was trying to say :P

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

That's what I was trying to say :P

Yeah, but I used prettier words.

Plus, my post's dad could beat up your post's dad. :P

[BIXX]

Yeah, but I used prettier words.

Hahaha, my wording was Pretty damn bad.


Plus, my post's dad could beat up your post's dad. :P

NUH-UH

[Red Nightmare]

The police/armed forces/etc. is literally designed to be against us, to preserve the state and crush revolutionaries

[Popular Front of Judea]

Who is us? Speaking as someone who has been arrested and
has called the police a little nuance would be good when discussing the police. Life always is more complicated than theory.



The police/armed forces/etc. is literally designed to be against us, to preserve the state and crush revolutionaries

[piet11111]

The function of the police is to safeguard law (designed to protect the rights of the capitalists and their property) and impose order (sweep us of the streets should we protest outside "free speech" zones)

As such their entire training is to consider us working masses as opponents and criminals who haven't been caught yet.

The military is trained to fight the "foreign" threat and does not by its training see us as the enemy (though this is changing)

Low ranking soldiers will see us as their brothers and sisters and will have serious issue using force against us.
In Egypt the army is terrified of having to use its troops against the working class as a whole (the muslim brotherhood managed to piss off the soldiers just fine) and has come close to breaking along class lines during the last days of the Mubarak regime.
And also why in Tienanmen square they had to resort to soldiers from the other side of the country.

Sure as individuals the police might be sympathetic to us but as an organization they are hostile to us.
So much so that in Greece the normal cops got beaten up by the riot police.