Norwegian Woman Jailed for being raped in Dubai

[d3crypt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdgR_d1xv0E

[helot]

Wasn't she pardoned?


edit: yup she was and apparently the rapist too!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23404042

[d3crypt]

Wasn't she pardoned?


edit: yup she was and apparently the rapist too!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23404042

Ya, but only after an international outrage. Think about how often this happens.

[helot]

It'd probably happen a hell of alot, i lack statistics though.

The law around rape in Dubai is fucked up especially requiring 4 adult males as witnesses. I'd imagine that there'd be a 0% conviction rate especially considering that men, even some men is radical circles, have a horrid habit of dismissing rape allegations and passing blame onto the survivor.

I'm not the most clued up on Dubai or anything but to me it seems like a legal designation of women as infantle.

[Chop_Sugar_Cane_Dem]

Serious question: If those who are drunk are unable to consent, but both parties are drunk and they end up having sex...does this mean they rape each other, and if so/not, how does one establish this?

Thank you

[Remus Bleys]

Serious question: If those who are drunk are unable to consent, but both parties are drunk and they end up having sex...does this mean they rape each other, and if so/not, how does one establish this?

Thank you

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?t=181507 (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?t=181507)

[Chop_Sugar_Cane_Dem]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?t=181507 (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?t=181507)

Thanks, but that didn't answer my question at all.

[Remus Bleys]

Wasn't that your question? Getting someone drunk to fuck them?
I would say its close enough.
If they are both drunk though, its nobodies fault.

[Chop_Sugar_Cane_Dem]

Wasn't that your question? Getting someone drunk to fuck them?
I would say its close enough.
If they are both drunk though, its nobodies fault.

You must be joking, right?

Surely in the real world, some people are physically stronger than others and that does have an outcome on who is the rapist...a physically weaker person can rape, but if a physically weak person does not consent and the physically stronger person has their way, despite intoxication, I'd say it's still rape.

Otherwise, where do you draw the line? Alcoholic wife-beating stepfathers who say they didn't consent, so them forcing themselves on their wives was simply "nonconsensual sex that isn't rape"?

I don't quite follow.

[Remus Bleys]

You must be joking, right?

Surely in the real world, some people are physically stronger than others and that does have an outcome on who is the rapist...a physically weaker person can rape, but if a physically weak person does not consent and the physically stronger person has their way, despite intoxication, I'd say it's still rape.

Otherwise, where do you draw the line? Alcoholic wife-beating stepfathers who say they didn't consent, so them forcing themselves on their wives was simply "nonconsensual sex that isn't rape"?

I don't quite follow.
If they are both drunk though, its nobodies fault.
If two drunk strangers meet eachother at a bar and fuck eachother simply because they are both drunk, then it is nobodies fault.
If they were both drunk, and one raped the other, then it is rape.
"
Serious question: If those who are drunk are unable to consent, but both parties are drunk and they end up having sex...does this mean they rape each other, and if so/not, how does one establish this?

Thank you"
This was your fucking question.
Dick

[Chop_Sugar_Cane_Dem]

If they are both drunk though, its nobodies fault.

But if it's nobodies fault, then there is no crime, thus no rape.

I don't think this is a valid answer.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

If they are both drunk though, its nobodies fault.
If two drunk strangers meet eachother at a bar and fuck eachother simply because they are both drunk, then it is nobodies fault.
If they were both drunk, and one raped the other, then it is rape.
"
Serious question: If those who are drunk are unable to consent, but both parties are drunk and they end up having sex...does this mean they rape each other, and if so/not, how does one establish this?

Thank you"
This was your fucking question.
Dick

Pro-tips from the consent workshop facilitator!

Drunk people can't consent, so if you initiate sex with somebody who's drunk you're taking a serious risk of crossing their boundaries. This applies regardless of whether or not you're drunk yourself.
As for whether or not it's rape/sexual assault, that's up to the person who experienced it to decide . . . but if you initiate sex with somebody who's drunk, you're making a choice to risk sexually assaulting or raping them - and that's fucking shitty.
For this reason, if you're really enthusiastic about drunk sex, it's important to talk about consent and boundaries beforehand. And if you can't talk about sex/boundaries when you're sober, you need to step back to ask "Why?" and "Should I be having sex if I can't even take the steps necessary to make sure I'm not going to assault someone?"

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Alcohol is the one of the most most (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071020113144.htm) common (http://www.womenshealth.gov/publications/our-publications/fact-sheet/date-rape-drugs.html#e) date (http://www.cwfefc.org/svfacts.html)-rape (http://www.udel.edu/studentwellness/sos/drugs.html) drugs.

Anyone who says otherwise is a moron. People don't think clearly or make rational decisions when they're drunk and this is a scientific fact. Saying that having sex with someone that's drunk isn't rape is total fucking bullshit, and makes a person look pretty god-damned suspicious IMO.

[Art Vandelay]

I kinda take issue with the idea that I can't consent to sex, simply cause I'm under the influence of alcohol.

[synthesis]

You must be joking, right?

Surely in the real world, some people are physically stronger than others and that does have an outcome on who is the rapist...a physically weaker person can rape, but if a physically weak person does not consent and the physically stronger person has their way, despite intoxication, I'd say it's still rape.

Otherwise, where do you draw the line? Alcoholic wife-beating stepfathers who say they didn't consent, so them forcing themselves on their wives was simply "nonconsensual sex that isn't rape"?

I don't quite follow.

I think this just calls for taking things on a case by case basis. Obviously two drunk people can fuck consensually, otherwise most of my friends would still be single and childless.

[greenforest]

I think Pakistan, the UAE (Dubai included) and Saudi Arabia all have the similar four witness clause regarding rape. I couldn't find anything from a quick search if this law is practiced in more countries.

[Skyhilist]

Pro-tips from the consent workshop facilitator!

Drunk people can't consent, so if you initiate sex with somebody who's drunk you're taking a serious risk of crossing their boundaries. This applies regardless of whether or not you're drunk yourself.

If consensual sex occurs while both people are drunk, but actually neither are consenting, then how do you determine who is the one being raped and who is the rapist?


As for whether or not it's rape/sexual assault, that's up to the person who experienced it to decide . . . but if you initiate sex with somebody who's drunk, you're making a choice to risk sexually assaulting or raping them - and that's fucking shitty.

What if both people are drunk and sort of initiate it simultaneously at the same time without really knowing what they're doing? Neither of them consent by your definition, so isn't that almost like a double rape?


For this reason, if you're really enthusiastic about drunk sex, it's important to talk about consent and boundaries beforehand. And if you can't talk about sex/boundaries when you're sober, you need to step back to ask "Why?" and "Should I be having sex if I can't even take the steps necessary to make sure I'm not going to assault someone?"

What if the two parties meet at say a party where both of them are already drunk, and then they have sex? Then who's the rapist?

What if the both agree not to have sex while drunk but then they do anyways with both parties sort of simultaneously getting into it and without any resistance? Then who is the rapist and who is the one being raped?