Describe Me!

[Whale]

I need help understanding where I fit in, in terms of the left. I see myself as a socialist, who doesn't support the capitalist mode of production. I have a basic understanding of Marxism, and I agree with most of it, however I do not support a DoTP or a vanguard party. So that rules out ML. I support horizontal power structures, or combined inclusive, direct democracy. I dislike anarchy, as I prefer some manner of governance, although not a representative form. I have a strong environmental streak, and I am antimilitary as well.

Where do I fit in?

[G4b3n]

You sound like a left communist. I would suggest looking into the works of Rosa Luxemburg, Paul Mattick, and others. Left communists generally view the Marxist-Leninist dotp as a dictatorship over the proletariat, they are not anarchists but do support more autonomous institutions and horizontal social structure. You may also enjoy the theoretical works of Lenin, but you will cringe at his actions.

Personally, I would suggest giving anarchism a second look. All government is a tyranny, Marxists realize this in one sense or another, they justify the continued existence of the state on the grounds that it will eventually "wither away".

[Ace High]

I actually have REALLY similar views to you, Whale. Except I am a bit more of an anarchist than anything else, so I'd agree with G4b3n in checking out some anarchist ideals. I oppose a dotp as well, but I believe in collectivism. Remember, just because you are against a central state doesn't mean you are against collectivism and Marxism. But hey, I could be wrong, if anarchism isn't your thing, then screw labels. You're still one of us regardless of sectarianism.

[Fourth Internationalist]

As much as I hate to tell you the bad news, it really seems like you're an anarchist even though you say you don't like it. You oppose the dotp, a vanguard party, and other Marxist things. But maybe you accept Marxian economics as many anarchists do.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

As I've said to other people.....


Just do what I did comrade: just say "fuck the tendencies!" and go with 'socialist'. Don't limit yourself with just one tendency. They all have something to offer.


"I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views." -Abraham Lincoln

[The Feral Underclass]

You cannot define your politics by simply saying some things you like and dislike and then asking people to try and make some characterisation.

You have to read things and understand what they mean in order to get a better idea of the things you believe in.

Perhaps you could say what things you want to learn about and people can suggest texts for you to read. This would be a more sensible approach.

[G4b3n]

As much as I hate to tell you the bad news, it really seems like you're an anarchist even though you say you don't like it. You oppose the dotp, a vanguard party, and other Marxist things. But maybe you accept Marxian economics as many anarchists do.

I heard that anarchist who use Marxist methods of analysis are the coolest.

[Fourth Internationalist]

I heard that anarchist who use Marxist methods of analysis are the coolest.

If they'd use Marxist analysis they'd become Marxists.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

You do not support the rule of the proletariat which in its turn would be the first step to the abolshing of class-rule.
I think you may have a bit of a mixed up view of what a DotP is, I must say that it is not the usual stalinist rule overthe proletariat, leaving the whole historical development of how that came to be aside right now because that would only be more confusing.

I would say you are not a left-communist, as earlier claimed, because left-communists, besides all their mistakes, do support the DotP.
Or not so much supporting it but like all marxists accept that "the class struggle necessarily leads to the dictatorship of the proletariat,that this dictatorship itself only constitutes the transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society" (Marx).

[G4b3n]

If they'd use Marxist analysis they'd become Marxists.

Do I need to explain to you why that assertion is a fallacy and lacks any sort of materialist justification?

[Fourth Internationalist]

Do I need to explain to you why that assertion is a fallacy and lacks any sort of materialist justification?

No because I have been clearly kidding with anarchism this entire thread, if you didn't notice.

Edit: Nevermind. Explain.

[G4b3n]

No because I have been clearly kidding with anarchism this entire thread, if you didn't notice.

I didn't notice in that particular post, perhaps it is because you have been rather critical of anarchist interpretation and application of Marxist philosophy in the past.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

To the OP - the answer to your question has to be worked out in practice. The best way to situate yourself is to start organizing according to your ideas, re-evaluate your ideas based on how they pan out, and repeat until you find yourself a) working with people who share your perspectives, at least sufficiently to b) achieve worthwhile strategic ends.
On "paper" I'm sure I sound like something other than an anarchist: in real life, I most often find that anarchists are the people invested in helping me put my ideas in to practice. Am I an anarchist? Who cares.

[darkblues]

db

[LOLseph Stalin]

Left communist I'd say.

[Yuppie Grinder]

You got to study and you got to act before you get cozy in some classification. Read a variety of communist literature, starting with the basics: Marx, Engels, Bakunin, Kropotkin, Luxemburg, Lenin. Read them all with ruthless criticism.

[Mass Grave Aesthetics]

I second the "study more, don´t worry about labels" suggestions made here.
I think the OP might also be interested in looking into Autonomism (http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=1108).

[Comrade Jacob]

I'd say you are a left communist or perhaps a libertarian socialist.

[cyu]

You are a Green :laugh:

Seriously though, just declare yourself a Whalist and be done with it. Ideologies are there to learn and extract from, they're not cookie cutters you use to slice off extra bits of your brain. Each human being has their own brain - their purpose is to allow people to think independently - if you give that up, you might as well give up having a brain.

[The Idler]

Anti-vanguard probably puts you closer to WSM/SPGB not left-communist.

[MarxSchmarx]

With all due respect to the other posters whove ided left communism, I don't really see it. Left communism can be incredibly dogmatic, and in my limited experience working with them it's almost devoid of any environmental analysis or, frankly, much in the way of serious thought about what contemporary leftists can do.

I don't mean this as a cheapshot against the Left Com groups, but rather to suggest that the OP doesn't seem particularly well served by being encouraged to pursue the left coms for a home. perhaps if the op can find a "luxembourgist" group, which usually in my experience tend to be a lot less dogmatic about a lot of things, I think this would be productive, but I don't really see much benefit someone like this would have by alientating IRL leftcoms.

[#FF0000]

it really hit me that nobody on this site knows what they're talking about, reading this thread.

[Brutus]

it really hit me that nobody on this site knows what they're talking about, reading this thread.

It took you this long?

[cyu]

You don't get anywhere in politics by being wishy-washy. Say it and say it with conviction, even if you're secretly wishy-washy ;)

[NeonTrotski]

Here's what I did.
Make a list of what you personally feel is most important to you. Mine was stopping racism, womens rights and fighting fascism. Go work with groups who seem to be effective in these fields and learn their theory. More important, learn the theory of that groups critics, understand it. If you really care you will find your calling. If you don't really care you can just pick the theory that sounds best to you and troll the opponents of that theory.
Revolution aint easy.

[The Idler]

Here's what I did.
Make a list of what you personally feel is most important to you. Mine was stopping racism, womens rights and fighting fascism. Go work with groups who seem to be effective in these fields and learn their theory. More important, learn the theory of that groups critics, understand it. If you really care you will find your calling. If you don't really care you can just pick the theory that sounds best to you and troll the opponents of that theory.
Revolution aint easy.
Stopping racism, womens rights and fighting fascism wouldn't necessarily put you anywhere near socialism.

Anyway just to add that any leftcom who knows their stuff may know more about defining leftcom here.