Is Democracy Failing?

[Rasta Sapian]

Democracy, what an amazing concept. Where the people of the nation elect who (what party) they would like to run their country. It sounds ideal, where the political regime would mirror the desires and needs of its people, ideas and reform put into action!

However it seems that America today, with all of its tax cuts, and cuts to social services, and education. While some are living the high life, with all of the middle class pleasures. That gap between rich and poor is rapidly widening!!

So where do you look for change? Government is the answer, but in america what choice do you have? where a moderate liberal tipically a democtat is the only possibility to move america to the left. So therefore is democracy failing America?

If we look north to Canada, where exists a capitalist democracy, with an economy similar to America. Canada has a parlimentary system borrowed from the crown in England. A tested and refined fundamental system!

In Canada we have a strong liberal government, with a healthy opposition on either side both left and right!
We pay much higher taxes (i don't notice that much because i don;t make much money)
for the weathy it is high, we do have many fat cats, drewling at out neibors to the south!

However we get something back for our taxes, a strong medicare system ( free heathcare), proviancially funded social programs and a good public education system, our universities and colleges are mostley covered by the government, making it affordable for every canadian with a will to become educated to get that higher learning; which in turn is mirrored, by our democracy.
This makes me proud to be a canadian! Comments?

[apathy maybe]

Single member electorates are bad for democracy. However Proportianal Representation, would let all those minorities get in to the various houses. All those left-wing 'un-Americans' (or nationality of your choice) would then have a voice. Do you really think that the people in power want to give up their power?

[Comrade Zeke]

Yes I support Canada because you have it better up their in the north. Sadely I live in the United States the most corrupt nation on the planet if the U.S.A would become better and more Soalistic like Canada it would be a better place to live. I support Canada,god bless Canada!!

I tip my hat to you,and as soon as I get to Canada I will come
Comrade,Zeke

[MysticArcher]

if it wasn't so cold Canada I would move there

anyway, it sounds way better than here in the U$

gods bless Canada!

[Osman Ghazi]

I am also Canadian. I agree entirely. The problem is that America is essentially a two-party system. The flaw with that is that a party can get votes in two ways 1) by having a platform that people agree with and 2) by the other party having a platform that people don't agree with. The problem is that a party doesn't have to be good to get votes as long as they are better than the other party. And so in America there is no real choice politically.

PS: its not that cold. In Toronto this year there was no snow at Christmas.

[Al Creed]

ALOT of the people I talk to are chompin'at the bit to live in Canada (mostly because of all the stories I tell them). They love the fact that the government here doesn't treat it's people like shit.

A friend of mine told me "Canada is everything that America Says It's Supposed to be"

Oh, btw, you want warm weather in Canada? One word...Vancouver:D

[MysticArcher]

yeah, choices here kinda suck

plus Americans in general seem more apathetic, which is why this situation is so bad, no one seems to care



I live in southern Claifornia, to me cold is like 60 degrees farenheit

[Jesus Christ]

I can't wait until I'm out of high school, gonna go to college in Canada and get my footing and settle in the True North
LOOK OUT CANADA! JESUS IS COMING!

[Pete]

Don't kid yourselves. Our system is just as bad as America's. We have a system created for two parties, but we have four major ones (Separtists, Liberals, Conservatives, NDP) and a pleforia of smaller ones (Family, Freedom, Green, Marijuana, ect). No apologetics or cross comparisions can fix this. Our system is just as bad as the American one, and perhaps worse if it makes people believe in reformism. Our system will not reform itself without a major push from the outside, without a threat to its power, and then it will only reform as much as it is needed. No, we are not better off politically, only socially, and not by much hiel Martin and McGuinty and Cambell and Charest, the big Liberals out there ready to drain us while promising to help.

[Le Libérer]

Dayum, you are making me want to move to Canada! At least for a few years, then off to Cuba for a few. My family thinks i'm nuts, of course. I just tell them , I'll either be back kissing the ground beneath me or you will never see me again. I'm sure it will be the latter.

[Al Creed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2004, 10:04 PM
Don't kid yourselves. Our system is just as bad as America's. We have a system created for two parties, but we have four major ones (Separtists, Liberals, Conservatives, NDP) and a pleforia of smaller ones (Family, Freedom, Green, Marijuana, ect). No apologetics or cross comparisions can fix this. Our system is just as bad as the American one, and perhaps worse if it makes people believe in reformism. Our system will not reform itself without a major push from the outside, without a threat to its power, and then it will only reform as much as it is needed. No, we are not better off politically, only socially, and not by much hiel Martin and McGuinty and Cambell and Charest, the big Liberals out there ready to drain us while promising to help.
This is why I cast my lot with the NDP.

Right now, The NDP seem to be the ONLY party that could lead Canada to responsable change.

My mom keeps ragging me about this, referencing former NDP leaders such as Bob Rae, to which I immediately reply with Brian Mulrouney and Mike Harris (She's Conservative, and it drives her insane I'm so far on the Left)

Our system may be just slightly improved from America, but at least there's SOME room for change.

[Commie Girl]

:D I am a very proud Canadian and have been involved in politics all my life. I am a staunch Liberal and agree that we do live in the best country on the planet. Our Parliamentary System is, by any stretch of the imagination, superior to the system the U$ uses. Yes, we have problems, like you would find in a great democracy, but in general we live in a society and culture that honours all people, and actually believes that ALL people are truly equal. Yes, people pay taxes here, with the burden being on the upper-middle-class and richest people, while the people who live in poverty, either the working poor or those who need tempoary assisatance pay only a relative portion of their income to taxes or pay none at all. Our society is not based on fear and violence, but hope and caring for all. Any person here can show up at ANY hospital and receive excellent care, regardless of race or income. No questions asked. And for some odd reason, people from the U$ seem to think that once you cross over the 49th parallel, it is "COLD". LOL....The southern most point of Canada, Point Pele in Ontario, is a southern as California. Maybe look at a map. Then decide to move here. We welcome all!!!!

[Misodoctakleidist]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 12 2004, 01:48 AM
I tip my hat to you,and as soon as I get to Canada I will come
wow, canada must really excite you!

[DeadMan]

I love calling myself Canadian. It's a great land of beauty. Going up north for 2 weeks brought back my love for the country and it's people. I ran out of money, and a family took me in for 3 days, feed me, keeped me warm and gave me 65$ for bus fare home; out of sheer generosity.

I don't care about the taxes ripping me a new one. I get free healthcare, free education and I get more freedoms then in the US. Yah, it's colder, but the snow is awesome in a youth and beautiful during X-Mas time. I don't know why. But I love the people here. Yah, about half are assholes and they deserve a shot in the face, but the other half are the nicest people you can meet. The multi-cultural level of our country is also a good reason to come. I love learning about different religions, countries and other things brought back by immigrants like culture haha. Lot's of good time in Canada...oh and the Montreal shit (M-39) is some of the best weed in the world :lol: .

DeadMan.

[Rasta Sapian]

Cuban cigars are legal in Canada! We have always maintained a good relationship with Fidel and the Cuban nation. :)

America is our big brother to the south, we have much in common, including this great landmass and all of its beauty! :)

I have spent quite a bit of time in the US, and have enjoyed my time! Many of my friends are Americans, We are all cousins, I have alot of respect for the American people. Hopefully there is still a chance for change in power for the political landscape in the near future. :)

p.s. Canada is quite cold in the winter time, so make sure you bring your skiis for your winter or spring getaway.

peace yall

[Pete]

Some points on geography


, Point Pele in Ontario, is a southern as California

P. Pele is not as warm as California. The warmest part of Canada is mostly likely Vancouver and Vancouver Island. There is more to why a place is warm or cold than their longitude (or is that latitude?). Currents and the such have great effects on the climate.

and now on to politics.


free education

I disagree. In fact, I could show you the amount I owe for University and the amount I can pay (including a pleforia of bursaries, scholarships, and my government loan) and I am sure you will see a deficiet on my part. Post secondary education is expensive as hell, and for people like me who are not wealthy working all through highschool is enough to get you through a year at most, and then you just tack on a bigger debt if you can afford to stay.

The loan system is also fucked. My one friend is making 2.5 thousand off her loans, were as I am lacking 2 thousand, and have to work as well as go to fulltime class to make up for it.

If only that was true eh? Free education! What a thought! If we really had that I'd think I was European or something.


more freedoms

Perhaps more nationalist rhetoric based on not being American :P (I am canadian, I know too)


ANY hospital

Two private hospitals in Ottawa if I remember correctly as an 'experiment.' Don't we all love the Eves-Harris mandate that just ended for that pack of bloody liars and oppurtunists who like to call themselves the Liberal Party?


Our Parliamentary System is, by any stretch of the imagination, superior to the system the U$ uses.

A simple look at the Ontario Election 2003 shows this a lie. We are just as bad, if not worse because we still have our two party system in a three party society. NDP gain votes, lose seats, the governments keeps them from offical party status. Our system does not give us proper representation, and lies just as much as the American ones. We lie better. Wonder where America got its some of its weapons? Or who freed up some American troops in Afganistan and other places? :rolleyes:

[DeadMan]

You should of applied for grants. A friendof mine got a 3000$ grant (enough to pay for my ENTIRE apprentaship education, so I'm gonna apply to it, it's a french speaking grant) because he was the only one that applied to it. If you bother to look, there is SHIT loads of grants that go unused every year.

DeadMan.

[Commie Girl]

[QUOTE=Pete,Jan 13 2004, 02:09 AM] Some points on geography

[QUOTE],P. Pele is not as warm as California. The warmest part of Canada is mostly likely Vancouver and Vancouver Island. There is more to why a place is warm or cold than their longitude (or is that latitude?). Currents and the such have great effects on the climate.

I believe I said that Point Pele was as far south as parts of California....not the warmest spot in Canada.

[QUOTE],Two private hospitals in Ottawa if I remember correctly as an 'experiment.' Don't we all love the Eves-Harris mandate that just ended for that pack of bloody liars and oppurtunists who like to call themselves the Liberal Party?

I stand corrected. You can go to any Hospital in Canada, no questions asked, except for 2 private hospitals in Ottawa.

[QUOTE],A simple look at the Ontario Election 2003 shows this a lie. We are just as bad, if not worse because we still have our two party system in a three party society. NDP gain votes, lose seats, the governments keeps them from offical party status. Our system does not give us proper representation, and lies just as much as the American ones. We lie better.

I was referring to Federal Politics....all in all, a 3 party system or 4 party system is much superior than a 2 party system.

[Pete]

I was referring to Federal Politics....all in all, a 3 party system or 4 party system is much superior than a 2 party system

I agree, its just that we have 3 or 4 parties in a 2 party system. Our form of elections is made for two parties, not 3 or 4.


You should of applied for grants. A friendof mine got a 3000$ grant (enough to pay for my ENTIRE apprentaship education, so I'm gonna apply to it, it's a french speaking grant) because he was the only one that applied to it. If you bother to look, there is SHIT loads of grants that go unused every year.

I'm sitting on a bunch of those, and have a folder of rejection letters, which go beside my failed literary work. I keep them as a matter of pride :P

I think one of the problems is that the aid given isn't always going where it is needed. Of course as I am experiencing this I am *****ing about it a lot, and in turn spreading dissent against the system MWHAHAH. Umm. yes.

[Felicia]

Originally posted by RavenFan84+Jan 12 2004, 12:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RavenFan84 @ Jan 12 2004, 12:18 AM)
[email protected] 11 2004, 10:04 PM
Don&#39;t kid yourselves. Our system is just as bad as America&#39;s. We have a system created for two parties, but we have four major ones (Separtists, Liberals, Conservatives, NDP) and a pleforia of smaller ones (Family, Freedom, Green, Marijuana, ect). No apologetics or cross comparisions can fix this. Our system is just as bad as the American one, and perhaps worse if it makes people believe in reformism. Our system will not reform itself without a major push from the outside, without a threat to its power, and then it will only reform as much as it is needed. No, we are not better off politically, only socially, and not by much hiel Martin and McGuinty and Cambell and Charest, the big Liberals out there ready to drain us while promising to help.
This is why I cast my lot with the NDP.

Right now, The NDP seem to be the ONLY party that could lead Canada to responsable change.

My mom keeps ragging me about this, referencing former NDP leaders such as Bob Rae, to which I immediately reply with Brian Mulrouney and Mike Harris (She&#39;s Conservative, and it drives her insane I&#39;m so far on the Left)

Our system may be just slightly improved from America, but at least there&#39;s SOME room for change. [/b]
I wouldn&#39;t really call the NDP "far on the left". As far as leftist parties in canada, you&#39;ve barely hit the tip of the iceberg. :P

the only thing I have left to say to some of the people who have commented in this thread is........ STOP PRAISING CANADA, Paul Martin&#39;s in and he&#39;s going to TRY and Americanize Canada with his rightest politics. There&#39;s no fucking hope. The US has already "let us" invest in Iraq, undoubtedly because Chretien is out.

bah, whatever. I&#39;m good for a pro-canada party anyday, but sometimes it&#39;s too much.

[Pete]

STOP PRAISING CANADA

Eloquintly put. I completely agree.

And yes. That is all I have to say, for the moment.

[Ernestocheguevara]

I couldn&#39;t name a single place in the world where there is TRUE democracy, here in Britain we get to put a cross on a bit of paper every four years and have to choose between a few crummie parties that are all representing the same damn thing, BIG BUISNESS&#33;&#33; I don&#39;t call that democracy&#33;&#33;&#33; :angry:

As far as I can tell the US have never had democracy what with the two party system.

[Felicia]

lol, well, if you&#39;re going to quote it all I have to say is this..... I&#39;m just glad I spelled it right, I&#39;m bad with the typing :P

[DeadMan]

Fuck Paul Martin&#33; That bastard pisses me off. Chretien was better, by alot. I still think Trudeau was the best for our country. Trudeau, being a French Canadian (aswell as myself), gave our &#39;Constitution&#39; that allow alot of freedoms and protect the weak and innocent. He gave this country it&#39;s 2 national languages, not alot of countries can say they have that (to my knowledge...). Bah, it&#39;s time to stop praising Canada, it&#39;s a shit hole right now...fucking winter.

DeadMan.

[Pete]

Today in the news I have read of two high profile defections, or &#39;defections to be&#39; if you will. The first is Shelia Copps is being &#39;wooed&#39; by the New Democrats. Surely the NDP supporters on here should see the oppurtunism at play. The other is former Canadian Alliance leadership candidateKieth Martin has offically left the Conserative Party and is sitting as an independant. He is said to be seeking the Liberal nomination in his riding.

All the uniting of hte right and the coronation of Paul Martin has done is drive our politics right. What day is it when a member of the Canadian Alliance seeks to join the Liberal Party? A defeated Liberal leadership hopeful the NDP less than a year after her defeat?

[Al Creed]

Sweet jesus, Shiela Copps in the NDP?

Well, at least we have a mouth piece now:P

[Pete]

She is thinking about it. It is at the globe and mail front page.

[Felicia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 11:15 PM
Fuck Paul Martin&#33; That bastard pisses me off. Chretien was better, by alot. I still think Trudeau was the best for our country. Trudeau, being a French Canadian (aswell as myself), gave our &#39;Constitution&#39; that allow alot of freedoms and protect the weak and innocent. He gave this country it&#39;s 2 national languages, not alot of countries can say they have that (to my knowledge...). Bah, it&#39;s time to stop praising Canada, it&#39;s a shit hole right now...fucking winter.

DeadMan.
actually, I&#39;m living here in Quebec, and I find that a lot of french canadian&#39;s don&#39;t like trudeau. Partially for the FLQ crisis and the war measures act (I&#39;m pretty sure that&#39;s what it was called, when the government could arrest anyone without charges), and something else to do with Quebec Farmers, they must have been going through a rough time back then. I&#39;m not too sure.

[Sabocat]

I believe I said that Point Pele was as far south as parts of California....not the warmest spot in Canada.


Washington perhaps....California impossible. As far west maybe, but certainly not south.

[Commie Girl]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 02:23 PM

I believe I said that Point Pele was as far south as parts of California....not the warmest spot in Canada.


Washington perhaps....California impossible. As far west maybe, but certainly not south.
okay....I got out the atlas....
Point Pelee is in southern Ontario...NOT in the west, but in the EAST...It is on Lake Erie, further south than Detroit, is a National Park, and is on the same latitude as Northern California.....


Please check&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; :rolleyes:



Nothing is Impossible

[Sabocat]

My bad. I thought from the post, it was one of those points near Vancouver.

It&#39;s verrrryyy close though :D Pretty interesting really. I didn&#39;t think any of Canada was that far South in Latitude.

Point Pelee = 41.58.00 N. Latitude

Northern most Cali. = 41.988 N. Latitude