Anti Catholicism?

[ROMVLVS AVRELIVS FVRIVS]

I've had to do research on this topic for school and when I typed in "anti-Catholicism", I got an endless amount of links (not all of them from Catholic websites). Why is it that no one ever addresses this? Shouldn't we try to end all forms of discrimination?

God bless,
ROMVLVS AVRELIVS FVRIVS

[Jimmie Higgins]

I've had to do research on this topic for school and when I typed in "anti-Catholicism", I got an endless amount of links (not all of them from Catholic websites). Why is it that no one ever addresses this? Shouldn't we try to end all forms of discrimination?

God bless,
ROMVLVS AVRELIVS FVRIVS

If you are speaking of this in the US, it did exist but was largly tied to past waves of historical immigration and nativist (anglo) sentiment. While there probably is some degree of this today, it's much less and the US catholic church has been accepted among other christian churches as has Judiasm to a large (but slightly lesser) degree. Anti-French, anti-Irish, and anti-Eastern and Mediterranian European anti-immigrant sentiment has become much less a factor in US life as the economy and immigration have changed and with that so has religious bigotry directed against these groups.

Latin American Catholic immigrants are not restricted based on religion but on cultural and ethinc animostiy, Islam has been distorted from religion to fit contemporary "culture-based" oppression as well. After WWII, religious-bigotry seems to have fallen out of favor because the population doesn't really live in enclaves like they once did and so people are seperated based on race and things for the most part.

In addition to this, while there still may be some bigotry (there sure is some anti-semitism still around, though not as much as in the recent past) the right-wing in the US catholic church has taken some plays from the New (prodestant) Right and have attempted to use victimhood as a way to advance their particular politics. In the same way as much of the rest of the US right, to obfuscate, confuse, or deflect charges of bigotry, they will claim that they are the actual victims if sex-ed is taught in schools or colleges hand out contraception or have services for LGBT people. And if people criticize right-wing catholic groups or the political aspects of the offical church, then they will claim that the political attack is religious intolerance.

[Sasha]

there is a difference between hating on peoples private sincerely held believes and opposing organized religion, and since you cant get it much more organized (and hierarchical, patriarchal, oppressive, exploitative, abusive etc etc) than the catholic church there is nothing wrong with anti-catholicism as long as people define (divine? ;)1) catholicism as the institution not the private believes of its practitioners.
the catholic church is nothing more than the roman empire re-branded, we oppose empire(s).

if you sincerely want to know why people despise the catholic church while still respecting peoples Christian believes i would encourage you to read the book "the good man Jezus and the scoundrel Christ" by Philip Pullman (a good review from a former bishops viewpoint: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/apr/04/scoundrel-christ-pullman-review)

if you just came here to moan:
zBUYCaSTYf4

[Fourth Internationalist]

^My god it's the pope song! <3 Tim Minchin :D

[Jimmie Higgins]

there is a difference between hating on peoples private sincerely held believes and opposing organized religion, and since you cant get it much more organized (and hierarchical, patriarchal, oppressive, exploitative, abusive etc etc) than the catholic church there is nothing wrong with anti-catholicism as long as people define (divine? ;)1) catholicism as the institution not the private believes of its practitioners.
the catholic church is nothing more than the roman empire re-branded, we oppose empire(s).

Similarly there is a difference between being against political Zionism and being against Jews. But often the people who were attacking Irish imigrants in the past were speaking of "Papal Empires" as the laguage for attacking working class immigrants - just as today some anti-semites try and hide their bigotry by using language of the anti-zionist movement.

So actually I do think there would be something odd about political anti-catholocism. Being against the role of the Catholic Church in promoting imperialist interests in Africa or neoliberal interests in Latin America is POLITICAL, but being specifically against the Catholic church for being a top-down hierarchy (I mean outside of being a prime example of such an institution) seems a little like having an Anti-Boy Scout stance since this is an organization which is hierarchical, discriminatory, and so on. It seems clearer to me to say we're against imperialism, sexism, homopobia, etc, which would definately include the church hierarchy and official positions, than to say something is an anti-catholic stance. I have nothing political against Limbo, for example... babies need a place to go too!

[Sasha]

Similarly there is a difference between being against political Zionism and being against Jews. But often the people who were attacking Irish imigrants in the past were speaking of "Papal Empires" as the laguage for attacking working class immigrants - just as today some anti-semites try and hide their bigotry by using language of the anti-zionist movement.

So actually I do think there would be something odd about political anti-catholocism. Being against the role of the Catholic Church in promoting imperialist interests in Africa or neoliberal interests in Latin America is POLITICAL, but being specifically against the Catholic church for being a top-down hierarchy (I mean outside of being a prime example of such an institution) seems a little like having an Anti-Boy Scout stance since this is an organization which is hierarchical, discriminatory, and so on. It seems clearer to me to say we're against imperialism, sexism, homopobia, etc, which would definately include the church hierarchy and official positions, than to say something is an anti-catholic stance. I have nothing political against Limbo, for example... babies need a place to go too!


oh absolutely, but while i know of many atheist organizations (which i find quite a pointless distraction/waste of time) i know of no organized "anti-catholicism" in this day and age outside maybe some extremist protestant fringe elements (contrary to "anti-zionism" btw)
as such the use of the term "anti-catholicism" (outside maybe the specific context of the Irish troubles) is mostly an appeal for false victimhood by catholics who moan about people opposing certain positions or practices of the church.
many catholics might think that their positions on abortion, homosexuality, feminism (, kiddie raping?) etc are intrinsic parts of their sacred believes but since Vatican city is the only catholic theocracy left we have every right to oppose attempts to let those believes influence public policy, that's not discrimination. as the bumper-sticker says "if you oppose abortion, dont have one".
catholics are just not getting discriminated in most parts of the world, if the OP thinks he is he should go and talk to an egyptian Kopt for a reality check.

[GerrardWinstanley]

There have been some ugly outbursts of anti-Catholicism in the UK. A recent example being an assault and attempted arson of Celtic football club manager Neil Lennon (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-13368945) in the UK (for those outside the UK, there is an age old rivalry between Glasgow Rangers and Glasgow Celtic that has been fuelled by sectarianism). Irish Catholics have been historically perscuted in Northern Ireland and although legal discrimination is a thing of the past, other forms persist. Loyalist politician, the Rev Iain Paisley and his son has a reputation for anti-Catholic hatemongering along with the protestant extremist Orange Order that terrorised the Catholic population.

Are some on 'the left' guilty of anti-Catholic bigotry? Yes, up to a point. The anti-Pope protests during Pope Benedict XVI's official visit to the UK had something of a reactionary flavour to them and were accompanied by chants such as "Pope go home!" with Terry Sanderson of the National Secular Society branding the Pope an "enemy of the state". Richard Dawkins attacked the Pope for criticising, in his words, "the Queen's own church". All in all, what could have been a legitimate protest by Catholics and non-Catholics alike against a rotten hierarchy was a hollow, offensive spectacle in the end.

Having said that of that, the fact is, the Holy See is an absolute monarchy, an independent state in itself and a thus totally accountable for its actions, especially its political activities, which are nearly always reactionary when they are not outright fascistic (I would make a distinction between Liberation Theology, which is a religious movement within the Catholic faith and something like the Renouveau Français, a far right Catholic political movement). The systemic child abuse and child rape is quite rightly an international scandal, the Church incites hatred and violence against the LGBT community, it is a well-funded, influential adversary of women's rights and a woman's right to choose, it was instrumental in the restoration of capitalism in the Warsaw Pact states, it automatically excommunicates anybody in the clergy doesn't agree with the Papacy on the finer points of sexual morality yet merely suspends Holocaust deniers such as Cardinal Williamson from their functions and it was the bane of anti-fascists in the Spanish civil war, Vichy France, etc. To call these criticisms anti-Catholic, when made by non-Catholics, would be stretching the definition. Alas, that is the mentality of idiotic commentators such as Brendan O'Neill, who among other things tried to defend known rapist and bully Cardinal O'Brien as a victim of persecution (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100204398/the-manner-in-which-cardinal-obrien-has-been-deposed-is-more-despicable-than-anything-hes-alleged-to-have-done/) among other things.