What the hell is a Jacobin

[Bostana]

I need to know. I've pondered this question for ages due to "Jam like a Jacobins" name.

And no.....I will not "Google" it

[Flying Purple People Eater]

http://blogs.isb.bj.edu.cn/celinec/files/2012/05/4th-diary-guillotine.jpg

ROLL THEM HEADS, BABY!


From Wikipedia

Formally known as the Society of the Friends of the Constitution, the Jacobin Club was the most famous and influential political club in the development of the French Revolution,[1] so-named because of the Dominican convent where they met, which had recently been located in the Rue St. Jacques (Latin: Jacobus), Paris. The club originated as the Club Benthorn, formed at Versailles from a group of Breton representatives attending the Estates General of 1789.[1] There were thousands of chapters throughout France, with a membership estimated at 420,000.[citation needed] After the fall of Robespierre the club was closed.[2]

The club later became notorious for its implementation[2] of the Reign of Terror. To this day, the terms Jacobin and Jacobinism are used as pejoratives for radical, left-wing revolutionary politics

So basically the most badass people in all of France.

[Bostana]

Amazing

[GiantMonkeyMan]

I always get this mixed up with Jacobitism, which I'm ashamed to say I thought your name was a reference to ironically. Not really an era of history I'm that interested in... either of them.


Jacobitism refers to the political movement in Great Britain and Ireland to restore the Roman Catholic Stuart King James II of England and his heirs to the thrones of England, Scotland and Ireland. The movement took its name from Jacobus, the Latinised form of James, and refers to a long series of Jacobite risings between 1688 and 1746. After James II was deposed in 1688 and replaced by his daughter Mary II, ruling jointly with her husband and first cousin (James's nephew) William III, the Stuarts lived in exile, occasionally attempting to regain the throne. The strongholds of Jacobitism were the Scottish Highlands, Ireland and Northern England. Some support also existed in Wales.

D:

[Brutus]

Robespierre...
What a brilliant man.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

They should've built a statue of each royal of Europe in that time out of the heads they had left over.


Guillotenes = Executioner, iron, wood, rope and basic constructive knowledge.

Head-Statues = A shit-ton of noble heads and some labour.

The Monarchs' reactions = priceless.

[hatzel]

And no.....I will not "Google" it

I suppose you could have "Binged" it instead...

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Googled, Binged and yahooed.

:laugh:

[Bostana]

I suppose you could have "Binged" it instead...

I prefer Bing over google. But I don't say "binged"

[Fourth Internationalist]

Robespierre...
What a brilliant man.

No. Leftists are too friendly to the Jacobins. I do not understand why...

[hatzel]

Googled, Binged and yahooed.

What, you don't like Ecosiaing or something? :(

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

No. Leftists are too friendly to the Jacobins. I do not understand why...

They represented one of the most radical section of the bourgeoisie during the great bourgeois revolution in France. Hebertists were to the left of them, but they lost influence and foundered fairly quickly.

[Jimmie Higgins]

No. Leftists are too friendly to the Jacobins. I do not understand why...i have a historical fascination with them, but I think that you are probably right that there is an a-historical interest in them that sometimes exists on the left. Part of this I think is due to their continued demonization in the mainstream as a way to distance the bourgeoise even from their own radical origins and to generally create an impressionistic demonization of any revolutionary change. I think the propaganda certainly should be countered strongly, but beyond that they should be seen in a historical context like we would the red republicans or goodwinian radicalism... In a way contributors to a general radicalist tradition (with lessons that can be applied to worker's revolution) but also definitely part of bourgeoise radicalism with all the contradictions that come with that.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Marx fucking loved the French revolution. Got high on that shit, did old Karl.

[Rafiq]

No. Leftists are too friendly to the Jacobins. I do not understand why...

Recognition of the Jacobin legacy seperates radicals from liberal ideologues.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

No. Leftists are too friendly to the Jacobins. I do not understand why...

Too friendly my ass. The Jacobins are the pre-soviet rolemodels for moderate leftists to slander revolutionary politics.

I sincerely doubt that those of the royalty who lost their heads during the reign of terror were not totally deserving of such a fate.

The executions pale in comparison to the deaths from mass repression and starvation that flooded France in order to sustain the upper classes' dreamland.

I mean, come on. The Jacobins were one of the first major radical leftist mass-movement organisations on earth, and fought for the rights of millions of French workers and peasants, and you slander them because they decapitated some noblefolk leeches who would've probably been killed anyway?

[Rafiq]

It's beyond me how mass atrocities can be saught to in the name of the crown but when a revolutionary dictatorship as much as spills an ounce of blood an eruption of moral outcry follows. Are we less legitimate in the eyes of the cowards? Nothing is less legitimate than hereditary rule. Disney runs amok glorifying monarchy through film yet when an intellectual so much as gives slight respect for the jacobins out comes mass condemnation. Royalty is it's own crime and that's the greatest lesson I took from Robespierre and co.

[Os Cangaceiros]

i have a historical fascination with them, but I think that you are probably right that there is an a-historical interest in them that sometimes exists on the left. Part of this I think is due to their continued demonization in the mainstream as a way to distance the bourgeoise even from their own radical origins and to generally create an impressionistic demonization of any revolutionary change. I think the propaganda certainly should be countered strongly, but beyond that they should be seen in a historical context like we would the red republicans or goodwinian radicalism... In a way contributors to a general radicalist tradition (with lessons that can be applied to worker's revolution) but also definitely part of bourgeoise radicalism with all the contradictions that come with that.

I pretty much agree with this.

My understanding is that the Jacobins were the more conservative faction of the French revolutionary tradition. But ultimately they had more ability to exercise policy-making decisions, so perhaps that should be taken into account as well when evaluating their legacy.

[Os Cangaceiros]

And to tell the truth I've never really gotten why the French Revolution is sometimes demonized here in the USA. The talking points of the FR are pretty much the exact same talking points of the American Revolution. The devout dedication to republican ideals was embraced by some much-celebrated figures in the AR like Thomas Jefferson, who enjoyed greeting foreign dignitaries in the slovenly manner of a sans-culotte. And although the terror in the USA was more muted than it was in France, there definitely was a sizable amount of it, enough of it that somewhere between a third and half of all American loyalists fled the USA in fear for their lives.

That doesn't get discussed that much, but I'm sure if you were to press people who fetishize the AR on it, they'd probably say, well that's what happens in a revolution unfortunately. But apparently that logic doesn't extend to the FR. Ideologically, though, you'd think all the shit about liberty, equality before the law, the republic etc, you'd think they'd eat that stuff up.

[bcbm]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Death_of_Marat_by_David.jpg

'liberty can only be achieved through violence.' - marat

[Flying Purple People Eater]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Death_of_Marat_by_David.jpg

'liberty can only be achieved through violence.' - marat

Dying in a bath would be so shit all the soap and crap would get in your cuts and sting like crazy.

[bcbm]

well he was always in a bath because it was the only way to soothe his horrible skin condition so