Racist Che allegations....

[RadioRaheem84]

Apparently, Che acted like a racist while in the Congo? According to a right wing friend who read some ridiculous article, emailed me about Che being a racist while on his mission in the Congo. He didn't cite any specific stuff except that Che said that he was furious with the Congolese rebels who couldn't fire a weapon or wanted to learn. And that the rebel leader he was supposed to fight with was a womanizer and boozehound. I am guessing that the right wing is interpreting these quotes from Che's diary as being racist, when they seem to, IMO, to be criticizing specific people. He was trying to connect these disparate comments he made toward some people he was frustrated with during the Congo campaign with stuff he said in the Motorcycle Diaries about black people, stuff he said when he was a young guy just now breaking out into the world.

Why has there been this new spin on Che being racist? Why would he fight for the liberation of indigenous people and Africans from colonial white rule if he was racist?

Questions still remain. Why did Cuba only release Che's diary about the Congo in 2002? Has anyone read it or read excerpts where Che might have come off as racist?

[VDS]

I hear a lot of this Che being racist stuff. Most of it (if not all) is complete trash.

In the case of the Congo, I haven't read the diaries in over 4 years, but if memory serves, he had issue with the way the Congolese put more faith into their superstitions, than time and effort into learning the art of combat.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

Was he a racist? No, not really.

But the guy was rather harsh on his men. I don't mean about the part where he shot traitors or deserters, I mean just in general he was kind of an asshole to the men serving under him.

[Red Commissar]

AFAIK Che was not too enamored with some of the rebel leaders in the Congo who he accused of being opportunists or not committed to the revolution. I believe he was also frustrated with the state of revolutionaries in Congo- divided, pursuing conflicting objectives, the difficulty of the Cuban mission to connect meaningfully to the local population, and having to form a guerrilla network in a span of months that would have taken years otherwise.

I don't think Cuba's releasing the diaries have any insidious purpose, it's just that it was rather uneventful as far as Che as a direct combatant is concerned compared to his other expeditions. Plus, the Congo was tragedy that was more of a bummer (to put it lightly) than anything - even some of Che's failures like in Bolivia - that could be turned inspiring. On a more grounded level maybe Cuba didn't want to rock the boat with the Kabila government of post-Mobutu Congo, as it appears Che was very critical of him in his accounts (Kabila Sr. was assassinated in 2001).

[Bostana]

He desegregated Cuban schools. He denounced the racism of the KKK. Condemned South Africa's aparthied, etc., etc. That's not something a racist tends to do

[RadioRaheem84]

I totally forgot about his march with Malcolm X for civil rights!

How the hell can that massive thing be overlooked? He stood at the UN and denounced Apartheid and Jim Crow.

[CatsAttack]

Let's put it this way. If Che wrote the things he wrote in his diary on this forum, he'd be instantly banned and no body would have a problem with it.

[RadioRaheem84]

Let's put it this way. If Che wrote the things he wrote in his diary on this forum, he'd be instantly banned and no body would have a problem with it.

The Motorcycle Diaries? He wasn't even a socialist then.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Why would he head over to the Congo and do what he did if he hated blacks?

[rebelsdarklaughter]

I would be more concerned about some of the things he said about nuking entire cities.

“If the rockets had remained, we would have used them all and directed them against the very heart of the United States, including New York, in our defense against aggression”

[Brutus]

Please put the full quote:

"If the missiles had remained, we would have used them against the very heart of America including New York. We must never establish peaceful coexistence. In this struggle to the death between two systems we must gain the ultimate victory. We must walk the path of liberation even if it costs millions of atomic victims."

It is beautifully written, don't you think?

[ind_com]

He was so racist to black people that he went to help with their revolution.

[RadioRaheem84]

Please put the full quote:


It is beautifully written, don't you think?

:crying: Why, Che? Why?

[Comrade #138672]

According to right-wing nuts, every socialist is a racist. Including Marx, Engels, Trotsky, etc.

[Brutus]

:crying: Why, Che? Why?

Because "We must walk the path of liberation even if it costs millions of atomic victims."

[Fred]

Let's put it this way. If Che wrote the things he wrote in his diary on this forum, he'd be instantly banned and no body would have a problem with it.

Yes. But this website is moderated by a number of "politically correct" petite bourgeois moralists. They take a puritanical view toward social attitudes they disapprove of. Write approvingly of the Moscow Trials and that's no problem. Make a comment that might, by some strange stretch of the imagination be deemed sexist or racist and you get banned. Che may have said something untoward in his lifetime -- he remains a revolutionary martyr. I disagree with his Stalinist politics, but the man was also a hero.

[Geiseric]

Because "We must walk the path of liberation even if it costs millions of atomic victims."

I think he was talking about Cuba or the fSU being bombed by the US

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

I think it's complicated. I confess to have a limited understanding of Latin American race politics (let alone their various country-class-etc. specificities!), but I'm relatively sure that Che probably had both a) internalized some racist bullshit and a political commitment to antiracism.

The desire to avoid criticizing the former (because "Che was a hero!") is counterproductive in terms of developing the latter.

So was Che racist? Probably! Good luck finding someone who isn't! Should his racist mistakes be criticized? Of course!
Is this grounds to dismiss Che entirely? Does this call the sincerity of his antiracist work into question? No! Of course not!

Complaining about "petite bourgeois political correctness" is totally bogus in this case. When "political correctness" serves to cover-up or avoid confronting contradictions in the name of politeness it should be confronted. Calling valid criticism "political correctness" is, in fact, that same impulse - trying to "clean up" a narrative, erase serious errors, etc. See Mao in Combat Liberalism (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-2/mswv2_03.htm).

[CatsAttack]

I think it's complicated. I confess to have a limited understanding of Latin American race politics (let alone their various country-class-etc. specificities!), but I'm relatively sure that Che probably had both a) internalized some racist bullshit and a political commitment to antiracism.

The desire to avoid criticizing the former (because "Che was a hero!") is counterproductive in terms of developing the latter.

So was Che racist? Probably! Good luck finding someone who isn't! Should his racist mistakes be criticized? Of course!
Is this grounds to dismiss Che entirely? Does this call the sincerity of his antiracist work into question? No! Of course not!

Complaining about "petite bourgeois political correctness" is totally bogus in this case. When "political correctness" serves to cover-up or avoid confronting contradictions in the name of politeness it should be confronted. Calling valid criticism "political correctness" is, in fact, that same impulse - trying to "clean up" a narrative, erase serious errors, etc. See Mao in .

I'm not a racist. Lenin wasn't a racist. No real Marxist is a racist.

Che was a racist. Mao was a racist. But they weren't Marxists (and neither are you for that matter if you think all people are inherently racist) so who cares.

[RadioRaheem84]

Because "We must walk the path of liberation even if it costs millions of atomic victims."

Was he saying that Cuba must be on the offensive and use nukes to bomb millions in the name of liberation?

Or that they must keep going the course of liberation even if it costs Cuba millions of lives because the US will nuke them?

[CatsAttack]

Was he saying that Cuba must be on the offensive and use nukes to bomb millions in the name of liberation?

Or that they must keep going the course of liberation even if it costs Cuba millions of lives because the US will nuke them?

Castro has admitted that he told Khrushchev to bomb the US and he didn't care if Cuba was obliterated in response. He was 33 years old and quite a fool. Khrushchev saw he had a novice on his hands and worked quickly to reach a deal to remove the weapons.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

I'm not a racist. Lenin wasn't a racist. No real Marxist is a racist.

Che was a racist. Mao was a racist. But they weren't Marxists (and neither are you for that matter if you think all people are inherently racist) so who cares.

1. "No true Scotsman" - google it.

2. I don't think "people" are "inherently" racist - that's a gross simplification. I think that people raised within a white supremacist capitalist world order, especially those who objectively benefit from that order (ie anyone who enjoys access to cheap food and consumer goods due to imperialism, who lives on stolen land, etc.), tend to have internalized significant amounts of racist ideology. This doesn't prevent them from being antiracists; it does mean they have to interrogate their own behaviour and interrogate their ideological positions constantly. Starting from "I'm not racist!" is a really bad way to go about that.

[rebelsdarklaughter]

Was he saying that Cuba must be on the offensive and use nukes to bomb millions in the name of liberation?

Or that they must keep going the course of liberation even if it costs Cuba millions of lives because the US will nuke them?

"If the rockets had remained, we would have used them all and directed them against the very heart of the United States..."

He clearly advocated nuking the US.

[RadioRaheem84]

It's very hard for people to be completely devoid of racist, sexist or homophobic notions when our world promotes all three constantly. I think we have a better shot since we've the mechanism behind it and the economic dynamics of racism underneath the surface.

Race and class are so closely linked that sometimes I think that people conflate the two because a lot of people are more angry at what they perceive to be sloven or uneducated. Remarkably these same people become less a victim of racism once they adopt middle class values and join the ranks of the upper crust.

That's why I think there are actually less racists than we think and more people not seeing the economic and social conditions that afflict people of color in a cappie society.

[AnSyn Blackflag]

I am not 100% positive on many details regarding Che. But I figure considering the time and his obviously hardened nature, that he may have allot of racial prejudices. That being said his revolutionary views, anti capitalism, and never ending struggle for liberation of all types of people clearly took precedent over any personal annoyances he had with any demographic. So it becomes a question of how you consider racism. Let me elaborate in case this is taken out of context.
You may believe many stereotypes about black people in the united states to either be universally or genrally true. This would be seen as racist by many (and by sheer defintion it is). But if your belief is that regardless of those stereotypes, these people deserve the same liberties and freedoms that all humanity should, than it is not quite the same is it?

[AnSyn Blackflag]

Was he a racist? No, not really.

But the guy was rather harsh on his men. I don't mean about the part where he shot traitors or deserters, I mean just in general he was kind of an asshole to the men serving under him.

Every leader is different and sometimes a hard ass is very necessary. This gets confused allot by people who think you have to be pleasant to be great. Not saying you do just saying:grin:

[RadioRaheem84]

I am not 100% positive on many details regarding Che. But I figure considering the time and his obviously hardened nature, that he may have allot of racial prejudices. That being said his revolutionary views, anti capitalism, and never ending struggle for liberation of all types of people clearly took precedent over any personal annoyances he had with any demographic. So it becomes a question of how you consider racism. Let me elaborate in case this is taken out of context.
You may believe many stereotypes about black people in the united states to either be universally or genrally true. This would be seen as racist by many (and by sheer defintion it is). But if your belief is that regardless of those stereotypes, these people deserve the same liberties and freedoms that all humanity should, than it is not quite the same is it?

I think is the case for a lot of Americans who do believe in civil liberties. Liberal or libertarian.

[Sudsy]

Che gets a lot of respect and respect so in contrast he is bound to get criticism from the right. Also, its funny that the right-wing are accusing a revolutionary leftist of racism. Even Marx was accused of racism because there was a mistranslation of his reference to small minorities as "racial trash" while a better translation is "residual nations". Che risked his life fighting for a black country, so if he's simultaneously racist, I guess its not as ridiculous to say Hitler loved Jews and supported the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.

[Bostana]

"If the rockets had remained, we would have used them all and directed them against the very heart of the United States..."

Do you mind if i request reference to this quote? Because I looked it up and couldn't find anything.


He clearly advocated nuking the US.

As the U.S. advocated bombing the Soviet Union and all of Eastern Europe. Just as the USSR advocated bombing the U.S. and all of Western Europe.

The point is both sides were willing to kill millions for their own selfish reasons.

[RadioRaheem84]

Yes I too would like a link for the bombing quote che said.

[rebelsdarklaughter]

I can't post links yet, but the text I got this from was "Saint Che: The Truth Behind the Legend of the Heroic Guerilla, Ernesto Che Guevara". It is from an interview with the Daily Worker.

[Bostana]

I can't post links yet, but the text I got this from was "Saint Che: The Truth Behind the Legend of the Heroic Guerilla, Ernesto Che Guevara". It is from an interview with the Daily Worker.

You mean this? http://libcom.org/library/saint-che-truth-behind-legend-heroic-guerilla-ernesto-che-guevara


Yeah I couldn't find your quote in there.