Another coup is coming in Egypt:

[B5C]

Egypt army gives Mursi 48 hours to compromise in crisis



CAIRO (Reuters) - Egypt's powerful armed forces issued a virtual ultimatum to Islamist President Mohamed Mursi on Monday, calling on the nation's feuding politicians to agree on an inclusive roadmap for the country's future within 48 hours.
A dramatic military statement broadcast on state television declared the nation was in danger after millions of Egyptians took to the streets on Sunday to demand that Mursi quit and the headquarters of the ruling Muslim Brotherhood were ransacked.
"If the demands of the people are not realised within the defined period, it will be incumbent upon (the armed forces)... to announce a road map for the future," said the statement by chief-of-staff General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi. It was followed by patriotic music.
The people had expressed their will with unprecedented clarity in the mass demonstrations and wasting more time would only increase the danger of division and violence, he said.
The army said it would oversee the implementation of the roadmap it sought "with the participation of all factions and national parties, including young people", but it would not get directly involved in politics or government.
Anti-Mursi demonstrators outside the presidential palace cheered the army statement, and the main opposition National Salvation Front, which has demanded a national unity government for months, applauded the military's move.
http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-locked-standoff-millions-rally-against-mursi-064717825.html



In response: Mursi gives the middle finger to the Egyptian military:





Egypt's presidency defies threat of military coup

Mohamed Morsi aide says army will not be able to act on 48-hour ultimatum over political unrest without US approval



Egypt (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/egypt)'s presidency has indicated that it will not give in to the threat of a military coup, just hours after the Egyptian army gave Mohamed Morsi (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/mohamed-morsi) 48 hours to placate the millions who have taken to the streets calling for his departure.
The head of Egypt's armed forces, General Abdel Fattah Sisi, threatened direct military involvement in the political process "if the demands of the people are not realised", in a statement implying that Morsi should either step down or at least call early elections.
The presidency indicated that it viewed the statement as a coup d'etat, and implied that Morsi was safe as long as his administration still had US support.
"Obviously we feel this is a military coup," a presidential aide said. "But the conviction within the presidency is that [the coup] won't be able to move forward without American approval."
The aide's comments implied that the presidency was hopeful of continued American support. They also suggested the presidency was banking on the likelihood that the military would not risk upsetting America, which provides it with significant funding. The US ambassador to Egypt has spent recent days trying to persuade opposition figures to engage in dialogue with Morsi instead of supporting protests.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/01/egypts-presidency-defies-threat-military-coup



The cycle continues in the battle between military and government.

[Paul Pott]

The call for the military to step in to depose Morsi - basically for the reinstatement of SCAF rule - was an opportunist move on the part of bourgeois opposition politicians and will ultimately lead to a general rebellion against all authority in Egypt if it doesn't strangle the voices on the streets (not likely). This time the junta will discredit the liberals and open the possibility of a revolt specifically with the goal of socialism, with a basis not in the middle classes at all but in the workers and students, since the more well off will be the ones to give up and demand law and order.

Their slogans should be down with the clerics, down with the feloul army and police.

Keep your eyes on Egypt, comrades.

[AnSyn Blackflag]

The last coup took place while I was still in the U.S. Military. It was a pretty interesting time because a lot of us thought we were going to end up going. Don't ask me why.
This cycle will go on and on as long each coup keeps reestablishing a new regime with the same structure as the one they deposed.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Im curious how this will feed into Turkey and Brazil.

What about the Port Said workers?

[Zostrianos]

Hopefully the next government will be truly secular. Salafi islamists have become more active and influential since the Muslim brotherhood took power, and if they get their way theocracy is only a matter of time.

[Comrade Samuel]

I guess we should have seen this coming; after all Egypt was (and continues to be) the first truly modern revolution that utilizes social media/the internet as a means of bringing down it's theocratic authoritarian leaders. Still I fear that a military coup will result in martial law or worse. I get that there is popular demand to oust the current regime among the people but how many are ready for even more civil unrest? How many are willing to sit idly by as the Muslim brotherhood attempts to fill it's own power vacuum?

Regardless of what the future holds I think its safe to say 'First went Mubarak, now goes Morsi.'

[ckaihatsu]

I guess we should have seen this coming; after all Egypt was (and continues to be) the first truly modern revolution that utilizes social media/the internet as a means of bringing down it's theocratic authoritarian leaders.


Twitter Helped To Distort Egyptian Protests

August 12, 2011 4:00 AM

An assistant professor at UCLA recently returned from Egypt, where he researched the effect of social media on the movement to bring down former President Hosni Mubarak. Ramesh Srinivasan tells Steve Inskeep the notion that the revolution was driven by social media is vastly overstated.

http://www.npr.org/2011/08/12/139570720/twitter-created-echo-chamber-during-egyptian-protests





Still I fear that a military coup will result in martial law or worse. I get that there is popular demand to oust the current regime among the people but how many are ready for even more civil unrest? How many are willing to sit idly by as the Muslim brotherhood attempts to fill it's own power vacuum?

Regardless of what the future holds I think its safe to say 'First went Mubarak, now goes Morsi.'

[Geiseric]

I guess we should have seen this coming; after all Egypt was (and continues to be) the first truly modern revolution that utilizes social media/the internet as a means of bringing down it's theocratic authoritarian leaders. Still I fear that a military coup will result in martial law or worse. I get that there is popular demand to oust the current regime among the people but how many are ready for even more civil unrest? How many are willing to sit idly by as the Muslim brotherhood attempts to fill it's own power vacuum?

Regardless of what the future holds I think its safe to say 'First went Mubarak, now goes Morsi.'

It actually started with unions you know, not facebook. Of course people from the U.S. would love to believe otherwise.

[cyu]

Take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero then take a look at the line of predecessors and successors - which was the first predecessor and successor to not meet a violent death?

It's pretty much only idiots that manage to convince themselves that they can have any kind of stability without giving people what they want. Democracy is merely a formalization of the age old tradition of lawless revolution ;)

[Sasha]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1044766_547357595320601_234792322_n.jpg

"Military has seized control of State Tv Building in ‎#Cairo (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/cairo), ‎#Egypt (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/egypt)."

source = facebook, no mainstream media verification yet...

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

source = facebook, no mainstream media verification yet...

Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant reports about tanks at the tv-station:

http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2668/Buitenland/article/detail/3469492/2013/07/03/Live-Legervoertuigen-bij-gebouw-staatstelevisie.dhtml

[Sasha]

"UPDATE: The troops that have taken over State TV in Egypt are NOT the Army but Republican Guards, who are nominally under the direct orders of the President. It seems that a cat-and-mouse game is underway over strategic positions and buildings in Cairo"

source again facebook..

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

"UPDATE: The troops that have taken over State TV in Egypt are NOT the Army but Republican Guards, who are nominally under the direct orders of the President. It seems that a cat-and-mouse game is underway over strategic positions and buildings in Cairo"

source again facebook..

Shit, it's gonna be a warzone there.

[Sasha]

Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant reports about tanks at the tv-station:

http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2668/Buitenland/article/detail/3469492/2013/07/03/Live-Legervoertuigen-bij-gebouw-staatstelevisie.dhtml


some translated updates from that ^ liveblog;

while Morsi broke of all talks with the army "opposition leader" el-baradei had a meeting with the army leadership, apperently he was joined by the leader of the Koptic church and the sheik of the islamic university.

the ministry of domestic affairs that controls the police has stated that it "will work with the army to ensure the peace", this is seen as an abandonment by the cops of morsi.

even Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya, the radical salafists are calling on Morsi to write out new elections...

lots of ministers resigned over the last days.

seems Morsi is getting really isolated.

[Paul Pott]

Islamists are vowing to take up arms.

[Mather]

Is the opposition united in calling for the military to replace Morsi? Aren't there any opposition groups who reject both MB rule and military rule?

[Paul Pott]

The US has threatened consequences for future military aid if the military moves against Morsi.

They have demanded that Morsi call early elections. Clearly they want to preserve the status quo as much as possible.

[Paul Pott]

Is the opposition united in calling for the military to replace Morsi? Aren't there any opposition groups who reject both MB rule and military rule?

Everyone but the feloul rejects a new junta, but most opposition groups support the army's promise to depose the Muslim Brotherhood, dissolve the government, and install a technocratic government.

[Paul Pott]

The deadline is passed but Morsi is still president.

Protesters, if you want these theocrats out, you're gonna have to do it yourselves and not rely on Uncle Sam's guard dogs.

[Paul Pott]

Islamists are ready for a brawl. They probably have the means to arm themselves if it comes to that. Will Jihadis in Syria come to Egypt?

http://www.trbimg.com/img-51d40ffa/turbine/la-fg-wn-egypt-showdown-morsi-military-2013070-001/600

[dirtysquatter]

According to Reuters: "Egypt president's national security adviser says military coup under way."

[KurtFF8]

According to ABC Morsi is now under house arrest

[Mather]

Everyone but the feloul rejects a new junta, but most opposition groups support the army's promise to depose the Muslim Brotherhood, dissolve the government, and install a technocratic government.

Too bad. This time round the military made it clear that they would not be running a new military junta as such but a technocratic civilian government under military 'supervision'. This still means the military will be calling all the shots, even if it is being done behind a civilian facade. The military are no friends of the revolution and their interventions in Egyptian politics are designed to keep the more radical forces of the revolution in check. During their time in power under SCAF they used every track in the book to divide and oppress the opposition, co-opting the liberals and reformists while using heavy handed tactics against the more radical and working class forces within the opposition.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Wow, this is really a classic revolutionary impasse. The rulers can't rule in the way they need to according to their logic because the population won't let them... But there isn't an independent working class force to create an alternative. Amazing, historic, and scary. 2011 continues... I predict a surprise mini-upsurge in u.s. labor struggles with an occupy-like twist in the u.s. this fall (/wishful speculation)

[bcbm]

http://blogs.aljazeera.com/sites/default/files/styles/ns-horizontal-xlarge/public/crowds-presdiential-long680.jpg

crowd outside the presidential palace, wow

http://blogs.aljazeera.com/sites/default/files/styles/ns-horizontal-xlarge/public/soliders%20block%20bridge.jpg

soldiers blocking bridge to cairo university

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOQ33_0CAAA5kZa.jpg

and outside the university itself

[bcbm]

Gehad ElHaddad, a spokesperson for the Muslim Brotherhood and senior adviser to Freedom & Justice Party, has told Al Jazeera that 'a full military coup is underway.'

Haddad said 'tanks are on the move around the outskirts of Cairo' and that 'some high ranking members of the Brotherhood have been arrested.'

Haddad told Al Jazeera and that communication with President Morsi has been cut off so he cannot confirm or deny if he was moved from the Republican Guard HQ.
from al jazaeera

[billydan]

i'm supporting the military.Fuck the Muslim brotherhood.

[Taters]

i'm supporting the military.Fuck the Muslim brotherhood.

So the military calling the shots is alright with you?

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

maybe we should keep this thread as a news line rather than yet another ideological flame war..

[Broviet Union]

There isn't even the lesser evil option here as there is in Syria. At least Assad is opposed, on some level, to neoliberalism.

[billydan]

So the military calling the shots is alright with you?

what i mean is the people fighting against Morsi

[bcbm]

live coverage http://www.aljazeera.com/watch_now/

[Le Socialiste]

Is the opposition united in calling for the military to replace Morsi? Aren't there any opposition groups who reject both MB rule and military rule?

The Revolutionary Socialists seem to fit the above 'criteria.' They're small, but they're one of the few militant organizations that've been opposing both parties to the conflict. Here's an article (http://socialistworker.org/2013/06/27/revolution-and-counterrevolution-in-egypt) one of its leading members wrote just a few days before the rebellion:


The revolution and the counterrevolution

June 27, 2013

June 30 may be remembered as another turning point for the Egyptian Revolution. Opponents of President Mohamed Morsi of the Muslim Brotherhood will take to the streets on the one-year anniversary of Morsi's first day in office to call on him to resign.

The June 30 mobilizations are the culmination of the "Tamarod" (Rebellion) petition campaign. Organizers say they have gathered more than 15 million signatures in support of a call for Morsi to resign--more than the number of votes Morsi received in the presidential election last year. Both sides expect that the June 30 demonstrations will be as big as any since the 2011 revolution that overthrew dictator Hosni Mubarak. Many activists fear that Morsi and the Brotherhood will try to provoke violence.

Sameh Naguib, a leading member of the Revolutionary Socialists in Egypt, wrote this article analyzing the political situation in Egypt in the wake of the Tamarod campaign, as the lead contribution for Socialist Notes, the re-launched political journal of the RS.

-------------------------------------

The Crisis of Brotherhood Rule

The Muslim Brotherhood came to power in a historical circumstance whose meaning it did not understand. For the Brotherhood imagined that the democracy of the ballot box was the goal for which the revolution had been undertaken. They did not understand the fundamental social and democratic content of this huge historical revolution.

Their compass was not oriented toward the revolutionary masses, but toward those with vested interests: Egypt's businessmen, the U.S. administration, the Gulf monarchies. They had been able to convince these groups that they were able to protect the same interests served by Mubarak's regime, while simultaneously satisfying the Egyptian people with a combination of false promises and empty religious slogans.

Consequently, they sought to empty the revolution of its content to guarantee the interests of those terrified by the revolution. But they quickly discovered that people who had revolted by the millions, removing the man at the pinnacle of power, would not accept this cooptation. Their false promises did nothing but increase popular anger and awareness of the Brotherhood's opportunism and hostility toward the revolution.

Two choices had laid before the Brotherhood, both of them bitter. The first was to arrive at some deal with the remnants of the old regime and the quasi-oppositionists among the liberals. The other was a close alliance with the Salafi groups, including those with residual roots in the Said [Upper Egypt] and among the slums of the cities.

From the beginning, the Brotherhood had already made big strides toward the first option, with unparalleled concessions to the military and security institutions, which were the heart of the former regime. But these institutions accepted the bargains on the basis of a faulty assessment of the Brotherhood's capability to coopt the people and drain revolutionary anger by manipulating the elections.

However, when they discovered the Brotherhood's incompetence, the rapid transformation of the national consciousness against the Brotherhood, the rapid collapse of the economy through a series of calamitous errors by the Brotherhood leadership, they began to rethink their bargain. This became apparent in the oscillations, contradictions and tension in the statements of the army leadership.

Thus, the alliance of the old regime remnants with the liberal organizations opposing the Brotherhood. The state of siege that the Brotherhood faces on a daily basis, has led to efforts at rapprochement with the Salafi groups and the use of escalating sectarian language, whether towards the Copts or the Shia, or in declaring all those who oppose them kafirs [apostates to Islam].

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The Economic Crisis

Since the rise of Mohamed Morsi and the Brotherhood to power, they have implemented the same economic program as Gamal Mubarak and the policy committee prior to the revolution. It is a neoliberal program centered around market liberalization and an increasing assimilation into the global capitalist economy. These are the same policies that played a pivotal role in igniting the Egyptian revolution.

For these policies are not only violent attacks on the interests and the standard of living of the poor, to the advantage of the Muslim Brotherhood, feloul billionaires and military leaders. They represent the same demands from global financial institutions and the Gulf monarchies that Egypt accept implementation of policies further impoverishing the poor and enriching the wealthy.

It appears that Morsi, Shatir and the Brotherhood are oblivious to three facts that no rational person could fail to notice.

The first is that the revolution in the country has arisen from the hopes and expectations of millions of poor, workers and farmers for true social justice, to redistribute the wealth from big business to the people, and not the reverse.

The second fact is that the capitalist world has been suffering from the violence of its crises since the 1930s because of the same brutal capitalist policies, which are the idol that the Brotherhood leadership serves as if it were a Koranic text.

The third fact is that global capitalism, whether from the Gulf or from the West, will not invest in a morass like the Egyptian economy. It will not venture into a country whose very existence is still being shaken by the revolution, a revolution that is rocking the entire world, as we have seen recently in Turkey and Greece.

Global capitalism, under the leadership of American imperialism and its allies in the Gulf states, wants its revenge on the Egyptian people because of their great revolution, which has inspired and continues to inspire the poor of the world. It is this revolution that has established the 21st century as the century of the gravediggers of despotism and capitalist plundering. Their agents in this revenge are the Muslim Brotherhood and its failed representative Mohamed Morsi.

The series of conciliations, including the release of old regime figureheads from prison, stretches throughout the disaster of the Brotherhood administration. On the one hand, they have implemented the terms of the hostile Saudi-Qatari axis, which has played a prominent role in supporting the counterrevolution in Egypt by increasing debts. On the other hand, they need the assistance of the old regime's big men to cope with the crisis.

These policies have led the Egyptian economy to enter the most violent of its crises in decades. The budget deficit has reached 14 percent of gross domestic product, and the overall debt burden is 80 percent of the GDP. The Central Bank's foreign exchange reserves have collapsed from $32 billion to $13 billion. And nearly half of this remaining reserve consists of gold bullion not quickly liquidated.

The collapse of the Egyptian pound continues against the dollar, having decreased its value by 12 percent in the first half of this year. All of this has led to the rapid flight of both foreign and local capital, and the inability of the state to fulfill its national commitments. It has led to severe shortages in basic commodities, which are imported, of course, in foreign currencies--among them, vital goods such as various types of fuel and wheat. This constitutes a serious danger not only to workers, but to the capitalist class and its state.

These barbarous attacks on the living standards of the poor, which have begun in earnest, have ignited an unprecedented labor and protest movement that proposes confiscation of the wealth of the businessmen; nationalization of the big corporations, both foreign and domestic; the refusal to pay the interest and principal on foreign loans. These cannot but lead to the overthrow of not only Morsi and his Brotherhood, but the entirety of the capitalist state.

It is hard to imagine the degree to which the Egyptian state and the Brotherhood are isolated from reality. For amid all these crushing crises, the share of the military in the state budget has risen for the year 2013-14 to reach 31 billion Egyptian pounds--3.4 billion pounds more than the budget the year before. This is above and beyond American military aid, which is $1.4 billion, or almost 15 billion Egyptian pounds.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The Labor Movement

Despite a months-long decline in political activity before the earthquake caused by the Tamarod (Rebellion) campaign and the preparations for June 30 demonstrations, the labor movement has continued to strike, occupy and demonstrate at rates that were the highest globally during the period from March to May, and still remain so. The current activity has given the labor movement new motivation of the greatest importance and possibility.

The labor movement has faced a number of challenges and paid a great price in its many battles, which have been of a defensive rather than offensive character. The first of these challenges was the violent capitalist attack on the movement, using the sticks of the thugs to break up occupations, using the weapon of closing the factories to apply pressure on workers on the one hand, while the depth of the economic crisis provided further pressure.

The second challenge has been the conflicts among the unions. Despite the unprecedented victory of establishing more than 1,000 independent workers unions, there have been broad disparities in the leadership and militancy of these unions. A rapid shift toward union bureaucratization, leaning toward conservatism, slow and gradual work, opposition to politicization, and the division of the movement into two competing federations has compounded the challenge.

This all comes in addition to the diligent work of the Brotherhood to revive the old trade union organization under joint control with the old regime remnants, in an attempt to besiege or assimilate the independent unions.

It is this that has given the coming popular political movement an exceptional opportunity for a qualitative shift in the labor movement.

All of this dictates our task: the forming of coordinating committees for labor action along sectoral, industry and geographical lines; the linking of partial demands and total demands; and the linking of economic demands with political demands. This is the urgent task for revolutionaries in the coming period.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The Institution of the Military

The issue of the institution of the military and its relationship with the catastrophe of Muslim Brotherhood rule has resurfaced as the most pressing issue on the Egyptian political scene during the past months.

Among the increasing demands of liberal commentators and leaders, sometimes implied, other times hidden, is the necessity of military intervention to get rid of Brotherhood rule. This means nothing other than a demand for a military coup. There has been a flood of statements and articles regarding the independence, neutrality and patriotism of the institution of the military.

This flood has not ceased since the Sinai crisis, with the kidnapping of soldiers, the miracle of their release without military intervention, the lack of negotiations with the kidnappers and of course without their capture. It has continued up through the political theater surrounding the Ethiopian dam, with discourse on the necessity of a military solution, and finally through the surprise decision of the first constitutional court on the necessity of permitting the officers and soldiers of the armed forces to cast their votes in the elections. This was a decision opposed by both the Brotherhood and the liberals together, for this threatens not only to politicize the army, but to divide it.

Despite the assertions of the army leadership that it will not undertake any coup and its eternal assurances of neutrality and patriotism, it is still the hope of many liberal forces that the army will intervene to rescue the country from the nightmare of the Brotherhood, to exchange them for the ranks of the military. How the liberals love that military, which even until the past year was crushing the necks of Egyptian people and driving the counterrevolution. The military is still the impregnable wall standing in the way of the development of the Egyptian revolution and the achievement of its goals.

There are a number of facts that we must recall when regarding this comic scenario. First, the institution of the military is not a neutral institution, but the steel heart of the Egyptian capitalist state, the state of Mubarak and his remnants, the state of the big businessmen and behind them American imperialism. Second, the army is the mirror of society and will not be divided from this society, for its leadership is a fundamental part of the Egyptian ruling class in both its secular and Islamic wings.

As for the soldiers and officers in its ranks, they are farmers, workers and poor people. It is not in the interests of the leadership and army generals that the Egyptian revolution should be victorious, not only because that would mean, by necessity, judgments passed on their crimes against the Egyptian revolution. Also, and more importantly, their interests and power require them to be part of the counterrevolution. As for the rank and file, they have a direct interest in the implementation of the goals of the Egyptian revolution--for social justice, freedom and dignity--whether within the army or outside it.

Thirdly, the myth of the military protecting the people and the nation has no basis in truth. The connection of that institution with the American army, American interests and American weapons is what holds the allegiance of the leadership of this institution. There is no portion of this loyalty for the Egyptian people. This also means regionally the protection of Zionist and American national interests, and not the safety and security of the Egyptian people.

Additionally, we must remember that the military participates with the Muslim Brotherhood in ruling Egypt. For this was the bargain between them--a safe exit, a national security council, a secret budget without any democratic oversight and the continuation of military control over its economic empire, which comprises a significant portion of the Egyptian economy. Up to the present moment, this bargain remains in force.

The crisis for the military leadership is that the Muslim Brotherhood is not capable of executing its part in this bargain, which is the liquidation of the Egyptian revolution and the pacification of the populace. Sharing in this crisis is the American administration and some of the Gulf states.

The entry of army tanks and armored personnel carriers into Sinai is not for the goal of preventing terrorism or confronting the Zionist enemy, but for confronting the people of Sinai. They have revolted just like other oppressed and downtrodden Egyptians against the historic injustice of Cairo's rulers and the theft of their most basic rights of citizenship.

The differences that have arisen between the Muslim Brotherhood and the military are related to the failure of the Brotherhood to resolve the economic crisis and contain or crush the Egyptian revolution. They are related to the fear of the military leadership that the revolutionary tide will arrive among the ranks of its soldiers and officers.

This is what will finally happen if the Egyptian revolution is capable of perservering against the counterrevolution, which is composed of an alliance of the Muslim Brotherhood leadership, the military and the old regime remnants. The figureheads of the old regime have mostly been released from prison, honored and glorified, despite the fact that their hands are stained with the blood of our martyrs.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The Front for the Salvation of the Muslim Brotherhood

Since the liberal opposition to the Muslim Brotherhood formed the National Salvation Front, the weakness of this opposition has quickly become apparent. It has assisted, first of all, in transforming the conflict into an identity issue between secular currents represented by the Front and Islamic currents represented by the Muslim Brotherhood and their allies among the Salafis. This has, of course, strengthened the position of the Muslim Brotherhood. Then the liberals gave another gift to the Brotherhood by allying themselves with remnants of the Mubarak regime, and with their unceasing demands for military intervention.

This is all in addition to the exceptional fragmentation and opportunism among the Front's leadership, some of which have gone to meet Brotherhood leaders, while others criticized, only to then meet with the same Brotherhood leaders in secret. This is simply the most recent of the farces in which the Egyptian bourgeois opposition and its hangers-on among the nationalists and leftists have specialized.

This vacillation of the liberals and the old regime remnants in opposing the Brotherhood comes from the fact that they, like the Muslim Brotherhood, don't want a deepening or continuation of the revolution. They only want a battle around division of power, not around the nature of power. They are ready, especially by means of the media, to mobilize the populace to oppose the Brotherhood, but they fear that this mobilization will lead to a new revolution which will overthrow both them and the Brotherhood at the same time. For this reason, they will continue to use the masses as leverage in negotiations with the Brotherhood or to motivate the army to intervene. But their fear of losing control to the broader movement remains their most important obsession.

Above and beyond this, they do not put forward any alternative economic scenario to the Muslim Brotherhood. It is the same capitalism, the same market policies, the same strategies of begging from the West and the Gulf and serving in their interests.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Tamarod (Rebellion), June 30 and the Revolutionary Alternative

The Tamarod (Rebellion) campaign has emerged after a period of retreat in the revolutionary movement to ignite the fuse of that movement on a national level heretofore unseen. The genius of the name and the simplicity of the campaign quickly transformed it into a national movement in which millions have participated with their signatures.

Even more importantly, hundreds of thousands have participated in the process of gathering signatures. For a large percentage of these, it was their first time participating in the revolutionary process, which has increased the breadth and depth of the radicalization among the Egyptian masses. This is reflected in the tremendous preparations for the marches of June 30 and the establishment of coordinating committees in every governorate to prepare for that pivotal day. These comprise the beginning of a new battle among the battles of the Egyptian revolution.

As has been the case in all previous crises and revolutionary battles, the situation is complicated. All of the forces hostile to the Brotherhood participate in the Rebellion campaign and will participate in June 30. But these forces have different goals for this movement.

There are the remnants of the old regime, which have regained a large part of their confidence and cohesiveness as a result of the ludicrous release of the majority of their figureheads from jail with handfuls of dollars. They are more confident also because the liberal bourgeois opposition has given them new cover--to appear as if they were a legitimate branch of the secular democratic opposition against Brotherhood rule. Their goal within the movement is the complete return of the old regime, even if that means a new set of figureheads, and the complete victory of the counterrevolution as well as bloody retribution against the revolution and all who participated in it.

There is also the liberal bourgeois opposition as represented in the non-feloul parties of the Salvation Front, who naturally do not want the completion of the revolution, especially in relation to the goal of social justice. They only want to limit the influence of the Brotherhood and the Salafis and to share with them in ruling the country and in formulating its future. As for the popular movement, according to them it is only a way to apply pressure to negotiate and conclude bargains in the end.

As for the revolutionaries, the goal of their participation in the Rebellion campaign and in the battles that will begin on June 30 is to reclaim the revolution from the Islamists thieves.

This is not because they are Islamists, but because they have betrayed the revolution, rescued Mubarak's state and implemented the same oppressive capitalist policies, including complete subservience to American imperial interests and the big businessmen from the Mubarak period at the expense of the interests of the revolutionary Egyptian people and the blood of the martyrs. They have preserved the influence of the police and army generals and the state apparatus with the same degree of corruption and cronyism that they have always exemplified. Their goal remains limited: to dominate the apparatus and institutions of the state, with their leaders participating in holding power with the remnants of the previous regime at the pinnacles of these institutions and apparatuses, while their corrupt and repressive character is preserved.

Salvation from Brotherhood rule isn't, according to the revolutionaries, a goal in and of itself, but the removal of an obstacle on the way to completing the Egyptian revolution. It will not be completed without retribution for the martyrs and the injured of the Egyptian revolution via revolutionary courts passing judgment on the army and police officers, Mubarak's businessmen and their thugs, and via the destruction of the repressive, exploitative and predatory state which still stands.

Mohamed Morsi and his group still protect it to this day alongside their predecessors. The revolution will not be completed until the repressive state is replaced with a democratic nation that directly expresses the will of the masses of Egyptian workers, farmers and poor, a nation that achieves the goals of the revolution--freedom, dignity, social justice.

It is apparent, then, that what appears to be unity among these various parties on the goal of removing Mohamed Morsi conceals deep differences in goals and interests. It is not in the interests of the revolutionaries to blur or hide or postpone pointing out these differences, but rather to discriminate from the first moment between the enemies of the revolution and those who wish to complete it. This not only means complete independence within the movement from those opportunists and traitors, but also working to expose them and their true intentions to the people.

Some people imagine that a position like this will lead to weakness in the battle against Morsi and the crumbling of the forces against him. The opposite is true, for any leniency toward the feloul or the bourgeois opposition strengthens Morsi and does not weaken him. For among a section of the population, the Muslim Brotherhood is able to depict the battle as if it were a battle between the Brotherhood and the old regime remnants.

Therefore precision, clarity and independence regarding the old regime remnants and the traitors is a condition for victory over Morsi and the Brotherhood. As for opportunism and alliances between the old regime remnants and the bourgeois opposition, this will lead to nothing other than a loss of credibility for those who commit this crime and will strengthen the ability of the Brotherhood to remain in power.

The Rebellion campaign and the demonstrations and occupations of June 30 could evolve into the beginnings of the second Egyptian revolution. But it is incumbent upon us to learn from the lessons of the previous revolutionary waves.

Firstly, we need an independent political platform to gather all of the revolutionary forces and movements in a form independent from the old regime and the liberals in the National Salvation Front, as a clear political alternative to this miserable coalition.

Secondly, the labor movement and the popular movements must be at the heart of this new political front, for they have a direct interest not only in overthrowing Morsi, but in completing the revolution to its very end. This means that an alternative revolutionary front must transcend the secular-religious rivalry between the Muslim Brotherhood and the National Salvation Front. It must distinguish itself on the basis of its social alignment with the workers and the poor and their interests.

Third, retribution against those among the old regime, the military and the Muslim Brotherhood who have killed our martyrs must remain at the forefront of our priorities and our demands. For we cannot complete a revolution in the shadow of the release of the murderers of the counterrevolution, honored and glorified while the blood of our martyrs still stains their hands.

Fourth, it is necessary that we put forth a clearly defined program presented as an alternative at the level of the economy, society, politics and culture. For without winning the people to a clear convincing revolutionary alternative, when the question of program is raised by the Brotherhood and the Salafis on the one hand, and the old regime remnants and liberals on the other hand, we will not be capable of defeating the counterrevolution and completing our arduous revolutionary path.

[Le Socialiste]

i'm supporting the military.Fuck the Muslim brotherhood.

The military is not some neutral entity, nor is it reluctant to oust Morsi. It is, as an institution, heavily invested in the Egyptian economy (its leaders hold millions in Egyptian pounds, if not more). So, the military leadership is as much working to preserve its standing in the country as it is trying to unseat Morsi and the MB, both of whom have been unable to stymie the flood of popular sentiment unleashed by the first initial wave of the 2011 revolution.

[ed miliband]

The Revolutionary Socialists seem to fit the above 'criteria.' They're small, but they're one of the few militant organizations that've been opposing both parties to the conflict. Here's an article (http://socialistworker.org/2013/06/27/revolution-and-counterrevolution-in-egypt) one of its leading members wrote just a few days before the rebellion:



bastards were supporting morsi last year, ffs.

[Le Socialiste]

bastards were supporting morsi last year, ffs.

Yes, but as Mostafa Ali (a socialist and journalist in Egypt) said at the time, voters should support Morsi "without any illusions," in order to prevent the Egyptian military from overtaking the entire process, while simultaneously "doing all we can to build our forces on the ground in case Shafiq wins, and to prepare for all sorts of betrayals by the leadership of the Muslim Brotherhood if Morsi wins."

The matter is not nearly as clear-cut as you're making it out to be. However flawed you or I may consider such a position to be, it's not an indicator of any serious failing of the RS as a serious, radical organization.

[Manar]

Some people in this thread that there is an option C while there are only options A and B - the Ikwan rats continue to rule, or another period of temporary military rule, respectively. To oppose the military coup d'état is to support at least 3 more years of Ikwan domination.

I'm very excited about these developments. Hopefully the Ikwanists rise up and start a civil war. They'll get butchered, but not before killing some liberals with the new shiny NATO guns they smuggled in from Libya. It's a win-win situation.

[Le Socialiste]

Some people in this thread that there is an option C while there are only options A and B - the Ikwan rats continue to rule, or another period of temporary military rule, respectively. To oppose the military coup d'état is to support at least 3 more years of Ikwan domination.

I'm very excited about these developments. Hopefully the Ikwanists rise up and start a civil war. They'll get butchered, but not before killing some liberals with the new shiny NATO guns they smuggled in from Libya. It's a win-win situation.

I fail to see how a military coup, coupled with an Islamist uprising, represents a 'win-win situation.'

[ed miliband]

Yes, but as Mostafa Ali (a socialist and journalist in Egypt) said at the time, voters should support Morsi "without any illusions," in order to prevent the Egyptian military from overtaking the entire process, while simultaneously "doing all we can to build our forces on the ground in case Shafiq wins, and to prepare for all sorts of betrayals by the leadership of the Muslim Brotherhood if Morsi wins."

The matter is not nearly as clear-cut as you're making it out to be. However flawed you or I may consider such a position to be, it's not an indicator of any serious failing of the RS as a serious, radical organization.

within the wider i.s. tradition, this has been the swp's line on the labour party in britain for the last forty years, almost word for word: "without any illusions... whilst building an alternative" -- it's meaningless. and where did supporting the brotherhood get them? one of their young militants shot dead just a few weeks later. disgusting.

[ckaihatsu]

I fail to see how a military coup, coupled with an Islamist uprising, represents a 'win-win situation.'


(As though all the 'players' would neatly decimate each other, leaving Egypt for the taking by mass control....)

[ed miliband]

morsi is out...

[Le Socialiste]

within the wider i.s. tradition, this has been the swp's line on the labour party in britain for the last forty years, almost word for word: "without any illusions... whilst building an alternative" -- it's meaningless. and where did supporting the brotherhood get them? one of their young militants shot dead just a few weeks later. disgusting.

Within the context of the SWP, yes. I agree, fully. It is a mistake, however, to look at last year's elections, which were taking place in a country whose revolution had barely reached even the most basic liberal, democratic reforms - and where the counterrevolution was building enough momentum to put an end to this process, and equate the situation with an election that occurs in a (more or less, at least relatively) stable, liberal democracy.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

the military are establishing a 'technocratic government' from what i gathered in the speech. junta?

[ed miliband]

Within the context of the SWP, yes. I agree, fully. It is a mistake, however, to look at last year's elections, which were taking place in a country whose revolution had barely reached even the most basic liberal, democratic reforms - and where the counterrevolution was building enough momentum to put an end to this process, and equate the situation with an election that occurs in a (more or less, at least relatively) stable, liberal democracy.

but the point is this is a trope that i.s. organisations have rolled out for decades; the only difference is in britain it's as farce, in egypt it was tragic.

[Manar]

I fail to see how a military coup, coupled with an Islamist uprising, represents a 'win-win situation.'
You fail to see how an Islamist uprising is a "win situation"? Why do you support the Islamist uprising in Syria then? :confused:

Salafism exterminated in Egypt(which would also mean a hard blow to the Mujahideen in Syria) and many liberals killed as well? How is that not a win-win? I know that the ISO is really friendly with both Islamists and liberals, but Marxists like me have no love for either. As far as I care, all of them belong dead in a mass grave somewhere. Their list of crimes is long enough to earn that fate hundreds of times over.

[Manar]

the military are establishing a 'technocratic government' from what i gathered in the speech. junta?
Actually they announced that they will be organizing both presidential and parliamentary elections shortly. But a Salafi uprising might postpone the plan.

[Le Socialiste]

You fail to see how an Islamist uprising is a "win situation"? Why do you support the Islamist uprising in Syria then? :confused:

Salafism exterminated in Egypt(which would also mean a hard blow to the Mujahideen in Syria) and many liberals killed as well? How is that not a win-win? I know that the ISO is really friendly with both Islamists and liberals, but Marxists like me have no love for either. As far as I care, all of them belong dead in a mass grave somewhere. Their list of crimes is long enough to earn that fate hundreds of times over.

Yeah, you're a Marxist alright. Go take your sorry excuse for politics elsewhere. :laugh:

And I don't support the Islamists in Syria. Nice try, though.

[Le Socialiste]

Actually they announced that they will be organizing both presidential and parliamentary elections shortly. But a Salafi uprising might postpone the plan.

So, you think a military coup is a 'good' thing?

[B5C]

Interesting the military is using the religious heads of the Coptic Church and Egypt's largest mosque on live TV to endorse the coup.

[Arlekino]

Well not sure what is going happening in future Morsi is gone so what? Is another leader give for workers some better paradise in Egypt if will I should migrate to Egypt.

[B5C]

Looks like the Syrian civil war also provoked the military to removed Morsi:



Morsi role at Syria rally seen as tipping point for Egypt army

Head of state had attended rally with hardline Islamists calling for holy war in war-torn neighbour


Army concern about the way President Mohamed Morsi was governing Egypt reached tipping point when the head of state attended a rally packed with hardline fellow Islamists calling for holy war in Syria, military sources have said.
At the June 15th rally, Sunni Muslim clerics used the word “infidels” to denounce both the Shias fighting to protect Syrian president Bashar al-Assad and the non-Islamists that oppose Mr Morsi at home.
Mr Morsi himself called for foreign intervention in Syria against Mr Assad, leading to a veiled rebuke from the army, which issued an apparently bland but sharp-edged statement the next day stressing that its only role was guarding Egypt’s borders.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/africa/morsi-role-at-syria-rally-seen-as-tipping-point-for-egypt-army-1.1450612

[Manar]

Interesting the military is using the religious heads of the Coptic Church and Egypt's largest mosque on live TV to endorse the coup.
If I was a Copt in Egypt, I'd sigh a breath of relief. The Salafis have been butchering Christians for almost 3 years now, and finally the authorities are taking their side.

[B5C]

Ok we may see some fighting soon. Looks like the pro-Morsi supporters just took an oath to defend Morsi and put him back into power. The crowed were joyous of the oath and ready to fight.

http://www.aljazeera.com/watch_now/

[ckaihatsu]

Mr Morsi himself called for foreign intervention in Syria against Mr Assad,


Adventurism.

[Manar]

So, you think a military coup is a 'good' thing?
Are you that naive or something? How else would you think Morsi and the Ikwan could be toppled? Morsi was elected by the majority of the country in a democratic election. He could only be removed by undemocratic means.

I don't know what there is to complain about. The military will rule for a few months at most, then there will be elections and power will be handed to one or the other pack of neoliberal dogs.

[B5C]

Are you that naive or something? How else would you think Morsi and the Ikwan could be toppled? Morsi was elected by the majority of the country in a democratic election. He could only be removed by undemocratic means.

I don't know what there is to complain about. The military will rule for a few months at most, then there will be elections and power will be handed to one or the other pack of neoliberal dogs.

If the country doesn't fall into civil war first. The pro-morsi group is very furious and feel betrayed by the military for removing their democratically dictator.

[Manar]

If the country doesn't fall into civil war first. The pro-morsi group is very furious and feel betrayed by the military for removing their democratically dictator.
They'll be butchered and be forced into going underground. Not that they aren't used to it. I don't think they have enough arms to be a serious threat to the Egyptian military. Most of what they smuggled from Libya was shipped off to their brethren in Syria anyway.

[human strike]

I think it may be slightly misleading to describe this as a coup. The MB government had stopped functioning, it no longer had access to any significant means of violence, was unable to maintain authority in the streets. In other words, its sovereignty had collapsed. Whilst the military may have no legal legitimacy in taking control, it has a sort of ideological legitimacy through its monopoly of the use of violence/coercion. State sovereignty almost automatically becomes the military's. Military takeover in a situation like this is more fait accompli than coup d'etat. The government is gone but the state is still very much present and its how the protesters relate to this military state, whether or not they recognise its authority and legitimacy that determines what happens next.

Has anybody seen any new on any kind of organising going on in communities and workplaces? Is this movement any bigger than the insurrection in the streets?

[B5C]

Well the military just put up the leader of Al-Nour Party (Which is more islamist and right wing than MB) to approve the coup.

[Luís Henrique]

I fail to see how a military coup, coupled with an Islamist uprising, represents a 'win-win situation.'

When you are not a factor, everything is a win-win.

Unhappily, it is a win for others, or a win for further others...

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

Yeah, you're a Marxist alright.

Of course he is.

The exact kind of Marxist Marx had in mind when he said, "I'm not a Marxist".

Luís Henrique

[Paul Pott]

Morsi has been deposed. There is an interim president.

[Astarte]

These events can't be interpreted as anything besides a victory for secularism in the region and a sharp blow to Islamist expansion. It is a little absurd to be hand-wringing over liberals considering the historical epoch we live in is a high tide mark for reaction globally, these events cannot be interpreted as anything but a blow to the most virulent sort of strain of reaction.

[Le Socialiste]

Are you that naive or something? How else would you think Morsi and the Ikwan could be toppled? Morsi was elected by the majority of the country in a democratic election. He could only be removed by undemocratic means.

You know for a Marxist, you seem to have very little vested interest or belief in the self-emancipative abilities of the working-class. Need I remind you that current events have unfolded, in part, due to the mass "Tamarod" (rebellion) campaign that garnered over 22 million signatures calling for Morsi to resign in the lead up to the demonstrations? That is well over the 12 million voters (http://www.webcitation.org/69sLPoWnZ) who voted for him last year. The three major tribes in the south of Egypt have all come out against him, and even his former voting base has begun calling for his ouster. This move by the Egyptian military - which holds large stakes in the domestic economy, btw - is an attempt to circumvent the enormous groundswell of anti-governmental and institutional sentiments occurring amongst entire segments of the population. The revolution will not be carried by the leadership of the military, but by the rank-and-file.

(Your support for the military's actions reek of naivety, too.)


I don't know what there is to complain about.

Of course you don't.

[ckaihatsu]

Considering that the SCAF is spurning the latest U.S.-backed ruler, does that mean it's also spurning all U.S. (economic) *involvement* in Egypt as well -- ? If so, this *may* be a populist anti-colonialist move during a period of increasing colonization from the likes of the U.S. and NATO.

[Sasha]

Dont know about that, I do know that the there was huge resentment against the US envoy/ambassador at the demo's the last days...

[TheEmancipator]

And the clergy. They've just got to get secularism going in the Muslim world before any political progress can be made.

Mind you, Europe is no better with our centre-right parties going on about keeping Western Europe Christian in terms of culture. And then there's the US, where your religion influences your electorate more than your policy.

So giving lectures on secularism shouldn't be Cameron's or Obamas strong suit.

[ckaihatsu]

Considering that the SCAF is spurning the latest U.S.-backed ruler, does that mean it's also spurning all U.S. (economic) *involvement* in Egypt as well -- ? If so, this *may* be a populist anti-colonialist move during a period of increasing colonization from the likes of the U.S. and NATO.





Dont know about that, I do know that the there was huge resentment against the US envoy/ambassador at the demo's the last days...


If the military establishment *isn't* going to assume governmental duties, like those involving foreign relations (to the U.S.), then it's *already* operating technocratically, to issue new elections, etc., merely maintaining the overall status quo.

[Le Socialiste]

A statement (http://www.socialist.ca/node/1814) from the Revolutionary Socialists in Egypt:


Every Egyptian should be proud that millions went out into all the streets and squares of Egypt. Not only are they making their own history, but the history of all humanity. They have confirmed that all power lies with the revolutionary people, not with the Brotherhood and not with the National Salvation Front, not even with the army or the police. All must now be silent and listen to the thunderous voice of the people, demanding the fall of the regime and the achievement of the goals of the January revolution, for which thousands paid a price in blood.

An unprecedented revolutionary situation has developed over the demand that the failed president and his group leave power. Practical steps towards taking power are being taken, by shutting down provincial governors' offices, and expelling the governors who are affiliated to the Brotherhood in many provinces, confirming the principle of direct democracy in governorate elections. In order to achieve this we call on the workers and the masses to form their popular committees in the workplaces and neighbourhoods.

The speech by the Minister of Defence raised more questions than it answered, with its vague wording and expressions open to varying interpretations. It gave government and opposition 48 hours to agree a way out of the crisis but raised fears of deals and compromises, such as the temporary handover of power to the president of the Shura Council (Morsi's brother-in-law).

The failed regime is still resisting, and this is unacceptable to the masses of 30 June, who have rejected the Brotherhood's rule. And although the Minister of Defence's statement began by stressing non-interference in politics, it ended by indicating his participation in the drawing up a road-map for the transitional period, building it into the political process.

We are confident that the revolutionary people will not accept any scenario which does not include Morsi's departure and early presidential elections. We call on all the revolutionary forces and partners in the Rebel campaign to stand against any deals, American pressure, or coups. We affirm that any transitional government must have the following as its priorities:

1. Immediate steps to achieve social justice for the benefit of millions of poor and low-income who paid a greater share of the price of Morsi's failure, and that of the Military Council before him, to implement the goals of the revolution.

2. Election of a Constituent Assembly, representing all sections of the people - workers, peasants and the poor, Coptic Christians and women - to write a civil, democratic constitution which entrenches the values of freedom and social justice

3. The drafting of a law of transitional justice which holds to account the Brotherhood for the blood it has spilled, as well as the Military Council and the symbols of the Mubarak regime, and achieves retribution for the martyrs and injured of the revolution.

Despite our appreciation of the people's joy at this great mobilisation and the signs of victory, the theft of the January Revolution by a deal between the Brotherhood and the Military Council in February 2011 and what followed thereafter, stands as a warning. We must remained prepared and mobilised in the streets, exercising constant pressure so as not to leave any chance for traitors and opportunists to steal our glorious revolution.

We affirm that the general strike is the weapon for all wage-workers, employees and professionals. It is an even more powerful weapon than sit-ins and demonstrations, for it was strikes which finished off Mubarak. Strikes will be our weapon to resist any deals or an attempted coup against the demands of the masses.

Glory to the martyrs! Victory to the revolution! Shame on the murderers!

[cyu]

One group wants to preserve military power, one group wants to preserve the influence of their subsection of society. It's really little different from the Democrat vs Republican "contests" around here - both sides talk a big game, but have no real interest in helping the population as a whole.

When Morsi came in, he had to check the influence of Mubarak's cronies across the courts, military, and everywhere else, which was still largely in place since Mubarak had been in power long enough for his people to become very entrenched. In order to fight the institutionalized power, Morsi resorted to less-than-democratic tactics to try to prevent Mubarak's system from returning. As a result, his reputation suffered among those who had formerly had a wait-and-see attitude.

It may be too late for him now, but if I were him at the beginning, first thing I would have pushed for, would be for rank-and-file soldiers to elect their officers, thereby almost completely transforming loyalties up and down the military structure (echoes of Libya maybe? who knows) - next thing would have been for media emloyees to elect their own managers and editors - thus doing a similar thing to the mass media as well. Alternatively you might borrow a page from the Venezuelan playbook - arming and training all civilians as a bulwark against counter-revolution.

[Agathor]

If you look at the international surveys of religious fanaticism, Egypt is consistently at the top. Secularism and democracy are mutually exclusive there.

[Paul Pott]

If you look at the international surveys of religious fanaticism, Egypt is consistently at the top. Secularism and democracy are mutually exclusive there.

Bit of an odd claim to make in light of the last few days.

[Fred]

The statement from the Revolutionary Socialists in Egypt reads like a declaration from a liberal group. Are these guys supposed to be marxists? Trotskyists? Egad.

[Agathor]

Bit of an odd claim to make in light of the last few days.

I doubt Egypt suddenly became secular over the last few days.

[Paul Pott]

I doubt Egypt suddenly became secular over the last few days.

Are you saying this was not an uprising against Islamism, or that it wasn't actually representative of the people?

[Rafiq]

There isn't even the lesser evil option here as there is in Syria. At least Assad is opposed, on some level, to neoliberalism.

On what level, though? We don't know anything about the military's motivations. Strategically it may be beneficial to look the other way while they stomp out the Islamists. Or it may not be.

[Le Socialiste]

The statement from the Revolutionary Socialists in Egypt reads like a declaration from a liberal group. Are these guys supposed to be marxists? Trotskyists? Egad.

Except the liberals aren't demanding these things. The National Salvation Front (an arguably liberal grouping) has held off from demanding justice against the Military Council and former Mubarak officials, due to the fact that they have ties with the former and representatives made up of the latter. They're as committed to the neoliberal dictates of the IMF and other financial bodies as the Muslim Brotherhood, so they're not going to undertake any major efforts to lessen or eradicate the sheer economic burden lifted on the shoulders of the poor and impoverished. These are obviously transitional demands, and should be read as such. Hell, the Bolsheviks initially organized around 1) an eight-hour workday for workers, (2) land redistribution for the peasants, and (3) a constituent assembly to establish a democratic republic. These demands (otherwise known as the "Three Whales of Bolshevism") could easily be misconstrued as evidence of 'liberalism' if taken out of context. And that's key, comrade.

Of course, the Revolutionary Socialists aren't the Bolsheviks. But I think their approach is, at least at present, along the right track. Time will tell if they can maintain this.

[Paul Pott]

The military's motivations are to secure its own traditional privileges. The Muslim Brotherhood was seen as threatening to its interests from day one.

The people of Egypt might celebrate, but they cheer their own butchers.

[Akshay!]

I don't know if there's already a thread on this but Morsi has been ousted! :)

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/07/20137319828176718.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/egypts-morsi-defiant-under-pressure-as-deadline-looms/2013/07/03/28fda81c-e39d-11e2-80eb-3145e2994a55_story.html

Your thoughts?

[Paul Pott]

A new chapter.

[Zostrianos]

These events can't be interpreted as anything besides a victory for secularism in the region and a sharp blow to Islamist expansion.

I really hope so. Especially considering that a majority of Egyptians have very sinister religious opinions, and they could very well decide to elect someone even worse than Morsi:
http://wwrn.org/articles/40146/

Like many Muslim publics surveyed around the world, a majority of Egyptian Muslims (74%) want sharia, or Islamic law, enshrined as the official law of the land. However, Egypt is one of the few countries where a clear majority (74%) of sharia supporters say both Muslims and non-Muslims in their country should be subject to Islamic law. Worldwide, a median of 39% of Muslims who favor enshrining Islamic law say sharia should apply to Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

[Red Commissar]

I should add for people going on about this being solely about secularism or religious stuff, Al Nour, the main Salafist outfit, supported the coup and one of its members was among the religious clergy and political figures that were with General Sisi when he announced their intent to form a transitional government. This isn't really as clear cut as that, though it's one of the big grievances.

[Paul Pott]

74% want Islamist rule, utter bullshit.

You seem to forget that Morsi barely won against Shafiq.

[khad]

74% want Islamist rule, utter bullshit.

You seem to forget that Morsi barely won against Shafiq.
According to Pew, 84% of Egyptian Muslims also seem to favor the death penalty for apostasy.

http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/2010-muslim-01-13.png

[blake 3:17]

Fuck Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood. He has spent huge amounts of money on smashing dissent ohh while delivering nothing socially and did this one to the people of Gaza:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/21/world/middleeast/egypts-floods-smuggling-tunnels-to-gaza-with-sewage.html?_r=0

[blake 3:17]

I really hope so. Especially considering that a majority of Egyptians have very sinister religious opinions, and they could very well decide to elect someone even worse than Morsi:
http://wwrn.org/articles/40146/

Like many Muslim publics surveyed around the world, a majority of Egyptian Muslims (74%) want sharia, or Islamic law, enshrined as the official law of the land. However, Egypt is one of the few countries where a clear majority (74%) of sharia supporters say both Muslims and non-Muslims in their country should be subject to Islamic law. Worldwide, a median of 39% of Muslims who favor enshrining Islamic law say sharia should apply to Muslims and non-Muslims alike.


I wouldn't trust wwrn.org -- It's "friends" are bizarre http://wwrn.org/weblinks/

[cyu]

What percentage of Americans support bombing of abortion clinics?

[Os Cangaceiros]

Probably an extremely small percentage.

[Astarte]

While the swing in the Islamic world has been, like every where else globally since the fall of the USSR, to the right, it is my perception, perhaps even wrong assumption that places like Turkey and Egypt, still, in spite of the rightward shift remain with secularism firmly entrenched in the world views of key (mostly urban) layers of the population. It really does not so much matter (even if the number of 74% of Egyptians wanting Sharia law are correct - which I feel are over-estimated by at least a third) if a majority of Egyptians want Sharia - which again, I seriously doubt - as long as the key layers who stand for secularism retain state power and continually marginalize and deprive the leadership of the Islamist currents of a platform in the long run the perspective for a genuine socialist movement to develop will become a lot better as conditions will be more suitable for a secular leftist movement to fill the vacuum of the demands for increases in living standards rather than disgusting and shallow fundamentalist "populism" attempting to take on that role.

EDIT: Just noticed the Pew chart Khad posted. Not encouraging.

[Rusty Shackleford]

It is not 74% of Egyptians, it is 74% of Egyptian Muslims. So, maybe it is 64% of the population that actually holds these views? Even then the protests were more than likely fueled by economic issues and not secularism v liberalism. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Many fighters in Russia were more than likely Orthodox or Muslim, not atheists, during the revolution.

my only concern of the brotherhood (and i am most definitely concerned about SCAF) is that it may radicalize and militarize them. though if anything, maybe it will pull egyptian mujahids out of syria.

[Le Socialiste]

but the point is this is a trope that i.s. organisations have rolled out for decades; the only difference is in britain it's as farce, in egypt it was tragic.

I feel like there is more you could say about this. In what ways is this argument wrong? All you've pointed to is the fact that people have been making similar points 'for decades'; what, concretely, is flawed about it? I think it's a mistake to apply a blanket understanding of the SWP's approach (which, not knowing the extent of the party's relationship to Labour, I'm unacquainted with) to conditions on the ground in Egypt. They're simply not the same.

[ed miliband]

I feel like there is more you could say about this. In what ways is this argument wrong? All you've pointed to is the fact that people have been making similar points 'for decades'; what, concretely, is flawed about it? I think it's a mistake to apply a blanket understanding of the SWP's approach (which, not knowing the extent of the party's relationship to Labour, I'm unacquainted with) to conditions on the ground in Egypt. They're simply not the same.

i think it's obvious what's wrong with a "revolutionary organisation" encouraging its militants to vote for theocratic, right-wing, anti-working class forces like the brotherhood, under the guise of "...fighting for an alternative". there were no marvellous dialectics in the revolutionary socialists' statement, there was no profound application of marx's method, it was no different from your standard lesser-evilism (a position based wholly on idealism), except perhaps for the idea they'd form a front with "all the reformist and revolutionary forces" and force an silly program on the brotherhood. the r.s. understood the brotherhood's politics, knew its history, and still sided with it against the class, to their own tragic ends, as i have pointed out earlier.

i really don't think there's anything left to say on the matter: the brotherhood did not represent a force that would "continue the revolution" against shafiq's counter-revolutionary forces, their "mass base" in league with the r.s. could not form a front and force a revolutionary program on them, frankly these illusions were absurd then, and have proven to be just so now.

[cyu]

What would you call a Christian version of "sharia law"?

http://global.christianpost.com/news/christians-clash-with-jesus-on-abortion-gay-marriage-survey-finds-67622/

Conservative and liberal Christians say their own views on issues like abortion and same-sex marriage would differ greatly from Jesus if he were walking among them today. respondents believe that Jesus would be more compassionate than they are toward undocumented immigrants and the poor.

Both liberal and conservative Christians expressed the opinion that Jesus' views on morality-related issues — such as abortion and same-sex marriage — would be stricter than theirs. Conservatives believed, however, that Jesus would be more open to fellowship issues — such as taxation to reduce economic inequality and the treatment of immigrants.

Both groups appeared to believe that the issues most important to them, would also be of the same importance to Jesus.

liberals finding it difficult to reconcile their views with teachings of the Old Testament; for conservatives, the New Testament teachings often clash with their political views.

Liberals are conceding that they're deviating from Jesus on their views on moral issues and conservatives are conceding that they are deviating from Jesus on fellowship issues

There is a reality that conservatives are more religious than liberals. It's more important for them to reconcile their views with their religion

[Flying Purple People Eater]

So the local news station here just broadcast a guy saying that the successful anti Morsi protests 'were thoroughly anti-democratic and that this poses a dangerous problem for Egypt's future.'

As opposed to Morsi, his blatantly muslim brotherhood discriminatory and bogan political tract, his neolib bullshit and his governments' utter corruption and hijacking of all Egyptian official unions (some of the first anti-morsi protesters were members of illegal unions after the MB practically liquefied the power of the ones owned by the state). Not to mention that the Muslim Brotherhood has a history of holding rigged ballots. Fucking idiots.

[cyu]

So the local news station here just broadcast a guy saying that the successful anti Morsi protests 'were thoroughly anti-democratic and that this poses a dangerous problem for Egypt's future.'


When watching capitalist-owned media reporting on "non-trivial" issues, the reporting is more useful for determining the corporate owners' political views than for determining the state of the rest of reality =]

[khad]

What would you call a Christian version of "sharia law"?

http://global.christianpost.com/news/christians-clash-with-jesus-on-abortion-gay-marriage-survey-finds-67622/

Conservative and liberal Christians say their own views on issues like abortion and same-sex marriage would differ greatly from Jesus if he were walking among them today. respondents believe that Jesus would be more compassionate than they are toward undocumented immigrants and the poor.

Both liberal and conservative Christians expressed the opinion that Jesus' views on morality-related issues — such as abortion and same-sex marriage — would be stricter than theirs. Conservatives believed, however, that Jesus would be more open to fellowship issues — such as taxation to reduce economic inequality and the treatment of immigrants.

Both groups appeared to believe that the issues most important to them, would also be of the same importance to Jesus.

liberals finding it difficult to reconcile their views with teachings of the Old Testament; for conservatives, the New Testament teachings often clash with their political views.

Liberals are conceding that they're deviating from Jesus on their views on moral issues and conservatives are conceding that they are deviating from Jesus on fellowship issues

There is a reality that conservatives are more religious than liberals. It's more important for them to reconcile their views with their religion

What would you call the wahhabization of yet another country in the Middle East?

http://frontpagemag.com/2012/raymond-ibrahim/egypt%E2%80%99s-first-%E2%80%98sex-slave-marriage%E2%80%99/


Egypt’s First ‘Sex Slave Marriage’
July 6, 2012 By Raymond Ibrahim

Sheikh Awn telling his concubine-bride what to say during their "nuptial vows," which included her "enslavement" to the self-proclaimed Sharia expert.

What is being dubbed as Egypt’s “first sex-slave marriage” took place mere days after the Muslim Brotherhood’s Muhammad Morsi was made president.

Last Monday, on the Egyptian TV show Al Haqiqa (“the Truth”), journalist Wael al-Ibrashi began the program by airing a video-clip of a man, Abd al-Rauf Awn, “marrying” his “slave.” Before making the woman, who had a non-Egyptian accent, repeat the Koran’s Surat al-Ikhlas after him, instead of saying the customary “I marry myself to you,” the woman said “I enslave myself to you,” and kissed him in front of an applauding audience.

Then, even though she was wearing a hijab, her owner-husband declared her forbidden from such trappings, commanding her to be stripped of them, so as “not to break Allah’s laws.” She took her veil and abaya off, revealing, certainly by Muslim standards, a promiscuous red dress (all the other women present were veiled). The man claps for her as the video-clip (which can be viewed here) ends.

The owner-husband, Abd al-Rauf Awn, then appeared on the show, identifying himself as an Islamic scholar and expert at Islamic jurisprudence who studied at Al Azhar. He gave several Islamic explanations to justify his “marriage,” from Islamic prophet Muhammad’s “sunna” or practice of “marrying” enslaved captive women, to Koran 4:3, which commands Muslim men to “Marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four… or what your right hands possess.”

For all practical purposes, and to avoid euphemisms, “what your right hands possess”—also known in Arabic as a melk al-yamin—is, according to Islamic doctrine and history, simply a sex-slave. Linguistic evidence further suggests that she is seen more as a possession than a human.

Even stripping the sex-slave of her hijab, the way Awn commanded his concubine-wife, has precedent. According to Islamic jurisprudence, whereas the free (Muslim) woman is mandated to be veiled behind a hijab, sex-slaves are mandated only to be covered from the navel to the knees—with everything else exposed. During the program Awn even explained how Caliph Omar, one of the first “righteous caliphs,” used to strip sex-slaves of their garments, whenever he saw them overly dressed in the marketplace.

Awn further explained that sex-slave marriage is ideal for today’s Egyptian society. He based his position on ijtihad, a recognized form of jurisprudence, whereby a Muslim scholar comes up with a new idea—one that is still rooted in the Koran and example of Muhammad—yet one that better fits the circumstances of contemporary society.Oh, and in case any of you want to cry about this less-than-reputable source, here's a tv report of the ceremony.

qjoxz9uRHVA

Direct quote: "I call on Muslim governments, I call on Dr. Mohamed Morsi, you are a Muslim and know what I say is correct. Why do we not legislate slavery as long as it was permitted during the prophet's time and his companions'?"

[cyu]

Would you say Muslims do not deserve democracy if they are Muslim? If that is not something you believe, then would you say Islam has no role in democracy? Would you say democracy is incompatible with Christianity and Judaism as well?

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

An interesting article from this week's Weekly Worker about Egypt:


Egypt: Not the next stage of the revolution

Continued economic decline sealed the fate of the Muslim Brotherhood, writes Yassamine Mather. But martial law also represents a defeat for the working class and democracy

Army: back in control
The July 3 army coup that overthrew president Mohamed Mursi will do nothing to end Egypt’s “state of tension and division” - as claimed by general Abdul Fatah Khalil al Sisi in his TV address. The commander of Egypt’s armed forces said that Mursi and the Muslim Brotherhood had “failed to meet the demands of the Egyptian people” and therefore the army had made good its pledge of two days earlier to step in. He announced the suspension of the Egyptian constitution pending new parliamentary and presidential elections, although he did not indicate any timescale.

Not insignificantly, however, following general Sisi’s address, both pope Tawadros II, the head of the Coptic church, and leading liberal oppositionist Mohammed El Baradei made short speeches about the new road map they had agreed with the army. Later it was reported that Mursi and his close allies had been detained at an unknown location. There are warrants out for the arrest of 300 other Muslim Brotherhood members. Meanwhile Mursi supporters took to the streets protesting against the army takeover.

Showing the contradictory nature of the anti-Mursi movement, there were huge cheers in Tahrir Square greeting the announcement of the coup. The demonstrations that had taken place in Cairo and other major Egyptian cities had been amongst the largest since December 2011 and the fall of the Mubarak regime. Women, men, secular and religious, many from the working class, had joined forces with the urban poor, as well as sections of the middle classes, to call for Mursi’s resignation. Even outside the presidential offices, used in recent weeks as a rallying point for Muslim Brotherhood supporters, anti-Mursi demonstrators had outnumbered those of the Brotherhood and the MB offices were stormed.

Anyone on the left tempted to hail the tamarod (rebellion) as the next stage of the revolution surely faces bitter disappointment - the army is not a progressive force and no ally of the working class and poor. But the call for the resignation of Mursi was just about the only unifying demand of the millions on the streets of Cairo, Alexandria and Luxor, so it was hardly surprising that news of the army coup was greeted so enthusiastically. Although the economy, high prices and mass unemployment were key factors driving forward the protests, not all demonstrators were for a genuinely secular democracy - they included some of the softer critics of the Mubarak era, who were among those calling for army intervention. A minority were young activists and workers around the April 6 movement, who put forward radical economic demands, as well as former Muslim Brotherhood supporters disenchanted by a year of failed promises.

Some Tahrir Square protestors carried placards with anti-US slogans, mainly prompted by a speech by US ambassador Anne Patterson, who had said: “Egypt needs stability to get its economic house in order, and more violence on the streets will do little more than add new names to the lists of martyrs.” Her remarks were interpreted as in effect support for the Muslim Brotherhood and she was widely condemned by its opponents.

Hopes

In December 2011, when I was in Egypt, large sections of the crowd in Tahrir Square - even those who were not supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood - had great hopes for the future: Mubarak’s trial was just starting, and there were promises of jobs, economic prosperity and social justice. So what has happened in the last 18 months?

The reality is that, for all the lofty phrases about defending the poor and seeking social justice, political Islam - be it in Egypt, Turkey or Iran - is failing dramatically, mainly because it cannot provide answers in the face of the global crisis of capital. Out of power it was easy for Islamist populists in the Middle East and north Africa to blame the westernised upper classes for poverty, the gap between rich and poor, and so on. But in power Mursi, Turkey’s Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and Iran’s Mahmoud Ahmadinejad followed exactly the same economic policies as their predecessors, both on a national and international level.

The demonstrations in Cairo and Istanbul and the abysmal failure of conservative Islamists in the recent presidential elections in Iran are all reactions to the same phenomenon: Islamist populists in power become corrupt capitalists, presiding over increasing inequality, unemployment and spiralling prices. In other words, economic devastation for the majority and huge fortunes for their cronies and allies.

Islamist economics was heralded as a “third way” that was “neither capitalist nor socialist”. The truth is that Islam, like all other religions, defends private property and has little to say about exploitation and surplus value. Islamic forms of taxation, khums and zakat, are supposed to result in egalitarian societies. In reality, these are voluntary taxes and their calculation is very much at the discretion of the rich themselves - very few, if any, Muslim capitalists pay the stipulated rate (one fifth of annual income). Abolition of interest is also supposed to help the poor, but it is simply replaced by ‘set charges’ in Islamic banks and financial institutions. In this, as in so many other aspects of Islamic economics, the difference with western capitalism is more in terminology than content.

As with followers of other religions, the only promises made by Islamists that are not immediately broken relate to the afterlife: the poor will be compensated for exploitation on earth, for they will end up in heaven. Mohammed said: “To those who reject our signs and arrogantly turn away from them, the doors of heaven will not be opened; nor will they enter paradise until the camel passes through the eye of a needle” (Soureh 7:40). These phrases will have a familiar ring to Christians: “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of god” (Matthew 19:24).

Depression

What we are witnessing in Cairo, as in Istanbul and Tehran, is indeed disillusionment with the false promises of political Islam and the collapse of its mass appeal. In reporting these events, bourgeois commentators keep talking of ‘middle class rebellion’, but in reality we are talking of the protests of the new working class, white-collar workers and the newly proletarianised middle classes. As the gap between the rich and the poor increases, clerks, teachers, engineers, doctors and many others are facing lower wages, unemployment or underemployment, inflation and increasing difficulty in making ends meet. No wonder so many took to the streets of Cairo, Istanbul and Tehran. Many are indeed the former supporters of Islamists duped by their promises of social justice. The global periphery is bearing the brunt of the economic depression, as companies move out of what are considered ‘risk areas’ in search of ever cheaper, less organised labour - and Islam in power is now widely regarded as part of the problem rather than the solution.

In Egypt, unemployment - one of the major sources of dissatisfaction in 2011-12 - is worse today. There is little new investment. Government jobs, considered to be safer and better paid than those in the private sector, are few and far between. Many, including women who have lost their public-sector jobs in the last 18 months, blame the Muslim Brotherhood for sacking them to provide work for its own members and supporters. The official rate of unemployment was 13.2% in the last quarter of 2012, but the real figure is much higher and youth unemployment is far worse. Eight out of 10 unemployed Egyptians are under the age of 30.

In other words, Egypt is facing an economic depression. In 2011 alone, direct foreign investment dropped by $325million, according to the Egyptian Central Bank, and the trade balance deficit reached $16.8 billion in 2012, compared to $15.6 billion the year before.1 The Egyptian currency is losing its value, making an already troubled economic situation worse, and Central Bank intervention - spending dollar reserves to maintain the currency above a certain value to enable the country to pay for the import of essential goods - has had little effect. Egyptians face an inflationary spiral. Food staples, such as rice and potatoes, are now too expensive for the majority of the population.

The Tamarod (Rebel) petition, apparently signed by 22 million Egyptians, sums up the situation:



Security has not been restored since the 2011 revolution that toppled Hosni Mubarak.
The poor have “no place” in society.
The government has had to “beg” the International Monetary Fund for a $4.8 billion loan to help shore up public finances.
There has been “no justice” for people killed by security forces during the uprising and at anti-government protests since then.
“No dignity is left” for Egyptians or their country.
The economy has “collapsed”, with growth poor and inflation high.
Egypt is “following in the footsteps” of the US.2
Tourism, which has played a significant role in the Egyptian economy, providing employment for three million people and 20% of the state’s foreign currency, is in a terrible state. This sector was already in trouble before the fall of Mubarak, partly because of the international economic crisis, but national income from it fell again in both 2011 and 2012. Tourism, once the source of income for many Egyptian families, has shed many workers, who now have to rely on relatives and friends for handouts to survive.

In January 2012, after my short visit to Egypt, I wrote: “The Muslim Brotherhood stood on a clear enough slogan: ‘Islam is the solution’.” The MB distributed meat (a rare commodity in Egypt) in the poorer districts of Cairo. Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf countries provided funding for the Brotherhood’s election campaigns; however, bribing sections of the population could only be a short-term solution to the catastrophic economic problems facing the country.

The response to poverty by the MB’s Freedom and Justice Party was a typical Islamic one: charity from the rich, in the form of donations distributed by the mosque to alleviate poverty; meanwhile, multimillionaire allies of the FJP like Khairat Al-Shater became economic strategists - one way of making sure that the liberal market economy of the ancien régime survived! The FJP’s long-term plan for a ‘mixed economy’ were summarised in its ‘renaissance project’, involving investment in health and education. However, most of the new investment funds have ended up in the pockets of major capitalists close to Mursi.

The FJP, like all other Islamist groups, claimed that income from zakat taxation would make a big difference. In reality there was no noticeable change compared to the Mubarak era. The same was true of Ahmadinejad’s election promises in 2005 and 2009. He was going to put Iran’s oil money “on the table of every citizen”. As it was, he ended up making the rich richer and the poor much poorer. The bribes given in the form of cash incentives to sections of hard-line Islamic supporters ran out once sanctions took effect and the government faced serious economic difficulties. Ahmadinejad’s cash might have helped when he needed demonstrators in 2009. However, his failure to maintain this level of bribing, as well as leaks by former allies about multi-million-dollar corruption amongst the inner circle of the presidential offices, left him and the conservatives isolated by 2011.

Cronyism

In Turkey, the AKP also came to power promising social justice, yet it presided over a period of privatisation, following the diktat of the International Monetary Fund. However, new business associations supported by the AKP, as well as an array of Islamic charitable organisations, allowed the party to consolidate its hold on the country’s economy through patronage and cronyism. AKP leaders embarked on major construction programmes that included a new airport for Istanbul and a canal to provide oil tankers with an alternative route to the Bosporus. The plans for a new shopping mall in Taksim Square in Istanbul were the latest in a long list of projects filling the pockets of AKP cronies.

However, by 2012 the miracle was over. The Turkish economy was in trouble, as the growth rate fell to 2% (from 9%) and the country’s foreign debt doubled, while at the same time its foreign currency deficit rose. In two years the ratio of debt to disposable income in Turkish households rose from 35% to 45%”.3 Last month’s protests and demonstrations also reflected the frustration at high rates of unemployment.

At a time of world economic recession, it is no surprise that capitalism’s destructive characteristics are fuelling protests throughout the world. The fact that millions have shown their anger towards Islamic rule in Egypt, as in Turkey and Iran, is positive. However, in the absence of an organised working class, at a time when the left is weak, there was always the danger that, for all the courage and determination of the demonstrators, it would be the right that would benefit. There was always the risk of a military coup.



http://cpgb.org.uk/home/weekly-worker/969/egypt-not-the-next-stage-of-the-revolution

[Tim Cornelis]

Salafism exterminated in Egypt(which would also mean a hard blow to the Mujahideen in Syria) and many liberals killed as well? How is that not a win-win? I know that the ISO is really friendly with both Islamists and liberals, but Marxists like me have no love for either. As far as I care, all of them belong dead in a mass grave somewhere. Their list of crimes is long enough to earn that fate hundreds of times over.

Man you so edgy, bet you're one of the cool kids huh.

[Le Socialiste]

words

Eh, I think on the whole the RS’ orientation toward the elections could’ve been refined beyond what you’ve outlined here - but I still think it’s a mistake to apply what are essentially borderline deterministic analyses on each and every instance of electoral participation (regardless of where it occurs). Your assertions still rest on the assumption that they’re all one and the same; rather, the SWP’s position regarding Labour is still a poor example when we look at the differences exhibited within the context(s) of the Egyptian revolution. You simply cannot equate the former with the latter. They’re not the same. Whatever one’s qualms regarding the RS’ position toward last year’s election, they still remain one of the leading revolutionary organizations on the ground in Egypt at this time.

What’s more, you’re arguing that the RS seemed beholden to the illusion of pressuring the Brotherhood, when it’s clear they harbored no such fantasies. It’s pretty clear the Muslim Brotherhood needed to be fully and irrefutably exposed for the neoliberal, opportunistic body it was in order for the revolution to progress. Did that have to manifest itself through their election to important positions within the Egyptian state? A case could made either way. I argue it wasn’t necessary, but I’m still hesitant to reject the RS’ analysis of the situation because it still contains some valid points.

Did the Revolutionary Socialists think the Brotherhood would “continue the revolution?” No, they didn’t, because the MB represents a clear, counterrevolutionary segment intent on assuming the state left behind by Mubarak. Their commitment to neoliberalism and policies of austerity were self-evident. All this is to say I think you’ve drawn a conclusion that severely misrepresents how the RS sought to present the Brotherhood as the reactionary, conservative force it was (and still is). Unfortunately, nothing has been proven, despite your claims to the contrary. Indeed, the fact that the Brotherhood has lost a substantial amount of support from its own base is a significant turn in the next phase of the revolution, one that was necessary in order for it to deepen and progress.

[Le Socialiste]

In other news, the military has been rounding up and arresting the leadership of the Muslim Brotherhood - including its 'supreme leader' Mohamed Badie for "inciting the killing of protesters."

More here (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/07/201374152811166923.html).

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Safe to say that the military just swept in to control and steer the popular movement to protect the status quo. It's going to be interesting to see what happens when the workers get tired of these rulers too if they don't pass the torch on soon, this seems like it could be the bourgoeis' last ditch effort to get things under control. All of the liberals and even some reactionary elements support it right? Very interesting...

[cyu]

Morsi came to power in pretty much the same way - with the military holding all the real power while the political process worked itself out. And when they felt like throwing out Morsi, they claimed that right for themselves and used support of the general population as an excuse that would play well in the media.

Similarly for the next government, the military hopes to play the same role - that of the power-broker that has final say over who comes into play, and will throw them out using whatever excuse necessary if it deems the new government no longer meets with its approval.

The only way for that to change, would be to restructure the military before the top generals can regroup and reconsolidate.

[Paul Pott]

Egypt's Goldfish Memory:

http://latuffcartoons.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/egypt-memory.gif?w=885

[blake 3:17]

Jonathan Steele against it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/03/egypt-coup-ruinous-army

Pretty good one from Fisk: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/the-army-is-built-from-both-sides-of-egypts-divide--yet-must-now-keep-them-apart-8686257.html

[Delenda Carthago]

Comment of the Press Office on the Developments in Egypt




The people’s mobilizations in Egypt very rapidly demonstrate that the political forces which prevailed in the so-called Arab Spring disappointed them. The people’s interests cannot be satisfied either by the Morsi government and the Muslim Brotherhood, which imposed an anti-worker political line to support the monopolies, or the section of the bourgeois class that at this moment is supporting the military coup.

The crisis in the bourgeois political system of Egypt reveals the sharpening of the contradictions amongst section of the bourgeois class regarding the management of power, trapping the people’s indignation and discontent. It is also connected to the competition of the imperialist centres over the safeguarding of the natural resources of the wider region and the energy routes.

Egypt’s bourgeois class possesses alternative solutions in order to secure its interests, the role of the army and the so-called religious movements are some of these solutions. The working class and poor popular strata must not restrict themselves only to the issue of whether one or the other government must leave, they must not be trapped in alleged transitional solutions which are preparing the next anti-people government.

The developments demonstrate that, in order for the people to impose their strength and interests, the mass popular struggles are not sufficient on their own, but they must aim at overthrowing the power of the monopolies in order for pro-people developments to be timetabled.

Athens 4/7/2012
PRESS OFFICE OF THE CC OF THE KKE

[Devrim]

Whatever one’s qualms regarding the RS’ position toward last year’s election, they still remain one of the leading revolutionary organizations on the ground in Egypt at this time.

There is nothing at all revolutionary about the IST current. This is not an isolated mistake of genuine revolutionary group, but a consistent international policy. The IST call for workers to support such reactionary parties as the UK Labour Party, the MB in Egypt, and the AKP in Turkey. It is not merely a bad call. It is intrinsic to their politics.

Devrim

[Invader Zim]

According to Pew, 84% of Egyptian Muslims also seem to favor the death penalty for apostasy.

http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/2010-muslim-01-13.png

Interesting, are those findings from 2010? Is there any raw data available from Pew online? It would be interesting to know who was sampled, how many people were sampled, and what the methodology used was. It would also be interesting to see if there has been a shift of opinion in the intervening years.

[L1NKS]

If there had ever been any doubts that Egypt now is a real democracy, the Egyptians erased them. By moving into the streets once again, showing that whoever tries to fuck them over, will be swept out of office immediately, the Egyptians displayed true passion for democracy. Western state officials are now concerned over what they perceive to be a "crisis of democracy". The main problem to them: The army just does not want to disrupt democracy and takes neither interest nor pride in gunning down their fellow citizens.

The Egyptians don't need our advice. We need theirs.

[Invader Zim]

The army just does not want to disrupt democracy and takes neither interest nor pride in gunning down their fellow citizens.

The military establishment, undoubtedly, serves its own class interests - which are divorced from those of the workers. Others in this thread have outlined this point in much more detail already.

[L1NKS]

The military establishment, undoubtedly, serves its own class interests - which are divorced from those of the workers.
That I did not deny. However, the important thing is, whilst the military might be opportunist, it does not block the manifestation of a more meaningful democratic process. And as time goes by, and conflict over the position of the military as a state within the state may arise, the Egyptians will confront this issue. If that means bloodshed, remains to be seen. It is up to the Egyptians to decide upon what kind of state they want.

[Sasha]

afraid of Hamas now arming the MB instead of visa-versa the army has been begun to destroy the smuggle tunnels towards Gaza: http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/africa/6460-egyptian-army-demolishes-tunnels-with-gaza

*waiting for resident anti-imp heads exploding with cognitive dissonance overload*

[Fred]

Astounding that in a forum of folks that call themselves revolutionary, many are caught up in the most formalistic superficial analysis. A class analysis says that the ouster of Morsi in and of itself means little. The masses asserting power in this way shows only that unpopular governments can be toppled -- not exactly a revelation. But one can argue that the army has been in charge the whole time. The working class has not emerged as an independent player in this struggle. When they do, then we might see something positive. Of course, if they are led by reformist opportunists. . . .

[hatzel]

afraid of Hamas now arming the MB instead of visa-versa the army has been begun to destroy the smuggle tunnels towards Gaza: http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/africa/6460-egyptian-army-demolishes-tunnels-with-gaza

*waiting for resident anti-imp heads exploding with cognitive dissonance overload*

They've also shut the border crossing (http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/2/8/75762/World/Region/Egypt-closes-Gaza-border-amid-security-concerns.aspx) at Rafah with the Islamists kicking off in Sinai...

[Paul Pott]

Our two favorite teams are communism and whoever's fighting Israel.

The Egyptian army is nothing but a stooge of the US. Not surprising that it is an enemy of Palestine, even more so than Mursi was.

[Paul Pott]

Army fires on anti-coup demonstrators:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/07/05/3486009/islamists-protest-in-egypt-demanding.html

[Sasha]

Our two favorite teams are communism and whoever's fighting Israel.



Im afraid your not even joking...

[khad]

afraid of Hamas now arming the MB instead of visa-versa the army has been begun to destroy the smuggle tunnels towards Gaza: http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/africa/6460-egyptian-army-demolishes-tunnels-with-gaza

*waiting for resident anti-imp heads exploding with cognitive dissonance overload*
Are you enjoying this as much as I am?

[Sasha]

Enjoying? No. I never enjoy workers getting killed and people suffering. But I do have some idel hopes that some people here at a certain point understand that it never matters which rulers are in charge just that there is struggle, because only in struggle the seeds of our real liberation can germinate...

[RadioRaheem84]

Twitter Helped To Distort Egyptian Protests

August 12, 2011 4:00 AM

An assistant professor at UCLA recently returned from Egypt, where he researched the effect of social media on the movement to bring down former President Hosni Mubarak. Ramesh Srinivasan tells Steve Inskeep the notion that the revolution was driven by social media is vastly overstated.

http://www.npr.org/2011/08/12/139570720/twitter-created-echo-chamber-during-egyptian-protests

INSKEEP: Do you think this revolution would have happened without social media at all, given that no large percentage of protestors seemed to be using social media, in your view?

Prof. SRINIVASAN: I'm convinced the revolution would have happened without social media. The really interesting question here is when. There were a number of institutional factors, factors in the economic climate, factors around the political climate and just the mobilization. People had been hitting the streets with and without Facebook for up to seven, eight years, and this was the time people really had to make it happen, with or without social media.

What the?? Why is this even questioned? Of course it happened and would've happened without Twitter and Facebook. People can mobilize without the social media idiocy.

I fucking hate liberals because they sure as hell made it seem like Facebook and Social media made this revolution and not the the people on the ground facing the State face to face. While the yuppies tweeting and updating their profile status about hearing this or that or watching it from their balconies.

It's shit like this that makes me irate when liberals think they're guiding social movements. They literally think they're leading this cosmic force of progress through social media, non-profits, NGOs, social enterprises, etc. Meanwhile the reality of the ground states that the people want radical social change.

[khad]

I fucking hate liberals because they sure as hell made it seem like Facebook and Social media made this revolution and not the the people on the ground facing the State face to face. While the yuppies tweeting and updating their profile status about hearing this or that or watching it from their balconies.

It's shit like this that makes me irate when liberals think they're guiding social movements. They literally think they're leading this cosmic force of progress through social media, non-profits, NGOs, social enterprises, etc. Meanwhile the reality of the ground states that the people want radical social change.

Tired of the sanitized media bubble? Have a dose of proletarian reality:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/7453_279043012234566_1452699061_n.jpg

Ikhwanist lynched in Zaqaziq

[Paul Pott]

At least 17 pro-Morsi demonstrators have been killed today.

It seems like in the space of a year popular opinion has swung dramatically against Islamists in the Arab awakening countries, especially Egypt and Syria.

[RadioRaheem84]

Tired of the sanitized media bubble? Have a dose of proletarian reality:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/7453_279043012234566_1452699061_n.jpg

Ikhwanist lynched in Zaqaziq

What is ikhwanist? I looked it up and I couldn't tell if it was a political group, a religious group or a shoot off of the MB.

[Tim Cornelis]

At least 17 pro-Morsi demonstrators have been killed today.

It seems like in the space of a year popular opinion has swung dramatically against Islamists in the Arab awakening countries, especially Egypt and Syria.

Has it though? By all accounts, popular support for Islamists is rising dramatically in Syria due to the professionalism, aid, and effectiveness of Islamist armed groups, and 50% voted for the Muslim Brotherhood, meaning 50% did not want Morsi as president. This meant that the opposition could already rally millions in 2011. I don't think the support for the Muslim Brotherhood has diminished that much, and if it has it's because of the economic and social conditions, not Islamism per se. If the MB can exploit the "external enemy" card well, they may even win next elections again.

[khad]

What is ikhwanist? I looked it up and I couldn't tell if it was a political group, a religious group or a shoot off of the MB.
Ikhwan = Arabic for brothers. Guess what I'm referring to.

[RadioRaheem84]

Islamism is a big force in the region. The west uses it when it suits their interests in any area where leftist forces can be suppressed.

They're not a majority I believe in most nations except possibly Pakistan.

[RadioRaheem84]

Wow the pic khad posted is crazy! I don't condone the lynching of anyone but I can see that the fight is not some clean uprising fostered by social media. That thinking is absurd.

[Paul Pott]

Tired of the sanitized media bubble? Have a dose of proletarian reality:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/7453_279043012234566_1452699061_n.jpg

Ikhwanist lynched in Zaqaziq


When was this?

[khad]

When was this?
Today

[blake 3:17]

afraid of Hamas now arming the MB instead of visa-versa the army has been begun to destroy the smuggle tunnels towards Gaza: http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/africa/6460-egyptian-army-demolishes-tunnels-with-gaza

*waiting for resident anti-imp heads exploding with cognitive dissonance overload*


There is the distinct possibility that Morsi was ousted for being too close to Hamas.

Also read today that he had been helping recruit for anti-Assad forces.

[Sasha]

Nah, the palestinian cause has broad support under the Egypt population, this was an internal affair.

[blake 3:17]

Nah, the palestinian cause has broad support under the Egypt population, this was an internal affair.


Fatah calls on Palestinians to overthrow Hamas in wake of Morsi's fall
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
04/07/2013
Fatah expresses hope that the ouster of Morsi will aid efforts to end divisions among the Palestinians.

Palestinian Authority leaders on Thursday expressed joy over the downfall of Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi’s regime, with some calling on Palestinians in the Gaza Strip to follow suit and topple the Hamas government.

Palestinian analysts predicted that the collapse of the Muslim Brotherhood regime in Egypt would undermine Hamas, which in the past year has been emboldened by Morsi’s rise to power.

PA President Mahmoud Abbas was one of the first Arab leaders to congratulate the Egyptians on the ouster of Morsi.

In a letter to acting President Adli Mansour, Abbas congratulated him on the appointment, expressing hope that he would fulfill the aspirations of the Egyptian people to “live in freedom, dignity and stability.”

Abbas praised the Egyptian army and its commanders for preserving the country’s security and preventing it from slipping toward the abyss.

Tayeb Abdel Rahim, a top aide to Abbas, saluted the Egyptian army for the “wonderful achievement.”

Referring to Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood, Abdel Rahim hailed the Egyptian army and people for refusing to be intimidated by those who “sow sedition, civil war and sectarianism.”

Jamal Nazzal, a senior Fatah representative, called on Palestinians to overthrow Hamas in the wake of the events in Egypt.

Fatah spokesman Ahmed Assaf expressed hope that the ouster of Morsi would aid efforts to end divisions among the Palestinians.

“We hope that the historic victory of the Egyptian people’s will would help our people get rid of the destructive division and restore national unity,” Assaf said in an indirect reference to Hamas’s control over the Gaza Strip.

Several other Fatah officials expressed hope that Palestinians in the Gaza Strip would wage a revolution against Hamas.

“Now it’s Gaza’s turn to get rid of the Muslim Brotherhood branch,” said one official. “The dark era of political Islam has ended. The era of hypocrisy and lies has ended and Gaza will soon witness its own revolution against Hamas.”

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Fatah-calls-on-Palestinians-to-overthrow-Hamas-in-wake-of-Morsis-fall-318792

[Paul Pott]

It will happen if Hamas keeps avoiding new elections.

[ckaihatsu]

---





Bonapartist Coup in Egypt!

Sungur Savran

The near equality in strength of the two camps contending for power in Egypt led the army to stage a Bonapartist coup. It is not only the recent episode of unprecedented crowds in the millions coming out on 30 June that has made the army move. This struggle between the Muslim Brotherhood government of now deposed President Mohamed Morsi, on the one hand, and the opposition, represented by the National Salvation Front, and more recently by the Tamerod (Rebel) movement, on the other, has been going on since last November. This is, in fact, the third wave of spectacular demonstrations by the opposition within a cycle of the Egyptian revolution that has been going on since November.




[T]hrough its coup the army has averted, at least for the moment, an impending civil war between the two camps. A civil war is always a grave danger for armies, not least because it may lead to a fatal division within its own ranks. But all this pales into insignificance when compared with the real import of the coup: this coup has pre-empted a possible revolution by the people! The power displayed by the masses on 30 June, preceded as this was by six months of feverish activity, demonstrations, mass rallies, marches, challenges against curfews etc. would scare any ruling class anywhere around the world. With this step the army has skilfully prevented a possible victory of the people's revolution and in the process received the support of a significant portion of the masses. This Bonapartist coup is then, in its innermost essence, a revolution hijacked!




http://www.socialistproject.ca/bullet/848.php

[billydan]

Does Egypt have a socialist faction?

[Paul Pott]

Egypt has several important left-wing and social democratic groups with strong presence among the students. They were very important in the 2011 uprising.

[Paul Pott]

Big massacre in Cairo this morning, 51 pro-Morsi demonstrators killed and hundreds wounded by the army and the police.

MB has called more protests, and the Al-Nour party has quit the junta.

[TheEmancipator]

Big massacre in Cairo this morning, 51 pro-Morsi demonstrators killed and hundreds wounded by the army and the police.

MB has called more protests, and the Al-Nour party has quit the junta.

I think that last statement suggests to me that they think that the MB will either win the elections and deliver a ruthless crackdown towards the opposition or plunge Egypt into Civil War.

[B5C]

Looks like the United States was behind this coup:


US bankrolled anti-Morsi activists

Berkeley, United States - President Barack Obama recently stated the United States was not taking sides as Egypt's crisis came to a head with the military overthrow of the democratically elected president.

But a review of dozens of US federal government documents shows Washington has quietly funded senior Egyptian opposition figures who called for toppling of the country's now-deposed president Mohamed Morsi.

Documents obtained by the Investigative Reporting Program at UC Berkeley show the US channeled funding through a State Department programme to promote democracy in the Middle East region. This programme vigorously supported activists and politicians who have fomented unrest in Egypt, after autocratic president Hosni Mubarak was ousted in a popular uprising in February 2011.

The State Department's programme, dubbed by US officials as a "democracy assistance" initiative, is part of a wider Obama administration effort to try to stop the retreat of pro-Washington secularists, and to win back influence in Arab Spring countries that saw the rise of Islamists, who largely oppose US interests in the Middle East.

Activists bankrolled by the programme include an exiled Egyptian police officer who plotted the violent overthrow of the Morsi government, an anti-Islamist politician who advocated closing mosques and dragging preachers out by force, as well as a coterie of opposition politicians who pushed for the ouster of the country's first democratically elected leader, government documents show.

Information obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, interviews, and public records reveal Washington's "democracy assistance" may have violated Egyptian law, which prohibits foreign political funding.

It may also have broken US government regulations that ban the use of taxpayers' money to fund foreign politicians, or finance subversive activities that target democratically elected governments.

'Bureau for Democracy'

Washington's democracy assistance programme for the Middle East is filtered through a pyramid of agencies within the State Department. Hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars is channeled through the Bureau for Democracy, Human Rights and Labor (DRL), The Middle East Partnership Initiative (MEPI), USAID, as well as the Washington-based, quasi-governmental organisation the National Endowment for Democracy (NED).

In turn, those groups re-route money to other organisations such as the International Republican Institute, the National Democratic Institute (NDI), and Freedom House, among others. Federal documents show these groups have sent funds to certain organisations in Egypt, mostly run by senior members of anti-Morsi political parties who double as NGO activists.

The Middle East Partnership Initiative - launched by the George W Bush administration in 2002 in a bid to influence politics in the Middle East in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks - has spent close to $900m on democracy projects across the region, a federal grants database shows.

USAID manages about $1.4bn annually in the Middle East, with nearly $390m designated for democracy promotion, according to the Washington-based Project on Middle East Democracy (POMED).

The US government doesn't issue figures on democracy spending per country, but Stephen McInerney, POMED's executive director, estimated that Washington spent some $65m in 2011 and $25m in 2012. He said he expects a similar amount paid out this year.

A main conduit for channeling the State Department's democracy funds to Egypt has been the National Endowment for Democracy. Federal documents show NED, which in 2011 was authorised an annual budget of $118m by Congress, funneled at least $120,000 over several years to an exiled Egyptian police officer who has for years incited violence in his native country.

This appears to be in direct contradiction to its Congressional mandate, which clearly states NED is to engage only in "peaceful" political change overseas.

More...
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/07/2013710113522489801.html

[cyu]

Egypt has been a "foreign policy colony" of the American regime for decades. That's why they're so eager not to lose this powerhouse that they've invested so much in over the years.

Same applies to Bahrain.

[GerrardWinstanley]

Another view of the army firing on protestors than the one used by the Muslim Brotherhood.nelzqGD5UeoFirst visible gunshot coming from the pro-Morsi crowd at 1:29

Intense fire from pro-Morsi protestors starting at 4:00 (wonder where they got those weapons)

No sign of innocent muslims in prayer being fired on.

[khad]

Intense fire from pro-Morsi protestors starting at 4:00 (wonder where they got those weapons)

No sign of innocent muslims in prayer being fired on.
Libya. Doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

[Paul Pott]

And if there is an islamist insurgency in Egypt in the future, we know where they will operate from...

[cyu]

Black propagadists, false flag attacks, all this stuff is standard fare when it comes to political killing.

Trying to decide which side or sides is right or wrong is a useless affair, since there will always be idiots, dupes, and fakers on all sides. What matters are the principles you support and whether those principles have been applied to the situation you are discussing, since you can never tell which side anybody is really working for - but you can tell whether their actions are done according to what you would do in a similar situation.

[khad]

Hamas has been infiltrating Sinai and stepping up its activities in support of Morsi--killing little girls, beheading Christians, the usual good stuff.


Dozens of Hamas Terrorists Killed and Detained by Egyptian Army (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4403706,00.html)

After the overthrow of Egypt 's Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas appers to be the next target: An Egyptian military source told the London-based Arabic-language al-Hayat newspaper on Thursday morning that security forces had killed and arrested some 200 gunmen in the Sinai Peninsula.

He said 32 Hamas members were killed and 45 activists were detained. "Hamas is flaring up the situation in Sinai after (former Egyptian President) Mohamed Morsi's ouster," he explained.

"We have detected movements of Hamas activists cooperating with jihadists in Sinai. We killed and arrested some of them," the source said, admitting that the army was finding it difficult to gain control of the situation.

"They enter Sinai through the tunnels to carry out attacks, along with others, and then return to Gaza through the tunnels. They take advantage of the surface and hide in the mountains."

Stability in Sinai has been shaken since the 2011 revolution and has recently deteriorated once again. On Saturday, shortly after Morsi was toppled, dozens of radical terror activists affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood movement left the Gaza Strip and headed for Sinai in a bid to fight the Egyptian army. Since then, the terror activists have participated in violent clashes in El-Arish and have even attacked some Egyptian army posts.

The Egyptian military spokesman said Wednesday that gunmen in northern Sinai had tried to assassinate the commander of the Second Field Army, General Ahmed Wasfy, in the in Sheikh Zuwaid area. A girl passing by was killed in an exchange of fire between the gunmen and the convoy guarding the senior officer. Waspy told local media that he was not hurt.

Earlier this month, before the military coup, the Egyptian army moved forces in the Sinai area in coordination with Israel, in order to operate against terrorist cells in the area.

The British Times reported Thursday morning that the Egyptian army would ask Israel for approval to launch a large counterterrorist offensive against Islamic extremists in Sinai, suspending the peace treaty between the two countries. Coordination with Israel is needed as the peninsula is a demilitarized area according to the peace accord.

According to the report, jihadist groups have exploited the political crisis in Cairo by attacking Egyptian and Israeli targets in Sinai over recent days. As part of the Egyptian operation, thousands of troops will be sent into the region to crush the threat from terrorists, including al-Qaeda affiliates.

Fighting gunmen in Sinai is in the interest of both Israel and Egypt, especially in light of the increased attacks in the area. On Sunday, armed men launched a series of attacks on security checkpoints in the northern Sinai towns of Sheikh Zuweid and El-Arish close to the Egyptian border with Israel and the Gaza Strip, and one soldier was killed.

Last Saturday, gunmen shot dead a Coptic Christian priest in northern Sinai. The shooting in the coastal city was one of several attacks believed to be by Islamist insurgents that included firing at four military checkpoints in the region.

Saturday's attacks on checkpoints took place in al-Mahajer and al-Safaa in Rafah, as well as Sheikh Zuwaid and al-Kharouba. The violence followed attacks in which five police officers were killed in El-Arish.



Christian man's headless corpse found in Sinai (http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/2013/07/12/15--Christian-man-s-headless-corpse-found-in-Egypt-.html)

Cairo, 11 July (AKI) - A Christian shopkeeper's headless corpse was found in the Sinai Peninsula on Thursday, the second slaying of Christian there since the military deposed Egypt's Islamist president Mohammed Morsi on 3 July.

Arabic satellite TV channel al-Arabiya cited Egyptian security sources as saying that 60-year-old Magdy Habashi had been abducted last Saturday in the city of Sheikh Zweid. His remains were found in a cemetery.

A Coptic Christian priest, Mina Abboud Sharobeen, was shot dead by gunmen on 6 July in the flashpoint city al-Arish in the northern Sinai.

Investigators suspect Islamic extremists are behind the two murders.

Egypt's Christians make up around 10 percent of the country's population and have frequently been targeted by Islamists.

Islamist extremists are believed to have shot dead a 28-year-old man who ran a bar selling alcohol the centre of al-Arish in May.

The ousting of Egypt's longterm president Hosni Mubarak in a popular revolt in 2011 emboldened militant Islamists who have carried out a number of attacks in the lawless North Sinai and across the border in Israel.

[Paul Pott]

Curiously enough, Hamas denies everything and denies that any of its members have been killed.