Muslim mobs ravage Hindu villages in west Bengal

[Zostrianos]

This only recently came to light. The Indian media was apparently forbidden from talking about the incident, as there's laws against criticizing Islam in India.

http://www.chakranews.com/muslims-torch-and-loot-200-hindu-homes-in-west-bengal/3645

Amidst a near-complete media blackout and distressing silence from statutory bodies like the National Human Rights (http://www.chakranews.com/tag/human-rights) Commission, a serious communal flare up has taken place in South 24 Parganas district of West Bengal, with more than 200 Hindu homes torched and looted in four villages — Naliakhali, Herobhanga, Gopalpur and Goladogra, in the Canning police station area, from the wee hours of February 19. Almost two dozen Hindu shops were fully damaged and looted in Joynagar police station area; many shopkeepers have fled and members of the besieged community have begun to send their womenfolk away.
Although triggered by a purely local incident, the looming Panchayat elections in the State seem to have given vested interests an opportunity for a show of strength. Competitive communalism is in the air, with the two major political formations fighting to capture the huge Muslim vote in the State.

By all accounts, the trouble began late in the night of February 18-19 when Maulvi Rohul Kuddus (resident of Ghutiyari Shariff, South 24 Parganas) and Abdul Wahab (resident of village Moujpur, Joynagar) were returning from Jaamtala Haat in Kultali after attending a religious congregation. Maulvi Kuddus was driving a motorcycle when the duo was attacked by unidentified culprits on the Naliakhali main road. Maulvi Rohul Kuddus was shot dead and his aide Abdul Wahab, injured.
The motive for the murder is unclear. Reports in a prominent newspaper however, claim that the Maulvi was carrying Rs 11.5 lakhs, which was taken away by the assailants. Other sources say that huge unaccounted funds are circulating in the region and are being used to buy unlicensed firearms and ammunition, under the patronage of political parties.
As rumours spread, large numbers of Muslims began to descend upon the area in trucks. The headmaster of a local school reportedly incited the mob, and soon Hindu homes began to be attacked from the early hours of February 19. The violence quickly escalated with the police and administration initially at a loss. According to local reports, police officers Anup Samaddar and Anup Ghoash of the Canning police station were seriously injured and two police vehicles torched in the turmoil. The unrest has spread to Sandeshkhali area of North 24 Parganas.
Hindu Samhati leader Tapan Ghosh, who is monitoring the situation with volunteers, told a local television channel that after the Maulvi’s body was found, Naliakhali village, which was closest to the site of the crime, was attacked and looted, the village temple damaged, and five women molested. As the police party was initially outnumbered, the mob torched homes with impunity, pouring petrol and setting them ablaze in a three hour rampage. Naliakhali villagers claimed they had no knowledge about the murder and the reasons for the attack on them until the police arrived.
Neighbouring villages were also attacked, Hindus (http://www.chakranews.com/tag/hindus) beaten and their shops destroyed. The mob set up roadblocks at several places such as Natunhat, Priyor More (Joynagar ps), Bhangankhali, Hospital More (Basanti ps).

http://www.chakranews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Hundreds-of-Hindu-families-rendered-homeless-in-area-of-South-24-Pgs-district.-Hindus-have-taken-shelter-at-the-Baikunthpur-primary-school-under-police-protection.-Date-%E2%80%93-19-Feb.-2013.jpg

[Os Cangaceiros]

Yes there's a pretty ugly history of violence between Hindus and Muslims in India

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Considering the history of anti-muslim chauvinism by the hands of Hindu nationalists, I'm pleasantly surprised that they have legislation this progressive. For once I have a nice thing to say about the Indian government!

Still, this goes kinda far, I mean, it's not like it's slander to say a bunch of Muslims decided to attack a Hindu village, since it actually happened. And I don't think these sort of laws are really what is needed, I mean, there are plenty of valid criticisms of islam, you know, that it is an ultra oppressive backward religion that will hopefully be radically transformed through the fire of social revolution (just like all faiths). I'd be better if these laws just banned racist slurs, and discrimination which from what I've heard is still quite real despite these laws and ought to be addressed.

[Zostrianos]

Considering the history of anti-muslim chauvinism by the hands of Hindu nationalists, I'm pleasantly surprised that they have legislation this progressive. For once I have a nice thing to say about the Indian government!

If only they extended that law to include all religions, but no. The Indian government is notoriously anti-Hindu, and while Muslims are often discriminated against, they also have privileges. The Indian education system forbids mention of the atrocities committed by Islamic conquerors in its history curriculum. The media also reports extensively when Hindus commit violence, but not when Muslims or Christians are the aggressors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias_in_South_Asia#India). The genocide of Hindus in Kashmir by Islamists is also a taboo subject in India.

See also here, if you think India is a secular country, think again:
http://www.chakranews.com/10-shades-of-indian-secularism-hindus-largest-minority-in-india/3222

An instance of our secularism is the 1978 directive to NCERT which instructs publishers andeducationists to erase all medieval history which paints a picture of clash between natives and invading muslims in that era. Consequently, we have a chapter each from Akbar to Aurangzeb, but Shivaji and Maharana Pratap are squeezed into a paragraph each in history books. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, discredited Aryan Invasion Theory is still taught in Indian schools. The history books do not cover the Mahabharata despite a plethora of archaeological evidence available to conclusively establish its historicity.

[ind_com]

If only they extended that law to include all religions, but no. The Indian government is notoriously anti-Hindu, and while Muslims are often discriminated against, they also have privileges. The Indian education system forbids mention of the atrocities committed by Islamic conquerors in its history curriculum. The media also reports extensively when Hindus commit violence, but not when Muslims or Christians are the aggressors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias_in_South_Asia#India). The genocide of Hindus in Kashmir by Islamists is also a taboo subject in India.

See also here, if you think India is a secular country, think again:
http://www.chakranews.com/10-shades-of-indian-secularism-hindus-largest-minority-in-india/3222

An instance of our secularism is the 1978 directive to NCERT which instructs publishers andeducationists to erase all medieval history which paints a picture of clash between natives and invading muslims in that era. Consequently, we have a chapter each from Akbar to Aurangzeb, but Shivaji and Maharana Pratap are squeezed into a paragraph each in history books. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, discredited Aryan Invasion Theory is still taught in Indian schools. The history books do not cover the Mahabharata despite a plethora of archaeological evidence available to conclusively establish its historicity.

The riots did happen, but what's with this frequent referring to a known Hindu fundamentalist newspaper?

And please don't claim that the Indian government is anti-Hindu or Muslims or Dalits have privileges; that is equivalent to racist nuts claiming that the American government is anti-white and that black people have privileges. The Indian government does whatever is possible to protect a religion that explicitly condemns the majority of the population to slavery.

[Zostrianos]

The riots did happen, but what's with this frequent referring to a known Hindu fundamentalist newspaper?


Chakra News is a Hindu fundamentalist site? That's news to me

[ind_com]

Chakra News is a Hindu fundamentalist site? That's news to me

Even if you're not aware of this from beforehand or haven't checked out some of their reports and analysis, the paper's name itself should seem suspicious. I mean, if Chakra does not refer to a weapon of Hindu gods, then it should mean either circle or conspiracy. Why the hell would someone name a newspaper that? :D

[Zostrianos]

Even if you're not aware of this from beforehand or haven't checked out some of their reports and analysis, the paper's name itself should seem suspicious. I mean, if Chakra does not refer to a weapon of Hindu gods, then it should mean either circle or conspiracy. Why the hell would someone name a newspaper that? :D

It's a Hindu news website, like there are so many others focusing on specific religions, groups, etc. "Hindu" does not equal "Hindu fundamentalist". Let's not tarnish a whole religion (a tolerant religion I might add) because of a few right wing degenerates who in no way represent it.

[ind_com]

It's a Hindu news website, like there are so many others focusing on specific religions, groups, etc. "Hindu" does not equal "Hindu fundamentalist". Let's not tarnish a whole religion (a tolerant religion I might add) because of a few right wing degenerates who in no way represent it.

First of all, say, a 'white' newspaper in a white dominated country, or an Islamic newspaper in an Islamic country is usually not moderate. In fact, any source that openly affiliates to the dominating community, also automatically serves as their propaganda machinery.

Secondly, the argument that only right wing degenerates make the normally docile-in-practice religion look bad is not a valid argument in case of Hinduism. Most of the Hindu population is actually from the lower castes, whose members are not even allowed in places of worships and often do not consciously identify with Hinduism. Hinduism in practice is defined by the practices of the three upper castes who are inherently discriminating against the lower castes. Parts of Hindu theory also justify this:

Killing of a woman, a Shudra or an atheist is not sinful. - Manusmruti

Some tolerant religion, eh?

[Zostrianos]

Secondly, the argument that only right wing degenerates make the normally docile-in-practice religion look bad is not a valid argument in case of Hinduism. Most of the Hindu population is actually from the lower castes, whose members are not even allowed in places of worships and often do not consciously identify with Hinduism. Hinduism in practice is defined by the practices of the three upper castes who are inherently discriminating against the lower castes. Parts of Hindu theory also justify this:

Killing of a woman, a Shudra or an atheist is not sinful. - Manusmruti

Some tolerant religion, eh?

It's worth mentioning that the Manusmrti is full of contradictory information, including its views on women, so it can hardly be held up as a reliable source of Hindu dogma.
As for the caste system, that indeed is a horrendous abomination with undue influence on Indian society, but again not all Hindus adhere to it, and some reject it entirely, the Sadhus for instance.

[ind_com]

It's worth mentioning that the Manusmrti is full of contradictory information, including its views on women, so it can hardly be held up as a reliable source of Hindu dogma.

If being full of contradictory statements is a valid reason for not considering one of the most popular Hindu scriptures as a reliable source of Hindu dogma, then we should separate the Bible and Quran from Christian and Islamic dogma as well.


As for the caste system, that indeed is a horrendous abomination with undue influence on Indian society, but again not all Hindus adhere to it, and some reject it entirely,

Most upper caste Hindus still follow the caste system. Even among those who are from upper caste backgrounds but formally dissociate themselves from the Hindu religion, there is a tendency to oppose the quota system for Dalits.


the Sadhus for instance.

How many low caste sadhus have you seen so far? Other than some cannibalistic lunatic sects, sadhus actually live very luxurious lives compared to most Indians, and visibly adhere to the caste hierarchy. A low caste person is hardly ever allowed to become a sadhu.

[dodger]

The old man and Ma were in India during the Muslim/Hindu killings. Post WW2. Unspeakable. Not for the ears of a child. He witnessed a whole train full of refugees--Hindu/Sikh/Muslim, I know not--throats slit. I overheard him say "thought I has seen everything, fighting Japs!" We don't want to see those days back again. Many who post here will already know who and why these apparently senseless killings erupt, over the years. Who stands to gain. So sad to see those pictures.

[Zostrianos]

The old man and Ma were in India during the Muslim/Hindu killings. Post WW2. Unspeakable. Not for the ears of a child. He witnessed a whole train full of refugees--Hindu/Sikh/Muslim, I know not--throats slit. I overheard him say "thought I has seen everything, fighting Japs!" We don't want to see those days back again. Many who post here will already know who and why these apparently senseless killings erupt, over the years. Who stands to gain. So sad to see those pictures.

There's still hope. There's reports of Muslims helping build Hindu temples, and Hindus working on Mosques. I found this, just in the last few months:

http://zeenews.india.com/news/bihar/muslims-help-hindus-build-shiva-temple-in-bihar_811323.html

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-12-09/kochi/35705205_1_temple-committee-bigger-temple-vadavathoor

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/hindus-help-to-build-mosque-in-karnataka-village/132027-3.html

Crazy but thankfully true. If only they got rid of the fanatics...

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Poimandres - most Hindus and Muslims I met get along quite well. The problem is that many people are easily manipulated by populists into hating one another when populations become alienated from one another socially and economically.


First of all, say, a 'white' newspaper in a white dominated country, or an Islamic newspaper in an Islamic country is usually not moderate. In fact, any source that openly affiliates to the dominating community, also automatically serves as their propaganda machinery.


If there's a serious act of communitarian violence against Hindus, I see nothing wrong with Hindus reporting on that. It is despicable when Hindu fundamentalists slander Muslims, atheists, Dalits etc but why can't Hindus have a newspaper to talk about yoga, old temples, sanskrit scholarship or whatever else the way every other faith does? Should we disregard everything they say? It seems important to talk about the repression of Hindus, especially those in Pakistan and Bangladesh where the Hindu population is under attack from the Muslim version of the BJP

You also can't compare a racial newspaper to a religious newspaper, they are two totally different things.



Secondly, the argument that only right wing degenerates make the normally docile-in-practice religion look bad is not a valid argument in case of Hinduism. Most of the Hindu population is actually from the lower castes, whose members are not even allowed in places of worships and often do not consciously identify with Hinduism. Hinduism in practice is defined by the practices of the three upper castes who are inherently discriminating against the lower castes. Parts of Hindu theory also justify this:

Killing of a woman, a Shudra or an atheist is not sinful. - Manusmruti

Some tolerant religion, eh?The Manusmirti does not define the whole religion, however. Many Hindu practices are not caste-based. It is true that many temples are closed to low-caste members but that is not true of the whole religion.

Also people can have reactionary ideas and still have good ideas. Many philosophers in history thought women were inherently worse than men or were racists but they still had good ideas too. The point is that we see these texts in CONTEXT. The Manusmirti was written in a particular time by a particular population, and giving it a moralistic and ahistorical analysis is not useful for understanding it.


If being full of contradictory statements is a valid reason for not considering one of the most popular Hindu scriptures as a reliable source of Hindu dogma, then we should separate the Bible and Quran from Christian and Islamic dogma as well.


Abrahamic religion is very different from Hinduism. Hinduism is not one religion that a prophet or his circle of followers laid out. It is a mix of many texts, traditions and rituals loosely united around a belief in the Vedas and a few common gods.

It wasn't until the mid-ADs that the religion we know of as "Hinduism" really began to emerge.



Most upper caste Hindus still follow the caste system. Even among those who are from upper caste backgrounds but formally dissociate themselves from the Hindu religion, there is a tendency to oppose the quota system for Dalits.
This is true, and IMO proof of why it's idealist to blame the Caste system on Hinduism as such. The caste system came out of an ancient feudal system, and Hindu texts just gave it moral justification. In reality however the modern caste system is about material differences, and not the religious ones used to justify them.



How many low caste sadhus have you seen so far? Other than some cannibalistic lunatic sects, sadhus actually live very luxurious lives compared to most Indians, and visibly adhere to the caste hierarchy. A low caste person is hardly ever allowed to become a sadhu.Many Sadhus reject their caste status (its supposed to be a part of being a Sadhu), and while some Sadhus live luxurious lives most live on the street. I certainly have never met a rich Sadhu living a luxurious life. Not to mention, Sadhus often reject the very religious differences between Hindus and Muslims which cause this reactionary violence (like Sai Baba from the 1800s, who aside from bein a faith healer, also connected to both the Muslim and Hindu communities)

It's also funny you call the Sadhu sects "cannibalistic lunatic" sects, considering that's the kind of upper caste moralism (and Christian-Islamic moralism) in condemning radical Sadhu sects. Personally I have no problem with a bunch of Durga worshipping ascetics hanging out at the cremation ground. IMO those radical "cannibalistic lunatic" sects as you call it actually pose a real critique to ancient Hindu morality as well as modern bourgeois morality. They are also just as much an ancient part of Hinduism as the Brahmins, as such sects have been around since the most ancient corners of the faith.

Yeah most Sadhus probably do accept caste hierarchy, but most INDIANS do (even atheist and muslim ones, even low caste ones for that matter) and aren't even aware of it because they are so damn used to it. That's one of the ways ideology works - like how many white people think that they're not racist but on some level really are.

At this point, it's important to see caste as a way of selecting people's economic class, in other words in materialist terms, and not see it as an unusual consequence of one particular religion.


Even if you're not aware of this from beforehand or haven't checked out some of their reports and analysis, the paper's name itself should seem suspicious. I mean, if Chakra does not refer to a weapon of Hindu gods, then it should mean either circle or conspiracy. Why the hell would someone name a newspaper that? :DWhat's wrong with the Chakra? It's not even an exclusively Hindu term. Ashoka was called the "Chakravartin" by Buddhists.

The comments section was very reactionary however. Stereotypical Sangh Parivar bullshit. I wouldn't be surprised if it is a Hindu nationalist paper (especially looking at some of their articles).