The homeless

[Einkarl]

What to do we in the present state do to help the homeless? Why don't "communist" organizations here in the U.S. do more to help?

A little story to tie into my next question. Once I was approached at my car by a young man begging at a stop light asking for money specifically for "booze", I didn't give him any money because it appeared like a bunch of guys hanging out and were low on money and were looking for some one to buy them some beer.

But this got me thinking.

In the event that a legitimate homeless person asked for money for drugs or alcohol. Should one give him money? On one hand your feeding a harmful habit that does not help him to leave his current situation and on the other you give him some relive from his troubles. What do you guys think?

[Brutus]

If I were a homeless person, I'd take up alcohol/drugs- passes the time and numbs. Why not give them the money? You're just going to spend it on crap anyway, just like they are.

[Skyhilist]

Why don't "communist" organizations here in the U.S. do more to

This depends what you mean by "communist" organizations. If you mean groups like CPUSA, it's because they don't genuinely care. If you mean actual communists, then I have to disagree with you. Communists are attacking the capitalist power structures that create poverty and therefore homelessness in the first place. Conservatives on the other hand but might have their charities like Salvation Army, but those don't actually solve problems. They paradoxically pretend to care while at the same time exacerbating the conditions that lead to homelessness in the first place. Their pretending to care isn't even very good because their only solutions are band-aid solutions that never actually solve the root of the problem. Communists on the other hand attack the problem at its root. We're seeking to eliminate the conditions that lead to poverty and homelessness while others are just putting a band-aid over those same problems.

[BIXX]

I would give money to any truly homeless person. I also am quick to give my money to anyone who seems to need it at the time (a stranger who realized they hadn't brought quite enough cash for bus fare, a friend who is hungry at lunch). Personally, I feel that I am only good to use it on shit, why not spread it around? And who knows, maybe one day some dude will be more willing to help me out when I am in a time of need.

As I am not a member of a communist organization exactly, I cannot speak for what they do.

[Einkarl]

This depends what you mean by "communist" organizations. If you mean groups like CPUSA, it's because they don't genuinely care. If you mean actual communists, then I have to disagree with you. Communists are attacking the capitalist power structures that create poverty and therefore homelessness in the first place. Conservatives on the other hand but might have their charities like Salvation Army, but those don't actually solve problems. They paradoxically pretend to care while at the same time exacerbating the conditions that lead to homelessness in the first place. Their pretending to care isn't even very good because their only solutions are band-aid solutions that never actually solve the root of the problem. Communists on the other hand attack the problem at its root. We're seeking to eliminate the conditions that lead to poverty and homelessness while others are just putting a band-aid over those same problems.

I don't see any communist organization attacking any capitalist powerhouse. Mostly here in the US they're concerned with building their numbers rather than actual revolutionary activity, not that it isn't vital (especially now),but to a homeless person this means exactly jack and shit. It seems to me that reason why communism isn't popular with even the extremely poor is that none of these organizations helps them. No one in trouble can turn to a socialist group for help if say they have nothing to eat, or if they need a place to sleep. Attending protests and holding meetings is all fine and good, but I think legitimate action and contribution will win over the hearts of the proletariat.

[Taters]

I don't see any communist organization attacking any capitalist powerhouse. Mostly here in the US they're concerned with building their numbers rather than actual revolutionary activity, not that it isn't vital (especially now),but to a homeless person this means exactly jack and shit. It seems to me that reason why communism isn't popular with even the extremely poor is that none of these organizations helps them. No one in trouble can turn to a socialist group for help if say they have nothing to eat, or if they need a place to sleep. Attending protests and holding meetings is all fine and good, but I think legitimate action and contribution will win over the hearts of the proletariat.

A lot of this seems to be a question of money. I doubt many communist orgs pull in enough cash to operate something like this (at least, not for an extended period of time).

[ckaihatsu]

---





The majority of people spoil their lives by an unhealthy and exaggerated altruism—are forced, indeed, so to spoil them. They find themselves surrounded by hideous poverty, by hideous ugliness, by hideous starvation. It is inevitable that they should be strongly moved by all this. The emotions of man are stirred more quickly than man’s intelligence; and, as I pointed out some time ago in an article on the function of criticism, it is much more easy to have sympathy with suffering than it is to have sympathy with thought. Accordingly, with admirable, though misdirected intentions, they very seriously and very sentimentally set themselves to the task of remedying the evils that they see. But their remedies do not cure the disease: they merely prolong it. Indeed, their remedies are part of the disease.

They try to solve the problem of poverty, for instance, by keeping the poor alive; or, in the case of a very advanced school, by amusing the poor.

But this is not a solution: it is an aggravation of the difficulty. The proper aim is to try and reconstruct society on such a basis that poverty will be impossible. And the altruistic virtues have really prevented the carrying out of this aim. Just as the worst slave-owners were those who were kind to their slaves, and so prevented the horror of the system being realised by those who suffered from it, and understood by those who contemplated it, so, in the present state of things in England, the people who do most harm are the people who try to do most good; and at last we have had the spectacle of men who have really studied the problem and know the life—educated men who live in the East End—coming forward and imploring the community to restrain its altruistic impulses of charity, benevolence, and the like. They do so on the ground that such charity degrades and demoralises. They are perfectly right. Charity creates a multitude of sins.

There is also this to be said. It is immoral to use private property in order to alleviate the horrible evils that result from the institution of private property. It is both immoral and unfair.

Under Socialism all this will, of course, be altered. There will be no people living in fetid dens and fetid rags, and bringing up unhealthy, hunger-pinched children in the midst of impossible and absolutely repulsive surroundings. The security of society will not depend, as it does now, on the state of the weather. If a frost comes we shall not have a hundred thousand men out of work, tramping about the streets in a state of disgusting misery, or whining to their neighbours for alms, or crowding round the doors of loathsome shelters to try and secure a hunch of bread and a night’s unclean lodging. Each member of the society will share in the general prosperity and happiness of the society, and if a frost comes no one will practically be anything the worse.

Upon the other hand, Socialism itself will be of value simply because it will lead to Individualism.

Socialism, Communism, or whatever one chooses to call it, by converting private property into public wealth, and substituting co-operation for competition, will restore society to its proper condition of a thoroughly healthy organism, and insure the material well-being of each member of the community. It will, in fact, give Life its proper basis and its proper environment.




http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext97/slman10h.htm

[Jimmie Higgins]

What to do we in the present state do to help the homeless? Why don't "communist" organizations here in the U.S. do more to help?While of course there is an intense need for some kind of relief - 30+ years of neoliberalism chopping away at services and now even more "necessary" austerity cuts at a time when even MORE people need some kind of relief.

In Occupy Oakland one of the really nice things about the early phase was that it became a hub for grassroots "survival programs" sort of along the lines of hoover-villes meet the Black Panther Party programs. Not only were homeless people getting food and a relatively safe space, but the inherent policical link to a protest movement highlighting inequality made it beyond just charity itself.

But with cutbacks in official relief programs, what has come in to fill that gap in the neo-liberal era? Mostly charities and NGOs and at the same time policing and repression. So the dozens and up to hundreds of radicals in some cities could do charity-type work, but we would always be a small minority of "poverty-prothlytisers", smaller than the church groups and liberals groups. What's more is that by essentially participating in the privitization of charity, the "pull your community up by its bootstraps" approach, we'd be caught-up basically adapting to charity under neo-liberalsism rather than challenging it (except for maybe in propagandistic ways).

But it's also not to say there's no reason to do it other than just helping someone who'd need and appreciate it (which really is an important thing, but IMO, just can't help the situation ultimately) - if a grassroots relief effort was connected to a larger project of trying to help the homeless organize and make their own demands, then we'd be, as Jesus said, teaching people how to fish so they can feed collectively themselves and begin to take on their political marginalization (of course allies would be a big part in helping this happen since homeless efforts would probably be ignored initially BECAUSE of their political marginalization). This would have a bonus effect of embarrassing religious charities.


In the event that a legitimate homeless person asked for money for drugs or alcohol. Should one give him money? On one hand your feeding a harmful habit that does not help him to leave his current situation and on the other you give him some relive from his troubles. What do you guys think?No, don't give him money because he will waste it on bad drugs; instead introduce him to your dealers so he can get a hookup with more quality drugs:D.

Yeah I agree that if I was homeless, I might find being driven to drink a happier alternative.

Seriously, if you want to give someone money, you should - if you can't afford it, just say, "I'm short". I just wouldn't ignore anyone if they asked, that drives me up the wall when I see people just straight ignore homeless people who are just asking for change. People need to get over the moralisim of this - giving money ultimately doesn't help much beyond that person (which IMO is fine if you have some $ to spare) and if you don't or are just overwhelmed by the amount of homeless out there, then that is what it is too. Really we need to figure out bigger solutions.

[Madame Ennui]

I've given money to the homeless before, wondering if I really doing anything good but I was also wondering "should I give him money or give him a gun?"

[AnSyn Blackflag]

What to do we in the present state do to help the homeless? Why don't "communist" organizations here in the U.S. do more to help?

A little story to tie into my next question. Once I was approached at my car by a young man begging at a stop light asking for money specifically for "booze", I didn't give him any money because it appeared like a bunch of guys hanging out and were low on money and were looking for some one to buy them some beer.

But this got me thinking.

In the event that a legitimate homeless person asked for money for drugs or alcohol. Should one give him money? On one hand your feeding a harmful habit that does not help him to leave his current situation and on the other you give him some relive from his troubles. What do you guys think?

Its up to the individuals to decide for themselves if they should help someone on the streets. Im not completly sure on the Marxist view but I do know that Anarchists tend to reject the concept of private property as a capitalist concept which causes homelessness on a massive scale. I am pretty sure Marxism is the same. So it' really up to you whether you give your last dollar to a complete stranger on the trust that he needs it more than you. I would but I would not say that it is something you HAVE to do in order to be a proper revolutionist.

[MarxArchist]

Obama, in the middle of a crisis, signed a bill cutting over 2 billion dollars from food stamp programs which also made it extremely hard for people to qualify for and or renew coverage. In other news:

http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/California-spending-billions-to-build-new-prisons-2335352.php

[Hit The North]

If I were a homeless person, I'd take up alcohol/drugs- passes the time and numbs.

Hell, I've got a roof over my head and I've still turned to alcohol and drugs!

As communists we should be agitating against homelessness as a symptom of capitalism. We should be arguing that having a home should be a human right and not a market relation. We should be arguing that socialism will be the solution for everyone's housing needs.

As others have written in this thread, in the present give charitably if you wish, but no communist organisation has the resources to home the homeless and there's little political gain in agitating among the homeless because not only are they homeless, they are powerless as well.

[Soomie]

I've given money and food to the homeless before. There's one guy that I always see in my town sitting on this one bench outside of CVS. He never asks people for money or anything, just kind of dozes on the bench for a bit. I've always wanted to ask him to go out to eat with me sometime when I have some extra cash, but I haven't seen him in months. I'm not sure what has happened to him. Anyway, a lot of Communist organizations won't give money or have difficulty helping the homeless because it requires a steady and mass flow of money, which is hard enough to come by as it is. But I know of plenty of local "Communist" organizers who hold potluck dinners every week in some of the low income areas. We do things like that, and we help when we can.

[Brutus]

I've given money to the homeless before, wondering if I really doing anything good but I was also wondering "should I give him money or give him a gun?"

Huh? I'm not following your train of thought.

[AnSyn Blackflag]

Huh? I'm not following your train of thought.

It seems she is either saying that the homeless should end their life or be given a gun so that they can join the revolution and proactively change their situation. I sure do hope its the second.

[blake 3:17]

Groups I've been closest to longest have been on this.

Check out http://www.ocap.ca/ Very focussed on local struggles but in a global context.

[Popular Front of Judea]

Talk about "false consciousness". Where to start. Okay. Next to my building there is a hygiene center. You will see men sleeping in the doorways so they will be the first ones in line when it opens in the morning. Why do they do so? Because there is always a long line of people waiting to get in when it opens at 5:30 am You see these individuals are washing up before they go to work. Although they are sleeping rough if you met them on the street or -- on the job -- you wouldn't peg them as quote unquote homeless. Start looking around in the industrial part of town and take another look at the cars, trucks and clapped-out RVs that you will find there. There are people sleeping in them. Many of these people too are working. You see there is the visible homeless, street alcoholics/drug addicts panhandling on the sidewalks --and then there is the often larger population of those who you don't see who also do not have a roof over their heads.

How to help? Don't give to panhandlers. Give to organizations that give support to the poor. I am a fan of food banks myself. (Many food banks give out "no cook" bags to those who have no means to prepare food.) If you are so inclined donate to your local 'Food Not Bombs'.

As far as where are the communists that's a good question. I know many people that are involved in advocacy and social services have radical beliefs -- outside of the office. If there are any radical organizations that are out there organizing the precariat, the unemployed and the 'involuntarily retired' I am all ears. (Feel free to message me).

[The Intransigent Faction]

I don't see any communist organization attacking any capitalist powerhouse. Mostly here in the US they're concerned with building their numbers rather than actual revolutionary activity, not that it isn't vital (especially now),but to a homeless person this means exactly jack and shit. It seems to me that reason why communism isn't popular with even the extremely poor is that none of these organizations helps them. No one in trouble can turn to a socialist group for help if say they have nothing to eat, or if they need a place to sleep. Attending protests and holding meetings is all fine and good, but I think legitimate action and contribution will win over the hearts of the proletariat.

Hmm. I absolutely agree with this.

What do you think of the idea of the homeless occupying foreclosed homes?

[Bostana]

Donating to the homeless isn't neccesarly "communist" thing it's more of a moral thing