Gendered Restrooms and Minority Stress

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Gendered Restrooms and Minority Stress: The Public Regulation of Gender and its Impact on Transgender People’s Lives (http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Herman-Gendered-Restrooms-and-Minority-Stress-June-2013.pdf)

(Links to a PDF)

[MarxArchist]

That's 80 pages. Can you summarize it?

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

The gist: 70% of transgender people surveyed reported harassment or discrimination in trying to use a restroom — and the survey area was one of the more progressive part of the country in enacting laws to protect trans people.

The Williams Institute study, lead by Jody L. Herman, PhD, concluded that until public policy and public administration can enact changes, this high danger to trans people will continue. In the meantime, the researchers say, “the onus will always be on the individual to try to navigate these spaces safely.”

The researchers made this suggestion: “In considering the role gender segregation plays in our environment, we should consider whether gender segregation is necessary to organize our public spaces.”

The study states that while some jurisdictions have made strides in this area, many have not, but will most certainly come face to face with it in the future..

[MarxArchist]

.
So they propose desegregating public spaces such as bathrooms?

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Conclusion

Transgender and gender non-conforming people can find themselves in danger in the gendered spaces in our built environment. Until public policy and public administration can meet the challenge to address this problem and rethink our reliance on gender segregation in our built environment, the onus will always be on the individual to try to navigate these spaces safely. In considering the role gender segregation plays in our environment, we should consider whether gender segregation is necessary to organize our public spaces. This is something that many legislators, public officials, and administrators are currently grappling with as transgender and gender non-conforming people have increased their visibility, formed political coalitions in the United States, and organized to make known the issues and problems they encounter in our society. While some jurisdictions have responded to the call to make changes to their policies and public spaces, many have not yet taken on this challenge but undoubtedly must face it in the future.

There are some models of public policy and public administration initiatives that have begun to address the problems gender segregation creates in public restrooms. For instance, statutory language that gives transgender and gender non-conforming people legal protections in restrooms have been adopted in the state of New Jersey, the cities of Oakland, Boston, Denver, and Boulder, and several jurisdictions within the state of Oregon. Enforcement regulations, which are drafted and implemented by government agencies, provide restroom protections in the cities of San Francisco, New York, and Washington, DC. Washington, DC’s enforcement regulations contain the strongest language in the country in regard to gender-segregated public facilities and serve as a good model for creation of public policy and implementation to address this problem.

In 2005, the DC Human Rights Act was amended to include “gender identity or expression,” and enforcement regulations for this amendment were adopted in 2006 that cover gender-segregated public facilities. These enforcement regulations for the DC Human Rights Act not only protect the rights of people to use the public facility consistent with their gender identity, but also mandate the creation of more gender-neutral restrooms in the District. Single-occupancy public restrooms in DC are now required to be gender-neutral. This requirement makes the enforcement regulations in DC the strongest in the country as of this writing. Implementation of the regulations is ongoing, with the DC Office of Human Rights working in conjunction with local advocacy groups, like the DC Trans Coalition and the DC Center, to identify and educate businesses that are out of compliance.

In addition to adopting legal protections for transgender and gender non-conforming people and creating more gender-neutral restrooms, transition-related health care coverage for transgender individuals must be considered as part of any public policy solution to the problems transgender people experience in gendered spaces. Participants in the survey for this paper suggested that medical gender transition decreases instances of denied access, harassment, and physical assault. Indeed in this sample, people who had any medical treatments or procedures to transition were less likely to experience harassment than those who had not transitioned (χ2 = 5.0107, p = 0.025). People assigned male at birth who had undergone electrolysis or laser hair removal for facial hair were less likely to experience verbal harassment than those assigned male at birth who had not (χ2 = 11.2108, p = 0.001). Significant barriers exist to getting medical transition treatments and procedures for those who need them. Fifty-two respondents said they wanted to have some (or more) transition-related medical treatments or procedures, but 63 percent said they cannot afford it. Eighty-five percent of these respondents said they would be more likely to get the medical treatments or procedures they want if they had insurance that covered them. Expanding access to transition-related health care for transgender people would be an important part any public policy initiative to address the problems created by gender segregation.
.

[MarxArchist]

In 2005, the DC Human Rights Act was amended to include “gender identity or expression,” and enforcement regulations for this amendment were adopted in 2006 that cover gender-segregated public facilities. These enforcement regulations for the DC Human Rights Act not only protect the rights of people to use the public facility consistent with their gender identity

Which has angered a certain faction within the feminist tradition. That's where most of the resistance has and will come from I'm afraid.

[Beeth]

What about cis women? What if they have a problem with trans women for obvious reasons?

[hatzel]

What about cis women? What if they have a problem with trans women for obvious reasons?

Oh yeah?

[Beeth]

Oh yeah?

What if a bunch of women/girls in the restroom believe that a perverted guy wants a peek and he's just using 'trans' as an excuse? How will you convince such women (and there are many, considering there are actual perverts out there)?

[Tenka]

What about cis women? What if they have a problem with trans women for obvious reasons?

I'd like to repeat what hatzel said. I hope you don't buy into the populist Roseanne Barr brand of "feminism" that is perfectly aligned with the sort of conservatism that whines about "MEN IN WOMEN'S RESTROOMS" when the topic is brought up of Transwomen being allowed to use the segregated restrooms of their choice.


What if a bunch of women/girls in the restroom believe that a perverted guy wants a peek and he's just using 'trans' as an excuse? How will you convince such women (and there are many, considering there are actual perverts out there)?

This is a ridiculous belief. "Perverted guys" don't become trans so they can sneak into "womens' spaces" and whatever. Sadly a lot of idiots seem to hold the belief that they do; I remember a video of two girls beating to a pulp a thin physically weak-looking transwoman who tried to use a female segregated public restroom. It was depressing. Education is needed, not capitulation to ridiculous conservative ideas (that seem to be a result of projection more than experience).

P.S. I am for complete desegregation of public toiletry facilities.

[Beeth]

I'd like to repeat what hatzel said. I hope you don't buy into the populist Roseanne Barr brand of "feminism" that is perfectly aligned with the sort of conservatism that whines about "MEN IN WOMEN'S RESTROOMS" when the topic is brought up of Transwomen being allowed to use the segregated restrooms of their choice.



This is a ridiculous belief. "Perverted guys" don't become trans so they can sneak into "womens' spaces" and whatever. Sadly a lot of idiots seem to hold the belief that they do; I remember a video of two girls beating to a pulp a thin physically weak-looking transwoman who tried to use a female segregated public restroom. It was depressing. Education is needed, not capitulation to ridiculous conservative ideas.

This may be the case in the west, but I am also considering other countries, especially in the Indian context (since I have direct personal experience). Here such perversion is very common. So convincing women wont be easy. this has more to do with fear and less to do with hate.

[Quail]

Using the bathroom is such a basic human need, and it should be a priority to ensure that everyone can do so safely. Recently the student union in Sheffield implemented gender neutral toilets, which I thought was a step in the right direction (and I'm personally not particularly fussed about using a cubicle in a bathroom where *shock horror* not everyone else will be female), but the comments online included stuff like, "Why are these necessary?" and, "There needs to be some mystery between men and women!" I'm not sure if the general population are actually that aware of the problems transgender people face when it comes to gendered toilets, because it's quite easy to take being able to safely use public toilets for granted.

[Tenka]

This may be the case in the west, but I am also considering other countries, especially in the Indian context (since I have direct personal experience). Here such perversion is very common. So convincing women wont be easy. this has more to do with fear and less to do with hate.

Oh yes there is lots of irrational fear involved, the Reptilian Brain don't you know, reacting in tandem with hetero-normative expectations. It was a bit harsh to outright call these people "idiots" (and arguably ableist--my bad).

If there are any specific cases of this supposedly common phenomenon in India with an article about them, a link to the article from a respectable news source would be appreciated. As well, there's nothing inherently perverted about "men" going into "female restrooms" under any pretences; they have cubicles for privacy, too. And none of those stupid wall-urinals!

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

What about cis women? What if they have a problem with trans women for obvious reasons?
In Washington State, where I live, there is a law that specifically protects against discrimination in places of public accommodation based on one’s gender expression or identity, and the Washington State Human Rights Commission, responsible for enforcing that law, supports the right of trans people to use the restroom consistent with their gender identity. The law has been in effect for seven years now, and there generally haven't been any problems.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Also, in the 14 years since I transitioned, I can only recall getting one odd look and reaction when using a women's public restroom. If cis women have had an issue with a trans woman in the restroom, they've kept it to themselves.

Of course, I live in a a generally liberal urban area.

[Decolonize The Left]

Which has angered a certain faction within the feminist tradition. That's where most of the resistance has and will come from I'm afraid.

Yes... in all of the world, feminists are going to be the biggest opposition to progressive statutes like this one. :rolleyes:

[MarxArchist]

Yes... in all of the world, feminists are going to be the biggest opposition to progressive statutes like this one. :rolleyes:

Within the leftist community yes. Not just "feminists", let me make it clear who would be siding with social conservatives and the religious- sex negative second wave radical feminists.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Within the leftist community yes. Not just "feminists", let me make it clear who would be siding with social conservatives and the religious- sex negative second wave radical feminists.

Must you constantly dwell on this? You have a particularly strange axe to grind.

[MarxArchist]

Must you constantly dwell on this? You have a particularly strange axe to grind.


You must live in a cave. I envy you.


http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2011/05/28/men-love-the-ladies-restroom-transgender-edition/

http://feministdisney.tumblr.com/post/30163618239/please-no-radfem

http://freedominwickedness.tumblr.com/post/29966105167/on-radical-feminist-bathrooms

http://www.radicalwomen.org/transphobia.shtml

http://www.questioningtransphobia.com/?p=1255

On and on. I could fill this page with sex neg rad fems attacking the idea of trans women entering women's bathrooms. Can I do this with Christians? Republicans? White nationalists? No. This is a thread about (trans) women entering, as they should be able to do, female bathrooms. Within the left (this is a leftist form) the group who would oppose this are generally sex neg radical feminists. I'd say they have an axe to grind. Naming the source of discrimination is important, especially when it's being done under the umbrella of "leftism". Without identifying the problem (within the left) how are we to find a solution to discriminatory theory, no, hatred being passed off as legitimate theory? Also, it just so happens that on the front page of RevLeft there has been two or three threads that tie into sex neg rad fem theory and I'm posting in these threads. I do generally criticize these people though. I also criticize capitalism(ists), racists, religion, primitivism, "anarcho" capitalism/right wing libertarianism in general, Stalinism, North Korea, Democrats, Republicans/most anything to do with the bourgeois political process, many aspects of Marxism and Anarchism in general etc. It's not like all my posts on this site are criticizing sex neg rad fem theory.


The person who thanked your post also admitted to me he's never even read a book by feminists let alone second wave sex neg rad fems. No wonder a post that sited Rosan Barr as the source of transphopia within feminism get so many "thanks". There's a source for this and it isnt the "populist Roseanne Barr brand of feminism". The OP knows this. She's experienced it from the source which as I said, is second wave sex negative radical feminism.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

To be honest, this is a subject worthy of it's own thread, but I'm going to go to bed soon so I'll do it tommorow. For now all I'll say is that it is absurd to reduce all of radical femminist theory to trans bashing, even when the patron saint of Radical Femminism, Andrea Dworkin, was trans positive herself. To quote her at length:


Transsexuality is currently considered a gender disorder, that is, a person learns a gender role which contradicts his/her visible sex. It is a "disease" with a cure: a sex-change operation will change the person's visible sex and make it consonant with the person's felt identity.
Since we know very little about sex identity, and since psychiatrists are committed to the propagation of the cultural structure as it is, it would be premature and not very intelligent to accept the psychiatric judgement that transsexuality is caused by a faulty socialization. More probably, transsexuality is caused by a faulty society. Transsexuality can be defined as one particular formation of our general multisexuality which is unable to achieve its natural development because of extremely adverse social conditions.
There is no doubt that in the culture of male-female discreteness, transsexuality is a disaster for the individual transsexual. Every transsexual, white, black, man, woman, rich, poor, is in a state of primary emergency as a transsexual. There are 3 crucial points here.
One, every transsexual has the right to survival on his/her own terms. That means every transsexual is entitled to a sex-change operation, and it should be provided by the community as one of its functions. This is an emergency measure for an emergency condition.
Two, by changing our premises about men and women, role-playing and polarity, the social situation of transsexuals will be transformed, and transsexuals will be integrated into community, no longer persecuted and despised.
Three, community built on androgynous identity will mean the end of transsexuality as we know it. Either the transsexual will be able to expand his/her sexuality into a fluid androgyny, or, as roles disppear, the phenomenon of transsexuality will disappear and that energy will be transformed into new modes of sexual identity and behavior.

If need be, I'm willing to find more quotes from her.

Secondly, and I know this is going to be hard to swallow, but in comparison to radical feminist theory, alot of Marxist Feminism
is really, really bad. A fair bit of it is just patronizing femminism, you know, oh yes those woman are paided less then men but this doesn't mean that they are oppressed as woman, they are just ultra oppressed workers! Now get back into the party line you mangy woman! Or other absurd garbage, such as that found in the school of Trotskyist feminism, where the feminist critique of household labor is combined with the transitional programme and you have "socialist" femminists demanding that capitalists should pay woman for housework because that would destroy capitalism! Which sounds like a good idea, except the thing is that all you will end up doing is wasting your energy on a reform movement the bourgeois will just ignore because the purpose of bourgeois reform is the maintenance of capitalism, not it's abolition. And of course, there are those "Left" Communists of the communization tendency who insist that patriarchy is merely a "form of appearance" to use their words that will automatically disappear when we abolish capitalism, which is again, just a fancy "left wing" (read, a right wing deviation from Marxism) way of telling woman to "Get back in the factory!"

So basically, as Marxists who don't buy the workerist giberish produced by "Marxists" Feminists, we want to explore other frameworks for approaching the question, and one of those frameworks is radical feminism. You refusing to acknowledge the possible validity of non-marxist theorists, and the possible fallibility of Marxist theorists, only shows the weakness of the Marxist school of thought, not its strength.

(And no, I am not denying that out there, there is some good Marxist stuff on feminism, like you know, what Engel's wrote in Private Property, the Family, and the State, but that I am also aware that non-Marxists stuff can also be good)

[MarxArchist]

To be honest, this is a subject worthy of it's own thread, but I'm going to go to bed soon so I'll do it tommorow. For now all I'll say is that it is absurd to reduce all of radical femminist theory to trans bashing, even when the patron saint of Radical Femminism, Andrea Dworkin, was trans positive herself. To quote her at length:



If need be, I'm willing to find more quotes from her.


Please don't.

http://transfeminism.tumblr.com/post/12371381560/andrea-dworkin-wasnt-a-friend-to-trans-people


It's not like I even mentioned Dworkin anyhow.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

This is a ridiculous belief. "Perverted guys" don't become trans so they can sneak into "womens' spaces" and whatever. Sadly a lot of idiots seem to hold the belief that they do; I remember a video of two girls beating to a pulp a thin physically weak-looking transwoman who tried to use a female segregated public restroom. It was depressing. Education is needed, not capitulation to ridiculous conservative ideas (that seem to be a result of projection more than experience).

P.S. I am for complete desegregation of public toiletry facilities.

Some perverts/sexual exploiters will go to any length to get off.

Of course in defense of trans people, pretty much every "trans" person using the bathroom would actually BE trans and not a straight person pretending to be for kicks, and "perverted guys" can easily get a job as, say, teachers and rape kids, but that doesn't mean that we do away with the profession of teaching. Really, the question should be even IF some weirdos do this, are most trans people, and is it a justification for stopping trans people from having certain rights? Instead of going against the empirical basis of whether or not a pervert would ever actually do this kind of thing, it seems more obvious to me to address the idiocy of such a possibility itself.