I AM READY TO READ ABOUT THE CULTURAL REVOLUTION WOOOoOoooooooOoooooooOOooooooOOooooo

[Ismail]

So after months of acquiring Soviet revisionist texts I decided that it was time to read sympathetic accounts of Maoist China (and Chinese history in general), especially the "Cultural Revolution" period. Ergo I recently bought the following books:

* Mao's China and After by Maurice Meisner
* A History of the Chinese Cultural Revolution by Jean Daubier (Mike Ely highly recommended this to me)
* China: The Revolution Continued by Jan Myrdal & Gun Kessle
* Fanshen by William Hinton
* Red Star Over China by Edgar Snow (this and Hinton's are obvious "must reads" so yeah)
* Red China Today by Snow again
* Daily Life in Revolutionary China by Maria Antonietta Macciocchi (she later became a Christian Democrat, but lots of Maoists read this ergo so shall I)
* Proletarian Power: Shanghai in the Cultural Revolution by Elizabeth J. Perry and Li Xun
* The Second Chinese Revolution by K.S. Karol
* The Cultural Revolution in China by Joan Robinson (Keynesian economist who praised China for criticizing "dogmatic" Soviet economics)
* China's Uninterrupted Revolution: From 1840 to the Present edited by Victor Nee & James Peck
* China's Socialist Revolution by John & Elsie Collier
* The Politics of the Chinese Cultural Revolution by Hong Yung Lee (this is actually a moderate account, so I use it as a counterweight to the other, "GPCR is glorious" works)
* The Chinese Road to Socialism by E.L. Wheelwright & Bruce McFarlane
* An Outline History of China edited by Bai Shouyi (1982 state-published work, goes from ancient times to 1911)
* The Chinese Debate About Soviet Socialism: 1978-1985 by Gilbert Rozman (in the 80's China abandoned the "USSR is state-capitalist" analysis, hence this book)

There were various other books I wanted to acquire as well (like one by Anna Louise Strong on the People's Communes) but I'm not rich so yeah.

[Brutus]

Why so many books?

[Sasha]

Ismail is leading the glorious vanguard that's going to bore capitalism to death....

[Ismail]

Why so many books?Because I don't think reading one work would provide a good summary of events.

For the record these are the works I have on Albania:

* Letter of the CC of the Party of Labour and the Government of Albania to the CC of the Communist Party and the Government of China. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1978.
* Nagel's Encyclopedia-Guide Albania. Geneva: Nagel Publishers. 1990.
* Portrait of Albania. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1982.
* Some Questions of Socialist Construction in Albania and of the Struggle Against Revisionism. Tirana: Naim Frashëri Publishing House. 1971.
* The Constitution of the Party of Labour of Albania. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1977.
* The Party of Labour of Albania on the Building and the Life of the Party. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1974.
* The Theory and Practice of the Revolution. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1977.
* Academy of Sciences, Institute of Marxist-Leninist Studies at the Central Committee of the Party of Labour of Albania, & Tirana University. The National Conference of Studies on the Anti-fascist National Liberation War of the Albanian People. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1975.
* Academy of Sciences of the PSR of Albania. The Albanians and Their Territories. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1985.
* Academy of Sciences of the Republic of Albania. The Truth on Kosova. Tirana: Encyclopedia Publishing House. 1993.
* Alia, Ramiz. Albania: An Active Participant in World Democratic Processes. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1990.
* Alia, Ramiz. Always in the Vanguard of Society, Bearer of Progress. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1989.
* Alia, Ramiz. Democratization of Socio-Economic Life Strengthens the Thinking and Action of the People. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1990.
* Alia, Ramiz. Our Enver. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1988.
* Alia, Ramiz. Report to the 9th Congress of the Party of Labour of Albania. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1986.
* Alia, Ramiz. The Deepening of the Revolutionization of the Life of the Party and the Country. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1990.
* Alia, Ramiz. The Revolution: A Question Taken Up for Solution. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1978.
* Ash, William. Pickaxe and Rifle: The Story of the Albanian People. London: Howard Baker Press Ltd. 1974.
* Bailey, Robert. The Wildest Province: SOE in the Land of the Eagle. London: Vintage Books. 2009.
* Bethell, Nicholas. The Great Betrayal: The Untold Story of Kim Philby's Biggest Coup. London: Hodder and Stoughton. 1984.
* Biberaj, Elez. Albania: A Socialist Maverick. Boulder, CO: Westview Press. 1990.
* Biberaj, Elez. Albania and China: A Study of an Unequal Alliance. Boulder, CO: Westview Press. 1986.
* Biberaj, Elez. Albania in Transition: The Rocky Road to Democracy. Boulder, CO: Westview Press. 1998.
* Bihiku, Koço. A History of Albanian Literature. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1980.
* Çami, Foto & Gramos Hysi. Constitution of Triumphant Socialism. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1980.
* Ceka, Neritan. The Illyrians to the Albanians. Tirana: Migjeni. 2005.
* Chekrezi, Constantine A. Albania: Past and Present. New York: Macmillan. 1919.
* Cusack, Dymphna. Illyria Reborn. London: William Heinemann Ltd. 1966.
* Davies, Edmund F. Illyrian Venture: The Story of the British Military Mission in Enemy-Occupied Albania, 1943-1944. London: Bodley Head. 1952.
* de Waal, Clarissa. Albania Today: A Portrait of Post-Communist Turbulence. New York: I.B. Taurus & Co Ltd. 2005.
* Elo, Leena (ed). Albania tänään. Suomi-Albania Seura: Helsinki. 1974.
* Elsie, Robert. Historical Dictionary of Albania. Plymouth: Scarecrow Press. 2010.
* Fischer, Bernd J. Albania at War, 1939-1945. West Lafayette, IN: Purdue University Press. 1999.
* Fischer, Bernd J. King Zog and the Struggle for Stability in Albania. Boulder, CO: East European Monographs. 1984.
* Frasheri, Kristo. The History of Albania: A Brief Survey. Tirana. 1964.
* Gardiner, Leslie. Curtain Calls: Travels in Albania, Romania and Bulgaria. Newton Abbot: Readers Union. 1977.
* Gawrych, George W. The Crescent and the Eagle: Ottoman Rule, Islam and the Albanians, 1874-1913. New York: I.B. Tauris & Co. 2006.
* Glenny, Misha. The Balkans: Nationalism, War, and the Great Powers, 1804-1999. England: Penguin. 1999.
* Glenny, Misha. The Rebirth of History: Eastern Europe in the Age of Democracy. England: Penguin. 1993.
* Griffith, William E. Albania and the Sino-Soviet Rift. Cambridge, MA: The M.I.T. Press. 1963.
* Guy, Nicola. The Birth of Albania: Ethnic Nationalism, the Great Powers of World War I and the Emergence of Albanian Independence. London: I.B. Tauris & Co. 2012.
* Halliday, Jon (ed). The Artful Albanian: The Memoirs of Enver Hoxha. London: Chatto & Windus. 1986.
* Hamilton, Bill & Bhasker Solanki. Albania: Who Cares? Grantham: Autumn House. 1992.
* Heaton-Armstrong, Duncan. The Six Month Kingdom: Albania 1914. New York: I.B. Tauris & Co. 2005.
* Hamm, Harry. Albania: China's Beachhead in Europe. New York: Frederick A. Praeger. 1963.
* Hibbert, Reginald. Albania's National Liberation Struggle: The Bitter Victory. London: Pinter. 1991.
* Hoxha, Enver. Laying the Foundations of the New Albania. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1984.
* Hoxha, Enver. Report Submitted to the 7th Congress of the Party of Labour of Albania. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1977.
* Hoxha, Enver. Report on the Role and Tasks of the Democratic Front for the Complete Triumph of Socialism in Albania. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1974.
* Hoxha, Enver. The Khrushchevites. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1984.
* Hoxha, Enver. The Party of Labor of Albania in Battle with Modern Revisionism. Tirana: Naim Frashëri Publishing House. 1972.
* Hoxha, Enver. The Superpowers. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1986.
* Hoxha, Nexhmije. Some Fundamental Questions of the Revolutionary Policy of the Party of Labour of Albania About the Development of the Class Struggle. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1977.
* Institute of Marxist-Leninist Studies at the Central Committee of the Party of Labour of Albania. Scientific Conference on the Marxist-Leninist Thinking of the Party of Labour of Albania and Comrade Enver Hoxha. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1983.
* Institute of Marxist-Leninist Studies at the Central Committee of the Party of Labour of Albania. Soviet Revisionism and the Struggle of the PLA to Unmask It. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1981.
* Institute of Marxist-Leninist Studies at the Central Committee of the Party of Labor of Albania. History of the Party of Labor of Albania. Tirana: Naim Frashëri Publishing House. 1971.
* Jacques, Edwin E. The Albanians: An Ethnic History from Prehistoric Times to the Present Volume 2. Jefferson, NC: McFarland & Company. 1995.
* Kola, Paulin. The Search for Greater Albania. London: C. Hurst & Co. 2003.
* Kota, Filip. Two Opposing Lines in the World Trade Union Movement. New York: Gamma Publishing. 1976.
* Logoreci, Anton. The Albanians: Europe's Forgotten Survivors. London: Victor Gollancz Ltd. 1977.
* Malcolm, Noel. Kosovo: A Short History. New York: New York University Press. 1999.
* Marmullaku, Ramadan. Albania and the Albanians. London: C. Hurst & Co. 1975.
* Minnesota Lawyers International Human Rights Committee. Human Rights in the People's Socialist Republic of Albania. Minneapolis, MN. 1990.
* Myrdal, Jan and Gun Kessle. Albania Defiant. New York: Monthly Review Press. 1976.
* O'Donnell, James S. A Coming of Age: Albania under Enver Hoxha. New York: Columbia University Press. 1999.
* Omari, Luan & Stefanaq Pollo. The History of the Socialist Construction of Albania. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1988.
* Omari, Luan. The People's Revolution in Albania and the Question of State Power. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1986.
* Pano, Nicholas C. The People's Republic of Albania. Baltimore, MD: The Johns Hopkins Press. 1968.
* Pollo, Stefanaq & Arben Puto. The History of Albania: From its Origins to the Present Day. London: Routledge & Kegan Paul Ltd. 1981.
* Prifti, Peter R. Socialist Albania since 1944: Domestic and Foreign Developments. Cambridge, MA: The MIT Press. 1978.
* Puto, Arben. From the Annals of British Diplomacy. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1981.
* Robinson, Vandeleur. Albania's Road to Freedom. London: George Allen & Unwin Ltd. 1941.
* Schnytzer, Adi. Stalinist Economic Strategy in Practice: The Case of Albania. New York: Oxford University Press. 1982.
* Schwandner-Sievers, Stephanie and Bernd J. Fischer (ed). Albanian Identities: Myth and History. London: C. Hurst & Co. Ltd. 2002.
* Shehu, Mehmet. Socialist Albania Will Never Budge from its Revolutionary Positions. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1977.
* Shehu, Mehmet. On the Experience of the National Liberation War and the Development of Our National Army. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1978.
* Sjöberg, Orjan & Michael L. Wyzan (ed). Economic Change in the Balkan States: Albania, Bulgaria, Romania and Yugoslavia. New York: St. Martin's Press. 1991.
* Skendi, Stavro (ed). Albania. New York: Frederick A. Praeger. 1956.
* Skendi, Stavro. The Albanian National Awakening, 1878-1912. Princeton: Princeton University Press. 1967.
* Smiley, David. Albanian Assignment. London: Sphere Books. 1985.
* State University of Tirana. Problems of the Struggle for the Complete Emancipation of Women. New York: Gamma Publishing Co. 1975.
* Thomas, John I. Education for Communism: School and State in the People's Republic of Albania. Stanford, CA: Hoover Institution Press. 1969.
* Tomes, Jason. King Zog: Self-Made Monarch of Albania. Stroud: Sutton Publishing. 2007.
* Vickers, Miranda. Between Serb and Albanian: A History of Kosovo. New York: Columbia University Press. 1998.
* Vickers, Miranda. The Albanians: A Modern History. New York: I.B. Tauris & Co Ltd. 1999.
* von Redlich, Marcellus Donald Alexander. The Unconquered Albania. Cincinnati, OH: International Courier Publishing Company. 1935.
* Ward, Philip. Albania: A Travel Guide. New York: The Oleander Press. 1983.
* Winnifrith, Tom (ed). Perspectives on Albania. New York: St. Martin's Press. 1992.

The following materials which I have contain chapters or notable discussion on Albanian affairs:
* Barker, Elisabeth. British Policy in South-East Europe in the Second World War. London: Macmillan. 1976.
* Blumenfeld, Yorick. Seesaw: Cultural Life in Eastern Europe. New York: Harcourt, Brace and World. 1968.
* Brown, J.F. Eastern Europe and Communist Rule. Durham: Duke University Press. 1988.
* Daniels, Anthony. Utopias Elsewhere: Journeys in a Vanishing World. New York: Crown Publishers. 1991.
* Dawson, Andrew H. (ed). Planning in Eastern Europe. London: Croom Helm. 1987.
* Djilas, Milovan. Rise and Fall. New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich. 1985.
* Drachkovitch, Milorad M. (ed). East Central Europe: Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow. Stanford, CA: Hoover Institution Press. 1982.
* Fejtő, François. A History of the People's Democracies: Eastern Europe since Stalin. Harmondsworth: Pelican Books. 1974.
* Freedman, Robert Owen. Economic Warfare in the Communist Bloc: A Study of Soviet Economic Pressure Against Yugoslavia, Albania, and Communist China. New York: Praeger Publishers. 1970.
* Galaty, Michael L. & Charles Watkinson (ed). Archaeology Under Dictatorship. New York: Klewer/Plenum. 2004.
* Goldman, Minton F. Revolution and Change in Central and Eastern Europe. New York: M.E. Sharpe. 1997.
* Gran, Peter. Beyond Eurocentrism: A New View of Modern World History. Syracuse, NY: Syracuse University Press. 1996.
* Gsovski, Vladimir & Kazimierz Grzybowski. Government, Law and Courts in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe Volume 1. New York: Frederick A. Praeger. 1959.
* Hammond, Thomas T. (ed). The Anatomy of Communist Takeovers. New Haven: Yale University Press. 1975.
* Held, Joseph (ed). The Columbia History of Eastern Europe in the Twentieth Century. New York: Columbia University Press. 1992.
* Joint Economic Committee, Congress of the United States. East European Economies: Slow Growth in the 1980s Vol. 3. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office. 1986.
* Kertesz, Stephen D. (ed). East Central Europe and the World: Developments in the Post-Stalin Era. Indiana: University of Notre Dame Press. 1962.
* Legters, Lyman H. Eastern Europe: Transformation and Revolution, 1945-1991. Lexington, MA: D.C. Heath and Company. 1992.
* Lendvai, Paul. Eagles in Cobwebs: Nationalism and Communism in the Balkans. Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Company. 1969.
* MacMillan, Margaret. Paris 1919: Six Months That Changed the World. New York: Random House. 2003.
* Radu, Michael (ed). Eastern Europe and the Third World: East vs. South. New York: Praeger Publishers. 1981.
* Schapiro, Leonard (ed). Political Opposition in One-Party States. London: Macmillan. 1972.
* Schönfeld, Roland (ed). Industrialisierung und gesellschaftlicher Wandel in Sudosteuropa. Munich: Südosteuropa-Gesellschaft. 1989.
* Starr, Richard F. Communist Regimes in Eastern Europe. Stanford, CA: Hoover Institution Press. 1988.
* Stavrianos, L.S. The Balkans since 1453. New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston. 1958.
* Swearingen, Roger (ed). Leaders of the Communist World. New York: The Free Press. 1971.
* Treadway, John D. The Falcon & the Eagle: Montenegro and Austria-Hungary, 1908-1914. West Lafayette, IN: Purdue University Press. 1983.
* Wolff, Robert Lee. The Balkans in Our Time. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. 1967.

The following articles I have access to:
* Andrea, Zhaneta. "Archaeology in Albania, 1973-83." Archaeological Reports. 30. (1983-1984): 102-119.
* Austin, Robert. "Fan Noli, Albania and the Soviet Union." East European Quarterly. 30. no. 2 (June 1996): 153-169.
* Backer, Berit. "Self-Reliance under Socialism - The Case of Albania." Journal of Peace Research. 19. no. 4 (1982): 355-367.
* Emadi, Hafizullah. "Women's Emancipation and Strategy of Development in Albania." Economic and Political Weekly. 27. no. 19 (May 9, 1992): 999-1002.
* Fischer, Bernd J. "Fan Noli and the Albanian Revolutions of 1924." East European Quarterly. 22. no. 2 (June 1988): 147-158.
* Kaser, Michael. "Albania's Self-Chosen Predicament." The World Today. 35. no. 6 (June 1979): 259-268.
* Korkuti, Muzafer, and Karl M. Petruso. "Archaeology in Albania." American Journal of Archaeology. 97. no. 4 (October 1993): 703-743.
* Lemel, Harold. "Rural Land Privatisation and Distribution in Albania: Evidence from the Field." Europe-Asia Studies. 50. no. 1 (January 1998): 121-140.
* Mëhilli, Elidor. "Defying De-Stalinization: Albania's 1956." Journal of Cold War Studies. 13. no. 4 (Fall 2011): 4-56.
* Nearing, Scott. "Approach to Albania." Monthly Review. 20. no. 1 (May 1968): 33-39.
* Pipa, Arshi. "Fan Noli as a National and International Albanian Figure." Südost-Forschungen. 43. (1984): 241-270.
* Sandström, Per, and Örjan Sjöberg. "Albanian Economic Performance: Stagnation in the 1980s." Soviet Studies. 43. no. 5 (1991): 931-947.
* Skendi, Stavro. "Albania within the Slav Orbit: Advent to Power of the Communist Party." Political Science Quarterly. 63. no. 2 (June 1948): 257-274.
* Smirnova, N.D. "Albania's 'Red Bishop' Fan Noli." Soviet Studies in History. 13. no. 3 (Winter 1974-1975): 32-56.
* Stavrou, Nikolaos A. "Albanian Communism and the 'Red Bishop'." Mediterranean Quarterly. 7. no. 2 (Spring 1996): 32-59.
* Stavrou, Nikolaos A. "The Sino-Albanian Friendship." World Affairs. 134. no. 2 (Winter, 1971): 234-242.

[Sasha]

i would say its more a logical conclusion if you for some unfathomed reason happen to think that the problems with authoritarian state "socialism" are in the historic practical details and not in the fundamental principle...

[Ismail]

i would say its more a logical conclusion if you for some unfathomed reason happen to think that the problems with authoritarian state "socialism" are in the historic practical details and not in the fundamental principle...Which is the equivalent of LSD, before he abandoned any pretense of leftism, saying that "power corrupts" to explain the "failures" of Lenin and onwards.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

i would say its more a logical conclusion if you for some unfathomed reason happen to think that the problems with authoritarian state "socialism" are in the historic practical details and not in the fundamental principle...

Quite frankly, coming from you, that's a compliment. If you find something wrong with our fundamental principles, then we aficionados of ASS must be doing something right.

Ismail, that is quite an impressive collection. Have you ever considered starting something like a workers' library or something to that effect? I don't know how 8 Nëntori and other publishers whose books you own are on that question, but most Trotskyist literature in the US is published by the frankly greedy Pathfinder Press, and they defend their copyrights jealously. Having this sort of communist library where people could study the works of American Trotskyism without paying an arm and a leg would probably help the movement - perhaps the same goes for antirevisionism.

[Ismail]

I don't know how 8 Nëntori and other publishers whose books you own are on that question,8 Nëntori basically doesn't exist anymore, so their works are freely put online by enverhoxha.ru and other websites.

I've always supported the idea of putting 8 Nëntori, Progress Publishers (i.e. Soviet revisionist), etc. works online due to their lack of copyrights. Many contain interesting information and analyses even if one disagrees with the conclusions. The Soviets wrote a lot of anti-Maoist polemics which I'd like to get one day as well. I still plan to upload a 1989 Soviet biography of Marx and other works I've mentioned in another thread (http://www.revleft.com/vb/scanning-soviet-books-t180692/index.html).

[Sasha]

Quite frankly, coming from you, that's a compliment. If you find something wrong with our fundamental principles, then we aficionados of ASS must be doing something right.

glad to be of service....

if you dont mind i am than now going back to read some exciting prose heavy insurrectionist tracts with occasional breaks back into the books of Blake, Milton and Gaiman I'm currently reading... i might be wrong on the fundamental principles but at least my stuff is fun and exciting to read...

[bcbm]

take up woodworking or an instrument or something my god

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

8 Nëntori basically doesn't exist anymore, so their works are freely put online by enverhoxha.ru and other websites.

Ah, I thought 8 Nëntori still existed as a small company, selling their old stock - I must have confused them with someone. And yes, enverhoxha.ru is a good resource.

I have to say I love the anti-intellectual response on this thread. Apparently, as far as some people are concerned, there is no revolutionary practice with revolutionary theory.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

So why not just post this in "what are you reading?".
I know maoism is a joke but maoist books don't really deserve a special thread in chit-chat.

[Sasha]

I have to say I love the anti-intellectual response on this thread. Apparently, as far as some people are concerned, there is no revolutionary practice with revolutionary theory.

Yeah, because people expressing they rather read Blake and Milton and prose heave insurectionary French works than dry historical domes is an "anti-intellectual response" in which alternate universe?

[Ismail]

So why not just post this in "what are you reading?".
I know maoism is a joke but maoist books don't really deserve a special thread in chit-chat.Asking for Xbox usernames or whether cats or dogs are superior are much better?

Also I don't post this there because one of the points of that thread is basically to bring attention to books you're reading or otherwise share anything of interest in them. I haven't read these books yet so neither applies.

[Brutus]

This is interesting, Judas!

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Yeah, because people expressing they rather read Blake and Milton and prose heave insurectionary French works than dry historical domes is an "anti-intellectual response" in which alternate universe?

In the universe, inhabited perhaps by a minority of members of this forum, where theoretical and historical works are valuable because of the information they contain, and if they are boring or dry is of secondary importance at best.

[ind_com]

The list is very nice. A good addition would be Gao Mobo's 'A Battle for China's Past'. Are electronic editions for any of the listed books available?

[Ismail]

Are electronic editions for any of the listed books available?No, if any of them were available online then I wouldn't buy them.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

This is interesting, Judas!

It's just a list of books.
I mean if Ismail wants to be a poseur showing how many books he reads, good for him, but I don't find that particularly interesting.
If it was a thread about what some interesting books on the CR were, and some are interesting and on my to-read list, then why would this be in chit-chat.

[Ismail]

Judas seems to be under the misconception that every aspect of my life is not inherently interesting.

[Paul Pott]

As an impartial third party, I can say it's obvious that Judas is just jealous.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

glad to be of service....

if you dont mind i am than now going back to read some exciting prose heavy insurrectionist tracts... i might be wrong on the fundamental principles but at least my stuff is fun and exciting to read...

http://i.imgur.com/OYybSW4.jpg?1

[Paul Pott]

i might be wrong on the fundamental principles but at least my stuff is fun and exciting to read...

If I wanted excitement without substance I'd just go read Tom Clancy.

[Sasha]

If I wanted excitement without substance I'd just go read Tom Clancy.


well actually i'm of the opinion my stuff has the substance and the fundamental principles pretty much sown up compared to the dogmatic circle jerk presented here, i was just humoring the opposition.
but i would too rather read tom clancy than enver hoxa, which is telling since tom clancy is a pretty strong contender on my shit list...

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Once again, we participants in this dogmatic circle-jerk are left speechless by the subtle and thorough argument psycho puts forward (Hoxha is kind of boring), wondering only why psycho hates capitalisation and proper sentence structure so vehemently.

[Sasha]

welcome to chitchatting with an non english native ADD dyslexic on weed... i write as i think, hence my frequent use of ...
hoxa would be a lot better as a stream of consciousness too though, hoxa would have been def a lot better if he was stoned
.
..
...
:lol:

[Paul Pott]

Ah, so your substance is illegal.

[Sasha]

nope, weed use is legal here, possession too (well technically a misdemeanor but jurisprudence will get you free even if you would get prosecuted which your not), sale is tolerated: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_the_Netherlands#Non-enforcement

[Paul Pott]

On that note, can I come read Milton with you?

[Sasha]

sure, but small warning, dutch weed is strong, you start reading milton and before you know it you are smoking your way through Blakes Jerusalem... to paraphrase dennis leary; who ever said weed wasnt a gateway drug was lying, it doesnt lead to heroin though, it leads to symbolic literature...

[Bostana]

Mao is a pretty OK poet...

I just had to say this

[Sasha]

68vv1sIyaMs

[Os Cangaceiros]

sure, but small warning, dutch weed is strong, you start reading milton and before you know it you are smoking your way through Blakes Jerusalem... to paraphrase dennis leary; who ever said weed wasnt a gateway drug was lying, it doesnt lead to heroin though, it leads to symbolic literature...

Yeah I smoked some white widow when I was in Amsterdam and it was really good.

Smoked a couple of other varieties of weed & hash there too but they weren't as good. Didn't meet another American tourist when I was there but there were a ton of other European nationalities who apparently drift through there on a drug cloud every now and then. Met a couple of Korean stoners too

[Ismail]

Enver Hoxha is so glorious that threads effortlessly turn to drug discussions in the presence of His name.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Or so boring that only druggies would actually be able toread it without falling asleep.

[Ele'ill]

excellent thread title this should be moved to learning

[Os Cangaceiros]

Enver Hoxha is so glorious that threads effortlessly turn to drug discussions in the presence of His name.

He's p. much a legend in drug culture. Second only to "why is weed illegal, it's like totally not as bad as alcohol is" as a popular socio-political topic

[The Intransigent Faction]

I'd definitely also recommend "Battle for China's Past". Read it in high school and loved it. :)

[Kalinin's Facial Hair]

LOL. Just. Fucking. LOL.

[Prairie Fire]

Yet another example of Ismail being well-read, knowledgeable, and political, in glaring contrast to the vast majority of everyone else here.

The general (declining) level of politics on this forum is " yeah, we should smash the state, cause Stalin was as bad as Hitler. Bureacracy." And then Ismail comes onto a thread and has done actual fucking research, while citing more sources then a goddamn graduate thesis.

I don't know why he bothers, but you gotta love how he won't be fazed that his well reasoned arguments are for nothing, to a chorus of insinuations about how boring he is.
Pearls before swine.

I wish I could ingest as many books (and retain every word in them) as Ismail.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Some disjointed thoughts:

It really is curious that members of a site ostensibly devoted to learning about revolutionary leftism would react like this to Ismail's posts. To be honest, though, it sometimes seems to me that Ismail finds this infinitely amusing (which, at least, is a positive attitude).

Part of the problem is an anti-intellectual attitude, most prominently the notion that politically important texts need to be exciting, in some undefined sense. Certain members of the site, it seems, are "into" revolutionary politics for the thrill.

Another problem is the moralistic attitude many, many members take. Marxists-Leninists, in particular, can barely post without someone screaming about how e-e-evil Stalin was, particularly in threads that have bugger all to do with Stalin. This often degenerates into subpolitical insinuations about a member's attitudes, motivations etc. And when moral outrage is not appropriate, then comes the ridicule. Anyone, particularly members from the Marcyite current, or Marxists-Leninists, who dares to express a positive opinion of figures that are reviled by the bourgeois press is ridiculed mercilessly.

The problem, as I see it, is that many, perhaps most, members of the forum are not communists, not even revisionist communists, but radical liberals, and remain enslaved to liberal-bourgeois ideology. Perhaps this is to be expected in a talk-shop site such as this, though.

[Ele'ill]

so now this has gone from what was another long running Ismail chit chat inside joke thread to actual tears over how users of certain tendencies aren't revolutionary-enough

[Os Cangaceiros]

Yet another example of Ismail being well-read, knowledgeable, and political, in glaring contrast to the vast majority of everyone else here.

The general (declining) level of politics on this forum is " yeah, we should smash the state, cause Stalin was as bad as Hitler. Bureacracy." And then Ismail comes onto a thread and has done actual fucking research, while citing more sources then a goddamn graduate thesis.

It's strange that you say this, because I don't perceive the current political climate to be like that at all around here. If anything I think it's moved away from that over the years...for example there were many more active anarchists on this site in the first couple of years after I joined the site, many of whom seemed to have either left the site or become Marxists (left communism being the most popular flavor).

My perception of the direction this site has taken is a rejection of anarchism's anti-authoritarian stances & federalism/decentralization but also a suspicion of "pro-state" arguments & party politics (or at least a big amount of skepticism towards current parties).

I've been on this site for years. And so have you. So you know that Stalin has never been popular on Revleft.

[bcbm]

Part of the problem is an anti-intellectual attitude, most prominently the notion that politically important texts need to be exciting, in some undefined sense. Certain members of the site, it seems, are "into" revolutionary politics for the thrill.

my position is not anti-intellectual at all. i could care less how boring a text is if it has information i am interested in, but i think there is more to being intellectual and revolutionary than reading tome after tome about the same thing. its a big world out there.


Anyone, particularly members from the Marcyite current, or Marxists-Leninists, who dares to express a positive opinion of figures that are reviled by the bourgeois press is ridiculed mercilessly.

i sincerely doubt most of the figures i have a positive opinion of are especially popular in the bourgeois press.


The problem, as I see it, is that many, perhaps most, members of the forum are not communists, not even revisionist communists, but radical liberals, and remain enslaved to liberal-bourgeois ideology. Perhaps this is to be expected in a talk-shop site such as this, though.

nice boiler plate



Yet another example of Ismail being well-read, knowledgeable, and political, in glaring contrast to the vast majority of everyone else here.

we have very different definitions of 'well read'

[Bright Banana Beard]

Can you describe what your definition of "well-read?" Keep in mind that Ismail also added sources from non-revolutionary study.

He wanted to read what going on on GPCR, I think we should applaud him for taking a interest on the subject and read many books about it.

[soso17]

Some disjointed thoughts:

It really is curious that members of a site ostensibly devoted to learning about revolutionary leftism would react like this to Ismail's posts. To be honest, though, it sometimes seems to me that Ismail finds this infinitely amusing (which, at least, is a positive attitude).

Part of the problem is an anti-intellectual attitude, most prominently the notion that politically important texts need to be exciting, in some undefined sense. Certain members of the site, it seems, are "into" revolutionary politics for the thrill.

Another problem is the moralistic attitude many, many members take. Marxists-Leninists, in particular, can barely post without someone screaming about how e-e-evil Stalin was, particularly in threads that have bugger all to do with Stalin. This often degenerates into subpolitical insinuations about a member's attitudes, motivations etc. And when moral outrage is not appropriate, then comes the ridicule. Anyone, particularly members from the Marcyite current, or Marxists-Leninists, who dares to express a positive opinion of figures that are reviled by the bourgeois press is ridiculed mercilessly.

The problem, as I see it, is that many, perhaps most, members of the forum are not communists, not even revisionist communists, but radical liberals, and remain enslaved to liberal-bourgeois ideology. Perhaps this is to be expected in a talk-shop site such as this, though.

^this
Thank you,
Soso, the ML-Marcyite ;)

[Sasha]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yQVNDeEpG-Y/TvVEVuKbsDI/AAAAAAAAAiU/3gR3Q8QaBt8/s1600/Gerard-Butler-This-Is-Sparta.jpg
THIS IS CHITCHAT!!!

Maybe ppl shouldn't take other people's posts not so serious?
Well maybe except those made by the Macy'ite MLs, they seem to have a profoundly lacking understanding of the function and practice of this subforum...

[bcbm]

Can you describe what your definition of "well-read?"

it would be fair to say he is well-read in certain areas, but i think being generally well-read means reading widely about a range of things.


Keep in mind that Ismail also added sources from non-revolutionary study.

okay


He wanted to read what going on on GPCR, I think we should applaud him for taking a interest on the subject and read many books about it.

i don't think there is anything wrong with learning about a topic. i think there is something worrying about having a narrow focus that largely informs your political perspective. or perhaps it is the other way around.

[Ismail]

i don't think there is anything wrong with learning about a topic. i think there is something worrying about having a narrow focus that largely informs your political perspective. or perhaps it is the other way around.I don't get this. I mean I've read negative accounts of the Cultural Revolution before; Enver Hoxha's most notable work, Imperialism and the Revolution, is so because he denounces Maoism, including the Cultural Revolution, as anti-Marxist. It should be pretty obvious that I agree with Hoxha's assessment.

When I bought Soviet revisionist works on how Burma and Syria (among others) were pursuing "non-capitalist development" months ago, I didn't do it because I wanted to learn about how awesome Ne Win and al-Assad were, but because I wanted to know the arguments the Soviet revisionists made and how they could justify such conclusions. Likewise by reading about the "Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution" from largely sympathetic accounts I can learn not only about events in general, but also the arguments made by Maoists.

[Akshay!]

Part of the problem is an anti-intellectual attitude, most prominently the notion that politically important texts need to be exciting, in some undefined sense. Certain members of the site, it seems, are "into" revolutionary politics for the thrill.

Another problem is the moralistic attitude many, many members take. Marxists-Leninists, in particular, can barely post without someone screaming about how e-e-evil Stalin was, particularly in threads that have bugger all to do with Stalin. This often degenerates into subpolitical insinuations about a member's attitudes, motivations etc. And when moral outrage is not appropriate, then comes the ridicule. Anyone, particularly members from the Marcyite current, or Marxists-Leninists, who dares to express a positive opinion of figures that are reviled by the bourgeois press is ridiculed mercilessly.

The problem, as I see it, is that many, perhaps most, members of the forum are not communists, not even revisionist communists, but radical liberals, and remain enslaved to liberal-bourgeois ideology. Perhaps this is to be expected in a talk-shop site such as this, though.

Best Post Ever!

Seriously, I like lots of posts by Comrade Semendyaev, but this is simply Awesome.

[Brutus]

Best Post Ever!

Seriously, I like lots of posts by Comrade Semendyaev, but this is simply Awesome.

Unfortunately, your posts are on the other end of the scale to Semendyaev's.
He is one of the better posters on this forum.

[bcbm]

I don't get this. I mean I've read negative accounts of the Cultural Revolution before; Enver Hoxha's most notable work, Imperialism and the Revolution, is so because he denounces Maoism, including the Cultural Revolution, as anti-Marxist. It should be pretty obvious that I agree with Hoxha's assessment.

When I bought Soviet revisionist works on how Burma and Syria (among others) were pursuing "non-capitalist development" months ago, I didn't do it because I wanted to learn about how awesome Ne Win and al-Assad were, but because I wanted to know the arguments the Soviet revisionists made and how they could justify such conclusions. Likewise by reading about the "Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution" from largely sympathetic accounts I can learn not only about events in general, but also the arguments made by Maoists.

basically i am saying i think your obsession with cold war era minutiae keeps your politics stuck in the cold war.

[Questionable]

Well I guess everyone has their thoughts and opinions, but as for me, I've come very close to dropping Marxism in general but have been persuaded otherwise by Ismail's quality writings. I can't say the same for certain users who mock him.

[Ele'ill]

Best Post Ever!..

...this is simply Awesome.

Why?

[Ismail]

basically i am saying i think your obsession with cold war era minutiae keeps your politics stuck in the cold war.Maoists think the Cultural Revolution was the greatest advance in socialism ever made, and many hold that it is a process which is to be emulated in other countries as well (without the "mistakes," of course.) Considering the Shining Path, Naxalites, Filipino Maoists, etc. it is worth reading up on the subject.

By comparison, the Soviet revisionist writings on "non-capitalist development" in India, Somalia, Algeria, etc. are more in the line of "Cold War minutiae" considering that every single analysis was prefaced with "these states can only pursue such development because of the existence of the world socialist community [i.e. USSR]." But even then the Soviets tried to portray nationalizations, the establishment of single-party governments, declarations of adherence to "socialism," etc. as evidence of the states in question supposedly weakening capitalism within their countries, which has some relevance in relation to modern-day bourgeois nationalists using "socialist" rhetoric.

[Akshay!]

Why?

Because it's a perfect description of people like you. :lol:

[bcbm]

people on the right side of history

[Akshay!]

Irrelevant kids. :lol:

[Brutus]

Because it's a perfect description of people like you. :lol:

Mari3l brings more to this forum than you ever could hope to.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

I love how a reading list in chit-chat has the capacity to turn into a tendency war.

And what the fuck is wrong with you Akshay? You're like a walking, breathing Stalinist propaganda machine borne out of the unholy union between Pravda and the China Times or something.

[Brutus]

I love how a reading list in chit-chat has the capacity to turn into a tendency war.

And what the fuck is wrong with you Akshay? You're like a walking, breathing Stalinist propaganda machine borne out of the unholy union between Pravda and the China Times or something.

Don't forget Tirana Radio

[Bostana]

This thread is most entertaining

[Paul Pott]

Wow, the left is fucking stupid and im drunk.

Also, hail enver motherfuckas

[Kalinin's Facial Hair]

Wow, the left is fucking stupid and im drunk.

Also, hail bronstein motherfuckas

:p

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Trockizm i hodzhaizm edno!

(Disclaimer: trockizm i hodzhaizm not actually edno.)

[Taters]

i always read your username as semendavey

which sounds like a horrible nickname for someone named david

also hoxha

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Maoists think the Cultural Revolution was the greatest advance in socialism ever made, and many hold that it is a process which is to be emulated in other countries as well (without the "mistakes," of course.) Considering the Shining Path, Naxalites, Filipino Maoists, etc. it is worth reading up on the subject.

By comparison, the Soviet revisionist writings on "non-capitalist development" in India, Somalia, Algeria, etc. are more in the line of "Cold War minutiae" considering that every single analysis was prefaced with "these states can only pursue such development because of the existence of the world socialist community [i.e. USSR]." But even then the Soviets tried to portray nationalizations, the establishment of single-party governments, declarations of adherence to "socialism," etc. as evidence of the states in question supposedly weakening capitalism within their countries, which has some relevance in relation to modern-day bourgeois nationalists using "socialist" rhetoric.

Wasn't there some truth to this? The fSU did provide some space for nationalist regimes at the very least. Third world nationalist regimes could be seen as"left bonapartist", elements of socialism from above.

[Ismail]

Wasn't there some truth to this? The fSU did provide some space for nationalist regimes at the very least. Third world nationalist regimes could be seen as"left bonapartist", elements of socialism from above.What was "socialist" about India's regime, which the Soviet revisionists declared was "building socialism"? How was Siad Barre's Islam-tinged "scientific socialism" leading the country towards non-capitalist development? And don't forget that Egypt under Nasser, Burma under Ne Win, and Ba'athist Iraq were also declared to be states of the "socialist orientation" (i.e. pursuing "non-capitalist development") despite the fact that they actively persecuted communists.

It is one thing to trade with bourgeois-nationalist governments, it is another to declare that they're actually on the march to socialism just because they trade with the USSR. Not to mention that the Soviet revisionists also declared that "revolutionary democrats can play the leading political role in the countries with a relatively weak proletariat." (Lenin and National Liberation in the East, 1978, p. 19.) The Soviet revisionists thus encouraged workers to give up any class independence in order to justify submission to a pro-Soviet bourgeois regime.

As for the "space" the Soviets supposedly provided, in reality the Soviets restored capitalism in their own country and pursued a neo-colonial policy abroad. Their claim that any country that wanted to construct socialism without submitting to Soviet dictate would be defeated by imperialism was a defeatist one, calculated to tie any national liberation movement to the USSR.

[goalkeeper]

The general (declining) level of politics on this forum is " yeah, we should smash the state, cause Stalin was as bad as Hitler. Bureacracy." And then Ismail comes onto a thread and has done actual fucking research, while citing more sources then a goddamn graduate thesis

Except graduate thesis use sources critically. Judging from the posts of this Ismail character i have read, this is something he has no idea how to do.

[Red Commissar]

well I had a burrito last night

beat that nerd

[Ismail]

Except graduate thesis use sources critically. Judging from the posts of this Ismail character i have read, this is something he has no idea how to do.Unless I've been somehow blindly citing Soviet publications in my posts, I don't get what you mean. The only Stalin-era Soviet book I physically own is the Short Course, which I don't think I've once cited. Other sympathetic works I have from the time-period are rarely cited by me in any case, and consist of Andrew Rothstein's A History of the U.S.S.R., the two-volume Soviet Communism: A New Civilisation? by the Webbs, Soviet Democracy by Pat Sloan, The New Soviet Constitution by Anna Louise Strong, and Soviet Economic Development Since 1917 by Maurice Dobb. The other books on the USSR I have are bourgeois works.

The fact that I bought 8 books either lauding or sympathetic to the "Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution" also makes it rather obvious that I'm not going to become a Maoist by reading them, and am going to view them skeptically.

[MrCool]

Oh my god, I have more Stalin-era books than Ismael!


Kannatuste Rada I / The Road to Calvary I, Aleksei Tolstoi, "Ilukirjandus ja Kunst"* Tallinn 1945
Kannatuste Rada II / The Road to Calvary II, Aleksei Tolstoi, "Ilukirjandus ja Kunst" Tallinn 1946
Elame Veel! / Colas Breugnon!, Romain Rolland, "Ilukirjandus ja Kunst" Tallinn 1946
Port Arthur, A. Stepanov, Tallinn 1947
Kui Anija Mehed Tallinnas Käisid / When men from Anija visited Tallinn, Eduard Vilde, "Ilukirjandus ja Kunst" Tallinn

*Fiction literature and Art

Okay, they aren't political...
but Port Arthur describes life in a besieged city during the Russo-Japanese war.

[Sixiang]

I think you've got a pretty good list based on the books I am familiar with. Some are on my own list of "to read" books while others I have never heard of. Thanks for turning my attention to the ones I didn't know already.

I just noticed a few things. You said "Maurice Hinton" authored Fanshen. The author's name is William Hinton and that book has nothing to do with the Cultural Revolution. It is about Hinton's time spent in a CCP-controlled village in 1948.

Similarly, Red Star Over China has nothing to do with the Cultural Revolution. It is about Snow's trip into the CCP-base area of Yan'an in 1936. And Red China Today is largely based on Snow's trip to China in 1960 but if you get the revised and updated edition from 1970, you will get some thoughts on the CR.

And I haven't read Mao's China and After by Maurice Meisner yet but I have read another one by him: Mao Zedong: A Political and Intellectual Portrait. It is a mystery to me at this point whether Meisner changed his mind about Mao and the Cultural Revolution at some point, but I can tell from this one that by 2007, he had regarded the Cultural Revolution as a complete "heresy" of orthodox Marxism and Mao as an "unorthodox" Marxist who abandoned his own great principles. There is a school of sinologists and China historians out there who parrot the CCP's current line that Mao was great before 1957 and a traitor of his own great words after that point. Meisner is of that school. So he does not praise the CR by any means. He regards it as un-Marxist and "utopian."

That being said, enjoy. I would be happy to discuss the subject with you as you read and want to debate or ponder any issues, as I myself am very interested in the time period and am puzzling over the challenging and confusing questions it presents.

[Ismail]

I know that the Hinton and Snow books aren't about the Cultural Revolution. I bought them because of their sympathetic portrayals of the CCP and Chinese society under it and their iconic statuses (Red Star Over China and Fanshen) as "must-read" books on China. And yes, I have the 1970 edition of Red China Today.

[Karlorax]

Mao's China and After is a good book. Jurgan Domes's works are good.