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View Full Version : Distribution of environmentally risky resources under communism



Skyhilist
24th June 2013, 17:18
Let me explain what I mean by "environmentally risky". What I mean is resources where it's not an issue of "is there enough of this for everybody to have free access to it", but rather is an issue of "if we use too much of this resource it could have damning environmental consequences."

Lets take rare earth metals, for example. We all use them in our electronics, and they're a very important resource. How, if every single person on earth had access to say certain high-tech devices that use a lot of these metals, the environmental impact of mining would increase exponentially (because electronics are things that people tend to want). So maybe for some electronics there would be enough of them for everyone to have free access "according to need", but doing that would be ecologically harmful. This is only one example, so if you spot small flaws in this one example, please don't spend an entire response pointing it out because that's not the point.

My point is that, communism states that everyone who contributes gets everything according to his/her "need", which generally relates to what people want (e.g. electronics). But with some things, just giving them away to every worker might have very damning environmental consequences. So how would this be prevented without restricting access to certain items to an elite group of people?

I imagine new technology will help alleviate this burden (e.g. if electronics could be made with more recycled materials and no rare earth metals in the future), but it seems that such problems would, at least sometimes, would still occur.

So what are some solutions to this?

Personally, here's what I was thinking. Every worker has access to, say, X number of items that are labelled as of special concern to the environment... and to consume these items they must do something to reduce their environmental footprint so as to not have a net negative effect (e.g. being more carbon neutral). The authority of environmental scientists would be voluntarily deferred to in order to collectively make decisions about which items would require this. Would this be compatible with communism still since it's somewhat restricting access? I mean, something has to be done in situations like these. Sustainability isn't really possible if enough workers demand numerous computers, TVs, etc.

Your thoughts?

Ele'ill
24th June 2013, 17:45
it will be an issue when demand rises and I tend to think the impact will be catastrophic although I know from previous discussions the technocrats will say that they can come up with or already have come up with methods of resource harvesting and industrial production that leaves little impact on the earth (I don't believe it)

Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages
24th June 2013, 22:18
Planned obsolescence plays a big part when it comes to most electronics manufacturing and plays a massive part in consumer electronics specifically. Manufacturing in a post-capitalist society would presumably put emphasis on producing something like a modular platform with a long life span, rather than a dumbed-down piece of shit that will fail intentionally in 2 years, forcing you to buy a new one.

But this is all assuming that the plethora of devices that exist would still be relevant without a profit motive. Think of all the devices you see on a daily basis that serve no purpose other than as a platform to sell the unfortunate owner additional products and services? Maybe people will only need one thing like a phone or a brain chip, or maybe just a spear or bow and arrows or something I don't know..

Skyhilist
24th June 2013, 23:33
Planned obsolescence plays a big part when it comes to most electronics manufacturing and plays a massive part in consumer electronics specifically. Manufacturing in a post-capitalist society would presumably put emphasis on producing something like a modular platform with a long life span, rather than a dumbed-down piece of shit that will fail intentionally in 2 years, forcing you to buy a new one.

But this is all assuming that the plethora of devices that exist would still be relevant without a profit motive. Think of all the devices you see on a daily basis that serve no purpose other than as a platform to sell the unfortunate owner additional products and services? Maybe people will only need one thing like a phone or a brain chip, or maybe just a spear or bow and arrows or something I don't know..

I see what you're saying. So maybe instead of a portion of the population buying like 6 generations of iPhones, there'd just be one generation with the most popular features and better materials. That makes sense. But what about items where planned obsolescence doesn't really play a huge role? For example, solar panels usually last for decades and there aren't really huge social pressures to go buy the newest trendy solar panels if you have older ones.
Or, what if it's a resource that we already consume unsustainably? Like suppose due to planned obsolescence there are 10 generations of device x. The total consumption of the 10 generations is wasteful but it's spread out over time as each new generation comes out. Under communism if there was one long lasting generation, wouldn't the demand (as Mar3l said) of device x spike causing all the resources needed to produce to potentially be consumed at once, leading to environmental problems? I mean obviously making items more durable and the Bsense of planned obscolescence is helpful, but I don't really think that's enough to prevent certain environmental catastrophes from occurring due to the jump in demand caused by all workers having free access to certain resources.

ckaihatsu
25th June 2013, 19:57
I think most stampedes towards environmentally degrading practices are due to lack of sufficient coordination and planning, due to capitalism's chaotic organizational process -- especially in poorer and less-developed countries. In other words, if something is new and good then it's popular, and consumer demand will force production, 'cutting corners' along the way. More-conscious and environmentally aware practices won't happen until such can be marketed as an 'alternative', for a niche placing in the already-well-established market.

There's an inherent trade-off between innovation and standardization, so if greater-organization is used over technological advancement, post-capitalism, then it would be more-thorough and thoughtful, but such standardization would tend to discourage future-oriented innovations. And, on the flipside, we have the present-day example of the desktop Linux operating system, which is basically unregulated (only "industry" practices), and leads to a *myriad* of various versions that is no picnic to pick through for the average, newbie user.


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