NSA Spying, Liberal Naivety, And Radical Realities

[Drugged Out Communist]

Recently, a former National Security Agency employee, Edward Snowden, offered a series of revelations on massive surveillance programs conducted by the United States. Snowden revealed to the British media outlet the Guardian that: the National Security Agency, a branch of the US military, collects data on virtually all telephone and electronic communication within the United States; thousands of NSA ‘field agents’ regularly monitor the telephone and other communications of up to one million US citizens and can ‘listen-in’ to the communications of anyone in the US at-will; the NSA has direct access to electronic communications through built-in ‘back doors’; and US and British intelligence agencies regularly spy on foreign leaders during international summits.

Such NSA spying violates the basic laws of the United States, particularly the First and Fourth Amendments, which outline Amerikans’ ‘rights’ to privacy and free speech. This has created quite the row in the United States. Preeminent imperialist political leaders like former Vice-President Dick Cheney and President Barry Obama have described the actions of Snowden, who is last known to be in Hong Kong, as traitorous and criminal.

As Marxists understand, rights are always the product of class struggle. They are neither enshrined by deities or nature. The US ‘Bill of Rights,’ for example, is the product of the union of European settlers in their dual struggle against their British masters and the Indigenous and African populations which they preyed upon. As such, rights helped define the ability of settler and imperialist populations to oppress ‘others.’ The rights which have been historically enjoyed by Amerikans are both the result of and necessary conditions for the benefits they collectively receive via the exploitation the Third World.

Liberals like to believe rights are ‘natural’ or ‘inalienable.’ Violations of rights, for liberals, thus are an abrogation to be fixed. Yet, never have liberals offered a sufficient explanation of why various rights only appeared at a certain juncture of history, or why rights are routinely violated or only nominally upheld by all sides of class conflicts.

In reality, there is only the power of some groups over others. This, along with the physical means of production, is this most fundamental aspect of any society. Rights, accordingly, becomes an ideological dressing which covers up the bitter taste of actual class structures.

Over the last historical epoch, the United States has reigned supreme. Honing its aggression first against Africans and Indigenous peoples (including Chicanos-Mexicanos), it quickly unleashed a wave of terror upon the rest of the world, beginning in the 1890s with its genocidal occupations of Hawai’i, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines, and lasting through today with its bombings, occupations, and covert operations against Iraq, Iran, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Sub-Saharan Africa, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, Syria, and Venezuela (not to mention its support for scores of fascistic comprador regimes across the Third World). There are no “rights” of the oppressed masses respected by the US and its lackeys. Furthermore ‘rights’ have always been a flimsy ideal for those engaged in oppositional organizing within imperialist centers, as illustrated by the recently released documentary, COINTELPRO 101.

The breakdown of liberal-democracy in the United States

Under the weight of mature monopoly capitalism, in which the US domestic economy is primarily based in a few key parasitic industries (notably security, private prisons, and military manufacturing and services), it is only natural that some of the so-called ‘rights’ previously enjoyed by US citizen erode away. Simultaneously, the US is amping up militarist aggression around the globe, often under the increasingly hypocritical liberal language of ‘rights.’ For some, this may be a moment when the ‘emperor has no clothes’ and the hypocritical doublespeak pushed by the US is ever-more exposed. Meanwhile, most Amerikans support the NSA spying program.

US-led imperialism will continue to blaze a trail into neo-tributary economics: the continued expropriation and dispossession at gun-point which has characterized past US imperialism; an accentuated legalized exploitation being instituted through policies of global apartheid; and most notably, an increasing proportion of surplus devoted to violently maintaining global class divisions in permanence, i.e. the expansion of the police-state complex. With this transition, spying on Amerikans is not simply a national security issue, it is an economic one. As one might expect, there is only one direction such a trajectory may lead: fascism and war.

In terms of political direction, most Amerikans (especially Whites) are inclined toward a reactionary longing for a bygone ‘golden era’: not to fight for a radically egalitarian re-division of the world’s economic power, but to keep their privileged position in the present system. Along with the historically reactionary White masses, ‘their’ imperialist state increasingly represents an economic system founded on the dispensing of military and security wares. Like all forms of capital, the US must constantly expend and resupply pieces of its military machine. For now, the US military is mainly directed against Third World countries. But the increasingly neo-tributary character of the US-led imperialism could easily lead to a catastrophic World War III. Now, more than ever, proletarian revolution is necessary for the liberation of humanity from the ravages of imperialist class rule.

Rights Under Communism and the Struggle for Global New Democracy

The communist struggle is for a world without class divisions: for the shared responsibility and equal reward for humanity’s social and productive capacities. Under communism, classes (as groups divided over their relationships to production) have ceased to exist, and things like the state, media, and culture no longer exist as instruments of class rule. Oppression (as a structural and super-structural mediator of exploitation) no longer exists. Likewise, the notion of rights as an exclusive privilege based on one’s association with a certain group has dissolved away as well. Instead, rights under communism are understood to be the result of the conscious class struggles which previously produced them and are extended in such a manner for the benefit of all (even those outside the direct scope of class struggle, e.g. ‘animal rights.’) Just as uneven power structures have created rights as exclusive privileges selectively used against oppressed and exploited people, the equal economic relations of communism will create rights which serve the long-term interest of all.

However, communism is an end. Class struggle is the means. In the contemporary world, the immediate end of class struggle is waging a global united front against imperialism for global new democratic revolution. The united front is composed of proletarian forces and its immediate allies in the national bourgeoisie and petty-bourgeoisie who are activity engaged in the struggle against US-led imperialism and its lackeys. Global new democratic revolution aims to correct the immediate disparities in structural power between the First and Third World and oppressors and oppressed nations; to politically, militarily and economically overthrow US-led imperialism; and to set the stage for the widespread and immediate struggle for socialism and the end of capitalist economic relations. All of society must be revolutionized in this period, including ourselves. Yet this can not be accomplished without struggle.

The struggle against imperialism and for global new democracy, socialism, and communism is not merely possible. It is the only possible alternative to the catastrophic compounding abuses of capitalist-imperialism. Only by conscious class struggle (i.e. active organizing for the global united front against imperialism, national liberation, and global new democracy) can humanity avoid the ruinous path pursued by US-led capitalist-imperialism.


Source: anti-imperialism.com/2013/06/21/nsa-spying-liberal-naivety-and-radical-realities/

[Slavic]

I do not understand were the author is going with his third passage with regards to "Global New Democracy" and a "unified front" grouping socialist along with national bourgeoisie and petty-bourgeoisie. I can not fathom how socialists and nationalist bourgeoisie governments can have a common goal besides the reduction of the U.S.'s global presence. Nationalist bourgeoisie only rail against the U.S. because the U.S. affects their profits. If the U.S. were to falter, another bourgeoisie government would seek to fill the power vacuum and continue were the U.S. left off, trading one imperialist for another.

I also do not understand how he can support national liberation while also exulting a "global new democracy". Both concepts seem to be incompatible with one another coming from a socialist perspective.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Ah, petty bourgeois/bourgeois, quasi-third worldist nationalist bullshit cloaked in socialist language. Cute.

It's absolutely true that the idea of 'natural rights' is a juxtaposition - rights do not appear out of thin air, nor are they handed down by the good pawnmakers. They are won, over long periods of time, in struggle. The author then jumps to the conclusion that we must ally ourselves with those who murder our fellow common workers, who instruct their soldier to rape proletarian women as an instrument of war, who use gas on their own people and wish to establish their own regional imperial armies and power. If that is Socialism, then frankly, i'm not a Socialist. But luckily, i'm fairly confident that it's not, so I will remain a Socialist until the red flag of Saddam, Qaddafi and that moustached asshole in Damascus reigns supreme! :rolleyes:

[KarlLeft]

I doubt that fella Snowden really cares all that much about the NSA spying. If you look at his background, he's spent most of his young life trying to succeed at something spectacular that people will notice. He finally found himself in a position where he could make a splash and he's getting his 15 minutes but I don't think this particular set of revelations is very significant.

I mean, we all know the state is going to use all the technological means at its disposal to eavesdrop and collect as much information on everyone it can, in this country and as many others as possible. The big story here, as I can tell, is that the U.S. violated laws while doing its collecting.

Wow! Stop the presses! The state, which is answerable to no one, violated its laws, which are really intended only to be applied to everyone else! I think I've heard this story somewhere before...!

[Pawn Power]

I doubt that fella Snowden really cares all that much about the NSA spying. If you look at his background, he's spent most of his young life trying to succeed at something spectacular that people will notice. He finally found himself in a position where he could make a splash and he's getting his 15 minutes but I don't think this particular set of revelations is very significant.

I mean, we all know the state is going to use all the technological means at its disposal to eavesdrop and collect as much information on everyone it can, in this country and as many others as possible. The big story here, as I can tell, is that the U.S. violated laws while doing its collecting.

Wow! Stop the presses! The state, which is answerable to no one, violated its laws, which are really intended only to be applied to everyone else! I think I've heard this story somewhere before...!

The dude is facing life in prison, which he certainly knew before taking this action. His analysis is well thought out and clear, even if you don't agree with it.

Most people won't even risk their job for what they think is justice-- life in confinement is not even on the table for a vast majority of activist/revolutionaries.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

I doubt that fella Snowden really cares all that much about the NSA spying. If you look at his background, he's spent most of his young life trying to succeed at something spectacular that people will notice. He finally found himself in a position where he could make a splash and he's getting his 15 minutes but I don't think this particular set of revelations is very significant.

I mean, we all know the state is going to use all the technological means at its disposal to eavesdrop and collect as much information on everyone it can, in this country and as many others as possible. The big story here, as I can tell, is that the U.S. violated laws while doing its collecting.

Wow! Stop the presses! The state, which is answerable to no one, violated its laws, which are really intended only to be applied to everyone else! I think I've heard this story somewhere before...!


Dude was making a shitload of money, working a cake job and living in Hawaii with no end to it in sight. No body gives that up for 15 minutes of fame and a guarantee of never being allowed back home ever again. What are you talking about?

[Doctor Hilarius]

I doubt that fella Snowden really cares all that much about the NSA spying. If you look at his background, he's spent most of his young life trying to succeed at something spectacular that people will notice. He finally found himself in a position where he could make a splash and he's getting his 15 minutes but I don't think this particular set of revelations is very significant.

I mean, we all know the state is going to use all the technological means at its disposal to eavesdrop and collect as much information on everyone it can, in this country and as many others as possible. The big story here, as I can tell, is that the U.S. violated laws while doing its collecting.

Wow! Stop the presses! The state, which is answerable to no one, violated its laws, which are really intended only to be applied to everyone else! I think I've heard this story somewhere before...!

To us this might be obvious, to the majority of the American public it isn't.

[dez]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/snowden-departs-hong-kong-for-a-third-country-government-says/2013/06/23/08e9eff2-dbde-11e2-a9f2-42ee3912ae0e_story.html

MOSCOW — Edward Snowden, the former government contractor who leaked top-secret documents about U.S. surveillance programs, fled Hong Kong for Moscow on Sunday with the assistance of the anti-secrecy organization WikiLeaks and asked the government of Ecuador to grant him asylum.

[KarlLeft]

Dude was making a shitload of money, working a cake job and living in Hawaii with no end to it in sight. No body gives that up for 15 minutes of fame and a guarantee of never being allowed back home ever again. What are you talking about?

So just what was this guy expecting to accomplish? Does he expect his action is going to initiate some great campaign in the media that's going to end up fundamentally changing the way the U.S. spies on people? Sure, the media is paying attention to him, for now, but only to watch him crash and burn, not take up his cause.

He's just one guy getting his name in the news. I know he's being supported by WikiLeaks but I don't think he's got any other groups behind him.

Who knows what he was thinking when he did what he did? Did he even understand the consequences of what he was doing? What was the point of going to Hong Kong? Andy why is he running around from continent to continent? I don't get the feeling he's thought this out very well.

I don't think he really understood what he was doing or why he was doing it. He hasn't followed up with any other acts or statements. He's just on the run. If he's lucky, he'll find a country that'll be willing to stand up to the U.S. and give him asylum where he can live the rest of his life in anonymity. Or he'll be extradited back to the U.S. to spend the rest of his life in prison.

I don't know why he threw away his bourgeois high-paying government contractor job in Hawaii. I don't think he does either.

[bcbm]

Who knows what he was thinking when he did what he did? Did he even understand the consequences of what he was doing? What was the point of going to Hong Kong? Andy why is he running around from continent to continent? I don't get the feeling he's thought this out very well.

I don't think he really understood what he was doing or why he was doing it. He hasn't followed up with any other acts or statements. He's just on the run.

uh http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-nsa-files-whistleblower

[Os Cangaceiros]

Yeah, I'd say the evidence leans more towards this being a planned, calculated act on his part rather than something he just decided to do one day.

As one would expect when you make yourself a target of the federal government and flee the country...

[KarlLeft]

Okay, so I read the link and he explains that he chose Hong Kong because he needed a destination that had the cultural and legal framework that allowed him to work without being detained. Fine.

Still, I question the value of what he and his fellow "citizens of conscience" are doing. It's a good bet his functional life is over whether he's extradited or not. He's sacrificed his life. For what?

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

To us this might be obvious, to the majority of the American public it isn't.

Ah please stop with this 'holier than thou' attitude. 'We' are not some enlightened prophets sent down from the Marxian heavens to purify and raise up the 'masses'. Some of us are just workers too. Perhaps even privileged workers, for having had access to a greater level of education, though of course one could also say that some of us have not used this particularly effectively, judging by some of the daily stupidity posted on here.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Okay, so I read the link and he explains that he chose Hong Kong because he needed a destination that had the cultural and legal framework that allowed him to work without being detained. Fine.

Still, I question the value of what he and his fellow "citizens of conscience" are doing. It's a good bet his functional life is over whether he's extradited or not. He's sacrificed his life. For what?

He detailed specifics about 2 massive surveillance programs, and verified ideas that had characterized a lot of people and groups as conspiracy theorists. For someone with a massive grudge against this guy, you seem to be really uninformed about anything he’s actually done. Did you go to high school with him or something?

He's continent hopping because as an employee with his clearance, he would have been stopped at the airport and questioned if he had just jumped on a plane to a destination that has a reputation for providing asylum. All of this has been covered in the like half dozen interviews he's given since he left the US.

[KarlLeft]

He detailed specifics about 2 massive surveillance programs, and verified ideas that had characterized a lot of people and groups as conspiracy theorists. For someone with a massive grudge against this guy, you seem to be really uninformed about anything he’s actually done. Did you go to high school with him or something?

He's continent hopping because as an employee with his clearance, he would have been stopped at the airport and questioned if he had just jumped on a plane to a destination that has a reputation for providing asylum. All of this has been covered in the like half dozen interviews he's given since he left the US.

Perhaps I am uninformed about what he's done. The media coverage on him is apparently much better outside the U.S. No surprise there.

[KurtFF8]

Evidently he was scheduled to go on a flight to Cuba today but ended up not being on the flight.

I'm surprised he decided against Cuba (if of course that's what happened)

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

I think his best bet, if he doesn't want to be judged in an US court, is going to Guantanamo Bay, which incidentally is in the country he "missed" the flight to.

[Skyhilist]

So he's seeking asylum in Ecuador now. That could be a good thing. After all Ecuador hasn't extradited Julian Assange yet, so that could mean there's at least some hope for him. The US does have extradition treaties with Ecuador, but from what I've heard they've got big loopholes in them that the Ecuadorian government tends to use. Personally, I think Ecuador was his third best bet in that region, although he'd probably be safer in Venezuela or Cuba.

[RadioRaheem84]

I find it ironic that the biggest friends to these libertarian whistleblowers have been leftist governments.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

the information these whistleblowers have leaked is the same kind of information which makes the case for the inherent contradictions in capitalist society that the left makes the case of pointing out.

[KurtFF8]

After all Ecuador hasn't extradited Julian Assange yet, so that could mean there's at least some hope for him.

Ecuador already granted Assange asylum, so they won't extradite him (as that wouldn't make much sense after having granted the asylum)

[Hexen]

But the increasingly neo-tributary character of the US-led imperialism could easily lead to a catastrophic World War III.

I think the article lost all creditability here in the bolded part since it's essentially a conspiracy theorist keyword here for one thing.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Why do people spell America with a "k"? Is their C key not working? At least "Amerikkka", while incredibly stupid, has some meaning.

[Point Blank]

Espionage is a blatant "political crime", which means it would not be included in extradition treaties. A military crime at most, but even those are often excluded by extradition agreements.

Of course, bourgeois governments have no issue with changing the definition of political crimes when they find it convenient ... I remember that case mentioned in Commentaries to the Society of the Spectacle of a German print worker extradited from France to West Germany after his crime of drafting subversive leaflets was judged "social, not political" because "political criminals accept society and do not attack social structures". Ahhh!

[Red Commissar]

Evidently he was scheduled to go on a flight to Cuba today but ended up not being on the flight.

I'm surprised he decided against Cuba (if of course that's what happened)

I was under the impression that he was supposed to fly to Ecuador via Cuba, at least according to some stories. I don't think he was intending to stay in Cuba, just using it as a connection.

[MarxSchmarx]

Ecuador already granted Assange asylum, so they won't extradite him (as that wouldn't make much sense after having granted the asylum)

Another difference is that unlike Snowden, I don't believe the US has charged Assange with any crime, and I'm not sure if ecuador and Sweden have a bilateral extradition treaty.

As an aside, I've always found Assange's fear that Sweden will be more likely to extradite him to America than Britain a bit strange.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Another difference is that unlike Snowden, I don't believe the US has charged Assange with any crime, and I'm not sure if ecuador and Sweden have a bilateral extradition treaty.

As an aside, I've always found Assange's fear that Sweden will be more likely to extradite him to America than Britain a bit strange.

i remember being told that sweden actually has quite an extensive history of extraditing people to the states but i'm not sure if this is true. perhaps someone could shed some light on it either way - it'd make it clear why assange doesn't want to go there.

[Petrol Bomb]

It appears that Putin has refused to extradite Snowden to Washington. Also I would post a link to the article but my post count is too low. Pretty easy to find, either way.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Ah please stop with this 'holier than thou' attitude. 'We' are not some enlightened prophets sent down from the Marxian heavens to purify and raise up the 'masses'. Some of us are just workers too. Perhaps even privileged workers, for having had access to a greater level of education, though of course one could also say that some of us have not used this particularly effectively, judging by some of the daily stupidity posted on here.
I really don't think he's being "holier than thou" saying he's some enlightened prophet or whatever. I'd guess most Americans had no idea the government was spying in on us or at least as extensively as it's been shown. I mean I didn't think it was as extensive as it actually is.


Okay, so I read the link and he explains that he chose Hong Kong because he needed a destination that had the cultural and legal framework that allowed him to work without being detained. Fine.

Still, I question the value of what he and his fellow "citizens of conscience" are doing. It's a good bet his functional life is over whether he's extradited or not. He's sacrificed his life. For what? What's your problem with Snowden? Why would you question the value of him leaking two HUGE stories to the press about government intrusion into our lives. The stuff he leaked is probably going to be the biggest news story of the year, it totally undermines people's opinions of the government/Obama administration. Instead of looking at the information he leaked and how we could use that to further the struggle against the capitalist system you're over here worried about why he leaked it and what it's going to mean for his life. I don't care if it's for selfish reasons, if he just wanted fifteen minutes of fame or whatever and he obviously knew the risks he was taking considering the fact that he got the fuck out of Dodge real quick.

[bcbm]

the political play between powers has become more important than what has been released. guardian should publish more and make the political angle more explicit. this isn't about who harbors what, this is about what he is revealing. which is, of course, the last thing those involved want.

[B5C]

I find it ironic that the biggest friends to these libertarian whistleblowers have been leftist governments.

I have noticed that too. The Libertarians and the ultra-lefists (Marxists & Socialists) have been calling Snowden an hero. Many progressives and some conservatives (many conservatives supporting Snowden as a tool against Obama) have stating that he did the right thing, but he should face charges and not to promote those secretes. WTF?

-Only 39% of Republicans support Prism-style domestic spying, while 58% of Dems support it.
- 54% say Snowden did a "good thing" and 30% disagreed. But 53% say Snowden should be prosecuted for the leak, with 28% saying he should not face legal action.
-That poll indicated Americans divided over Snowden's actions, with 44% saying it was right for Snowden to share information about the surveillance programs and 42% saying it was wrong.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/13/poll-generational-divide-over-snowdens-actions/

[Os Cangaceiros]

the political play between powers has become more important than what has been released. guardian should publish more and make the political angle more explicit. this isn't about who harbors what, this is about what he is revealing. which is, of course, the last thing those involved want.

Yeah, John McCain was on some news show saying how Beijing and Moscow not immediately handing over Snowden was "reminiscent of the Cold War". Some politicians are still amazed when other countries don't immediately say "HOW HIGH, MASTER?" when the USA tells them to jump.

I don't know anyone around where I live who views Snowden as having done anything wrong, in fact I was recently at a social gathering of people around here, mostly of your stereotypically conservative & libertarian leaning people, and this news story was actually brought up a couple times. People here consider him to be a hero. I think there's a lot of domestic support for what he did and I hope future people like him take that into account.

[Os Cangaceiros]

(I'd like to add that this support is not simply based upon knee-jerk Obama hatred, either)

[MarxArchist]

Yeah, John McCain was on some news show saying how Beijing and Moscow not immediately handing over Snowden was "reminiscent of the Cold War". Some politicians are still amazed when other countries don't immediately say "HOW HIGH, MASTER?" when the USA tells them to jump.

I don't know anyone around where I live who views Snowden as having done anything wrong, in fact I was recently at a social gathering of people around here, mostly of your stereotypically conservative & libertarian leaning people, and this news story was actually brought up a couple times. People here consider him to be a hero. I think there's a lot of domestic support for what he did and I hope future people like him take that into account.

What McCain meant to say is, "it's no longer nation states that threaten capitalism it's "individuals" and the same sort of shifty paranoia, scheming and illegal activity the CIA/NSA took part in during the cold war is now going to openly be unleashed on "individuals", as in, the citizenry of any nation at any time be it in the US, Afghanistan, Britain, France, Germany etc so get with it Russia- didn't you get the memo?".


This has been going on since the formation of the CIA and cold war paranoia. With advancing technology anything, and I mean anything, that will let them gather intel is going to be used. Nothing is off limits. The sad thing is people are becoming more and more desensitized to capital becoming more and more authoritarian. Also, the Obama card is still working wonders for the system. If this info came out, lets say, if Romney won the election, people would be out in the streets like they were when Bush was in office protesting the source of this (the patriot act/FISA). Today is slap a liberal day. Lets go celebrate it.

[Pawn Power]

I find it ironic that the biggest friends to these libertarian whistleblowers have been leftist governments.

Why wouldn't they be? One of the primary forces in the world that is fucking up their shit (U.S. economic and military imperialism) is being publicly embarrassed in front of their friends (eastern europe, etc.).

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Interesting clip from students that are questioning the NSA-recruiters at a recruitment of the NSA. https://soundcloud.com/madiha-1/students-question-the-nsa-at

[Hexen]

Bourgeoisie institutions spying on the productive classes is really nothing new. Of course in this case though regarding the entire "War on Terror" and of course the main targets are, it's really nothing more than sadistic racism on their part.