What exactly do the world powers have to gain from getting involved in Syria?

[Lobotomy]

tensions seem to be escalating in Syria, as Russia is sending assistance to Assad and western powers are sending assistance to the rebels. The US has 1000 troops set in Jordan, etc.

my question is.. what's the point? Why does this civil war seem to be escalating into a proxy war between more powerful countries? What does Russia have to gain if the Syrian government wins? what does the US (and allies) have to gain if the rebels win? does Syria have a significant amount of resources? is the US really this desperate to have another ally in the middle east?

[Tim Cornelis]

Unsourced claim which I've been told. Qatar wants to construct an oil pipeline through Syria and Turkey to Europe. Russia opposes this as this would be competition with is Gazprom. Assad opposed it as it is allied with Russia.
This would be the motivation for Russia to take sides with Assad, and the GCC countries to take sides with the opposition.

EDIT:

Additionally, a Sunni victory in Syria may have a 'positive' effect on Sunni insurgents in Dagestan and Chechenya.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Syria is the last ally of Russian-Chinese imperialism in the middle east, they are essential for combating western hegemony because they provide arms to Hezbollah and act as a safe haven for insurgent groups operating in the middle east, without them, Palestine is hopeless and will most likely see an intensification of the zionist attempts to eradicate them, and Iran will have no allies in the region capable of defending them. Additionally they provide a naval base for Russia and their demise would be as devastating to the Russian navy as the aftermath of the 1905 Russo-Japanese War. After that, Russia will have no means to defend it's self from the southern front.

The US wants to eliminate the Syrian regime because once that occurs, then Russia will be in a similar position as Cuba is today, isolated with allies too far in between.

Syria itself has no natural resources and has long sold out to imperialism, being the 4th largest recipient of foreign investment in the middle east.

So naturally, as Communists, we side with no one and oppose any attempt at expanding imperial spheres of influence. Though it is arguable that the Kurds deserve support on the basis that they are an oppressed minority, however this should be critical and conditional support.

[barbelo]

Sadly people are only seeing Syria in the lights of an imperialism war.
Anyone with their heads in place can see a Sunni bloc formed by Saudi Arabia, Gulf countries and Egypt in one side, and a Shia group formed by Iran, Syria and Hezbollah on the other: this is only a sectarian war. Go see Al-Jazeera- or should we call it: The official Qatar commentary on the region- and see their position on the matter.

It's surprising to say that, but Usa and Russia are holding their hands in this case, or at least mostly holding their hands, and the arab lobby in Usa are unable to bring the Usa to action in Syria. Russia only care about its naval assets there.

But considering Syria as a... Chinese ally is naivety at best. What kind of geopolitics is involved in such assumption? Fight against what western hegemony, the one that have factories and filial all over China? Or the one to whom Russia sell it gas and oil?

[khad]

Sadly people are only seeing Syria in the lights of an imperialism war.
Anyone with their heads in place can see a Sunni bloc formed by Saudi Arabia, Gulf countries and Egypt in one side, and a Shia group formed by Iran, Syria and Hezbollah on the other: this is only a sectarian war. Go see Al-Jazeera- or should we call it: The official Qatar commentary on the region- and see their position on the matter.
That's what the Gulf states want you to think. FYI, most of the Syrian Army is Sunni.

[cyu]

;)

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/200/5/d/No_War_But_the_Class_War_by_zf1223.png

Of course, the best way for imperial powers to impose their domination would be to try to incite divisions between those they seek to dominate - for example, fake bomb attacks between different groups of Muslims, in an attempt to get them to start real bomb attacks against each other.

[warmonger]

Your idealism makes me sad.
Class struggle is often the propagator of real war

[Mather]

my question is.. what's the point? Why does this civil war seem to be escalating into a proxy war between more powerful countries?

All of the major imperialist powers (and some regional ones) are getting involved in the Syrian civil war to promote and pursue their own interests. Some of the reasons that the imperialist powers have for getting involved do not necessarily have anything to do with Syria itself but with wider interests in the Middle East. The Middle East holds great strategic and economic value to any power that can impose their interests in the region. Besides huge oil and natural gas reserves, there is also constant maneuvering by the imperialist powers to control vitally strategic areas like the Suez Canal, the Gulf of Aden and the Persian Gulf.


What does Russia have to gain if the Syrian government wins?

It gets to keep in power it's only real ally in the Middle East, the Assad regime. The Assad regime is the main client for Russian weapons in the Middle East. Russia also has a naval base in the Syrian port city of Tartus, it's only base in the Mediterranean.


what does the US (and allies) have to gain if the rebels win?

For the US and it's allies, getting involved in the Syrian civil war is part of their wider campaign to isolate and encircle Iran. The fall of the Assad regime would deprive Iran of it's only major ally in the Middle East, which is also the only Arab state to be on good terms with the Iranian regime.

It is also possible that Israel would like to see the back of the Assad regime, however as most of the rebels now appear to be Salafists it is hard to tell how a victory for the rebels would be any better from the point of view of the Israeli ruling class.


does Syria have a significant amount of resources?

No, hardly any oil or natural gas. Syria is not Iraq.


is the US really this desperate to have another ally in the middle east?

I think other interests to do with the wider Middle East are at play here as the US already has plenty of allies in that region.

[cyu]

Your idealism makes me sad.
Class struggle is often the propagator of real war


There already is real war. It is used as a tool by the ruling class to distract attention away from their corrupt and incompetent domestic policies.

[Nakidana]

;)

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/200/5/d/No_War_But_the_Class_War_by_zf1223.png

Of course, the best way for imperial powers to impose their domination would be to try to incite divisions between those they seek to dominate - for example, fake bomb attacks between different groups of Muslims, in an attempt to get them to start real bomb attacks against each other.

Do you have any evidence of these "fake bomb attacks"? I've heard a few people claiming this is the case, not only in Syria, but in Pakistan and Iraq as well. It sounds like a conspiracy theory tbh, cause every time I ask for a source I get some nonsense about the US wanting to incite a Sunni Shia split to create instability in the countries they're occupying.

[cyu]

It's just standard operating procedure. Read any counter-insurgency manual produced by the military - it's even deployed domestically to "tame" local movements like the civil rights movement or occupy (although actual terrorist-style bombing may not be as emphasized as other methods of sowing division).

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Israeli-Arab animosity is fueled by such action. Given the oil-strength of the Middle East, what is to prevent that entire region from becoming an economic powerhouse, and in consequence, a military powerhouse as well? As long as they are busy fighting amongst themselves, whether Iraq-vs-Iran or Israel-vs-Everyone, the traditional colonial powers can ensure they will be too busy to gain any real traction on the world stage.

[Agathor]

without them, Palestine is hopeless and will most likely see an intensification of the zionist attempts to eradicate them

This is rubbish. Syria does nothing to help the Palestinians. If anything their facade of anti-zionist militancy lets Israel keep using the "surrounded by bloodthirsty arabs" narrative to justify the occupation abroad.

[baronci]

The US wants to eliminate the Syrian regime because once that occurs, then Russia will be in a similar position as Cuba is today, isolated with allies too far in between.

i'm sorry but thinking that Russia could ever be in a similar situation as Cuba just because of the loss of Syrian support is pretty ridiculous and naive. Putin isn't being entirely supportive of Assad, and the US isn't being entirely supportive of the opposition - neither side has completely made up their mind.

[GerrardWinstanley]

The advancement of US military hegemony in the Levant and wider Middle East by destroying the Syrian state and Hezbollah resistance which depends on it. This should prepare the ground for an eventual invasion of oil-rich Iran and the wiping out of Palestine, but more broadly, the division of the MENA along ethnic, sectarian lines (e.g. the 'Sahelistan' project in the Mahgreb) to further weaken and divide the Arabs.

A longer term objective is the military of defeat of China and Russia, who stand in the way of America's pursuit of global military takeover.

[blake 3:17]

There already is real war. It is used as a tool by the ruling class to distract attention away from their corrupt and incompetent domestic policies.

???? It's a civil war that quickly became a proxy war

[cyu]

This should prepare the ground for an eventual invasion of oil-rich Iran


Well, you can't fight the foreign policy ministry of Exxon-Mobile - they're the ones who pay for my TV attack ads ;)

[Paul Cockshott]

Some people claim that the motivation behind Qatar and the Saudi's involvment is to prevent the prospect of a gas pipeline through Syria from Iran to the Mediterranean which would threaten their dominant position in the world energy market. See here : http://nsnbc.me/2013/07/12/scramble-for-foreign-political-influence-over-egypt-between-gulf-i/