Offensive portrayal of gay people

[Beeth]

I am NOT talking about explicit homophobia.

Even shows/movies that want to show gay people in a favorable light end up showing them as sex-obsessed people and NOT as people who have the same concerns as straight people such as paying bills, getting jobs, etc. It is always about men, sex, parties, etc., as if gay people have no life outside of their sexual orientation.

In short, they show gay people as gay but not as people. Contrast this with how they show straight folks - it is multidimensional, straight people are shown as many, many things, of which sexual orientation is a part. But gay folks are shown in the stereotypical, one-dimensional manner. The directors/writers do it inadvertently, but it is there.

Can gay people share their thoughts?

[Quail]

I don't really watch much TV (and I identify as bi, not gay) so I don't know if this is a particularly valid opinion, but I tend to get the impression that a lot of gay characters on TV tend to be represented with their sexuality as part of the storyline, as opposed to just being characters who happen to be gay. I think it would be nice to see gay or bisexual characters where their sexuality isn't made a big deal of. Hope that makes sense.

[Rafiq]

Knowing beeth this is merely a means of expressing his dissatisfaction about gays being too open about their sexuality. He has a reactionary mind, it's so easy to tell.

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[Beeth]

I don't really watch much TV (and I identify as bi, not gay) so I don't know if this is a particularly valid opinion, but I tend to get the impression that a lot of gay characters on TV tend to be represented with their sexuality as part of the storyline, as opposed to just being characters who happen to be gay. I think it would be nice to see gay or bisexual characters where their sexuality isn't made a big deal of. Hope that makes sense.

Exactly, but I think this is done with good intentions. In their eagerness to attack homophobia (and to show that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality), directors/writers tend to go to another extreme, forgetting that gay people are people too and aren't 'tied down' to their sexuality.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Exactly, but I think this is done with good intentions. In their eagerness to attack homophobia (and to show that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality), directors/writers tend to go to another extreme, forgetting that gay people are people too and aren't 'tied down' to their sexuality.

Aye, though, at the same time, the "just like us naratives!" of successful gay yuppies, etc. that write working class gays, queer freaks, etc. let alone any sort of combative queer politics, out of the picture is equally problematic.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Well, most of the people responsible for this are bourgeois white heterosexual liberals, and they haven't done much better over the years with people of color, for example.

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

Yeah, I agree. It's well-meaning, in a way to promote people who are "other" in our society, but so often it's done in a kind of patronising way that still panders to stereotypes so as not to offend the sensibilities or scare away a "mainstream" audience.

[Sam_b]

It would be helpful if Beeth highlighted some examples.

Can we also stop this thing where we see 'gay' as some sort of opposite of straight? I think OP's post is problematic in the sense that I am unsure if he's using 'gay' as a way to refer to LGBT people or exclusively to (presumably) homosexual men, who are the most commonly depicted LGBT group on television.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Well, most of the people responsible for this are bourgeois white heterosexual liberals, and they haven't done much better over the years with people of color, for example.

Seth McFarlene, Matt Stone and Tray Parker come to mind (along with a host of others). These people believe that in using stereotypes they will somehow increase positive awareness among the heteronormative current-wrong; in fact by only depicting, and furthering, absurd images of Queer people they are doing a great amount of damage.

I talked more about this in my Kasama article: "Queer Equality and the Media" (http://kasamaarchive.org/2012/07/25/the-liberal-media-establishment-friends-or-enemies-or/).

In short: privilege negates creating progress while stuck in reactionary mind-sets.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

(Identify as bi, btw)

I kind of get what beeth is trying to say. Far too many gay characters in modern media are basically one-dimensional stereotypes, even if they are created for the best intentions.

Of course, it should be remembered that many of these characters are one-offs in the first place, meant to highlight the problem of homophobia. The problem with this approach is that there's no time to develop them as characters.

That being said, I do rather like Big Gay Al from South Park (mostly because I've known guys like him). It should be remembered that 'camp gays' and drag queens do actually exist, and should be respected as individuals.

And always remember that it was those very 'camp gays' and drag queens that threw the first brick at Stonewall.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

(Identify as bi, btw)

I kind of get what beeth is trying to say. Far too many gay characters in modern media are basically one-dimensional stereotypes, even if they are created for the best intentions.

Of course, it should be remembered that many of these characters are one-offs in the first place, meant to highlight the problem of homophobia. The problem with this approach is that there's no time to develop them as characters.

That being said, I do rather like Big Gay Al from South Park (mostly because I've known guys like him). It should be remembered that 'camp gays' and drag queens do actually exist, and should be respected as individuals.

And always remember that it was those very 'camp gays' and drag queens that threw the first brick at Stonewall.

No one is saying that the people who stereotypes are based off of do not exist, on the contrary: (certain) stereotypes exists because a certain amount of people behave in a certain way. However, what is taken as offensive is when bourgeois artists only depicts members of a certain minority in a certain way thus propagating the mistaken belief among the dominant that everyone from that minority is like that instead of being, well, human and different and unique so as far as everyone is different and unique.

[UncleLenin]

I don't really watch much TV (and I identify as bi, not gay) so I don't know if this is a particularly valid opinion, but I tend to get the impression that a lot of gay characters on TV tend to be represented with their sexuality as part of the storyline, as opposed to just being characters who happen to be gay. I think it would be nice to see gay or bisexual characters where their sexuality isn't made a big deal of. Hope that makes sense.

This is my thoughts exactly. The sexuality of the character is usually the dominant theme and it would be nice if the characters sexuality wasn't the focus point. Minor references to sexuality is okay.;)

[NeonTrotski]

I think criticizing the positive portrayals of gay but shallow characters on tv is a bit silly.
What are these programs that have deep and complex straight characters but shallow gay characters.
And many, especially young gay people are more open with their sexuality. Folks of all orientations that come from sexually repressive backgrounds often are very (if you want to say overly) open with their sexuality. Straight women from sexually repressive religious cults like Catholicism, Islam or Hindu are often very open and outward with their sexuality when they are able to free themselves from that position.
But possibly the OP sees overtly sexual women as less mentally troublesome than outwardly sexual gay males. Strange that you don't mention the shallow, one dimensional portrayal of outwardly sexual/promiscuous woman on tv or in movies, a very common character.
I understand the totally valid annoyance of seeing people you identify with or are sympathetic towards poorly or inaccurately portrayed. But consider how blacks must feel constantly seeing tv and movies as always portraying black men as being tough, ghetto hardened warriors that are always angry instead of every day humans like everyone else. How do you think Arabs feel.
Gay oppression and womens sexual oppression are serious world wide problems that exist in a context larger than annoying stereotypes on tv.
Again I find it peculiar that the OPs impression would seem to be that this is specific to gays and not women, blacks and other minorities or peoples of oppressed classes or castes.

[The Feral Underclass]

Again I find it peculiar that the OPs impression would seem to be that this is specific to gays and not women, blacks and other minorities or peoples of oppressed classes or castes.

So your argument is that people can't identify specific latent homophobia without also discussing other forms of latent oppression?

[Ace High]

I think criticizing the positive portrayals of gay but shallow characters on tv is a bit silly.
What are these programs that have deep and complex straight characters but shallow gay characters.
And many, especially young gay people are more open with their sexuality. Folks of all orientations that come from sexually repressive backgrounds often are very (if you want to say overly) open with their sexuality. Straight women from sexually repressive religious cults like Catholicism, Islam or Hindu are often very open and outward with their sexuality when they are able to free themselves from that position.
But possibly the OP sees overtly sexual women as less mentally troublesome than outwardly sexual gay males. Strange that you don't mention the shallow, one dimensional portrayal of outwardly sexual/promiscuous woman on tv or in movies, a very common character.
I understand the totally valid annoyance of seeing people you identify with or are sympathetic towards poorly or inaccurately portrayed. But consider how blacks must feel constantly seeing tv and movies as always portraying black men as being tough, ghetto hardened warriors that are always angry instead of every day humans like everyone else. How do you think Arabs feel.
Gay oppression and womens sexual oppression are serious world wide problems that exist in a context larger than annoying stereotypes on tv.
Again I find it peculiar that the OPs impression would seem to be that this is specific to gays and not women, blacks and other minorities or peoples of oppressed classes or castes.

Ok smartass, the thread is specifically talking about homophobia. There are other threads for other specific types of oppression.

[NeonTrotski]

Ok smartass, the thread is specifically talking about homophobia. There are other threads for other specific types of oppression.

I wasn't intending to be a smart ass. I'm saying they have similarities.
Trying to give examples of similar media portrayals. If this thread is about homophobia and the media, does that exclude other media analysis?

I reiterate I think the shallow portrayal of gays is similar to other stereotypes of oppressed peoples portrayed by big media.

[Ace High]

I wasn't intending to be a smart ass. I'm saying they have similarities.
Trying to give examples of similar media portrayals. If this thread is about homophobia and the media, does that exclude other media analysis?

I reiterate I think the shallow portrayal of gays is similar to other stereotypes of oppressed peoples portrayed by big media.

No I mean the comparison is fine and you're absolutely right. However, it just seemed that you were criticizing the OP where they shouldn't have been criticized, that's all.

[NeonTrotski]

No I mean the comparison is fine and you're absolutely right. However, it just seemed that you were criticizing the OP where they shouldn't have been criticized, that's all.

Yeah sorry it just seems like homophobia disguised as something else. I could be wrong.
It reminds me of anti suffrage rhetoric. Protecting women from politics.
This is just personal conjecture though. I apologize if I have offended the OP. It's not an objectionable stance at all.

[BIXX]

I think criticizing the positive portrayals of gay but shallow characters on tv is a bit silly.
What are these programs that have deep and complex straight characters but shallow gay characters.
And many, especially young gay people are more open with their sexuality. Folks of all orientations that come from sexually repressive backgrounds often are very (if you want to say overly) open with their sexuality. Straight women from sexually repressive religious cults like Catholicism, Islam or Hindu are often very open and outward with their sexuality when they are able to free themselves from that position.
But possibly the OP sees overtly sexual women as less mentally troublesome than outwardly sexual gay males. Strange that you don't mention the shallow, one dimensional portrayal of outwardly sexual/promiscuous woman on tv or in movies, a very common character.
I understand the totally valid annoyance of seeing people you identify with or are sympathetic towards poorly or inaccurately portrayed. But consider how blacks must feel constantly seeing tv and movies as always portraying black men as being tough, ghetto hardened warriors that are always angry instead of every day humans like everyone else. How do you think Arabs feel.
Gay oppression and womens sexual oppression are serious world wide problems that exist in a context larger than annoying stereotypes on tv.
Again I find it peculiar that the OPs impression would seem to be that this is specific to gays and not women, blacks and other minorities or peoples of oppressed classes or castes.

A lot of your post seems to be denying that gays are shown far too stereotypically in TV shows (even with good intentions) or excusing it.

TV shows where it happens? That godawful piece of shit show, Glee. It's awful.

I think you do have a valid point about how it happens with other minorities as well.