Mao 70% 30%

[Akshay!]

I've read that the Communist Part of China says that they think Mao was 70% right and 30% wrong. What does that mean? Which 70% and 30% are they talking about? Which part of his philosophy do they agree with and which part do they disagree with?

Also, what's your opinion about the CPC? Will it ever change its policy and start supporting national liberation struggles in the future?

[Dropdead]

CPC has been utter shit since 1978 when Mao died. Before that it was pretty good imo.

[Akshay!]

CPC has been utter shit since 1978 when Mao died. Before that it was pretty good imo.

What's with the 70 - 30 rule though?

[DDR]

CPC has been utter shit since 1978 when Mao died. Before that it was pretty good imo.

Last years of Mao were also very shitty.

[Akshay!]

A more detailed analysis with reasoning, etc.. would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Well, I'm about to go to take finals in a minute so this will be short, but ah well.

When Stalin died, Mao initially endorsed the de-stalinization process because he thought that Stalin was wrong in many issues and said many problematic things theoretically, such as his suggestion that the law of value operates under socialism.He only came to reject the process when it became apparent that it was only a justification for market reforms in the USSR, and for Kruschevite revisionism that suggested that there was a "peaceful" path to power and that the socialist bloc didn't need to fight foreign imperialism (but did need to invade uppity rebels in Hungary and Czech to keep their neo-imperial sphere of influence together). So Mao said that Stalin was 30% to encompass his obvious errors, and 70% correct to acknoweldge his accomplishments and to note that it is wrong to completly reject Stalin, or at least on the right-wing basis Kruschev did.

When Deng came to power, Mao was still very popular. But the Dengist faction was attacked during the Cultural Revolution and the last thing Mao ordered before his death was the Criticize Deng campaign. So in order for Deng to reject Mao's attacks on him and other right wing reformers while keeping in the spirit of Maoism, he used the same method as Mao used for Stalin.

[Comrade #138672]

The 30% of Mao's ideas were socialist?

[Sky Hedgehogian Maestro]

I've read that the Communist Part(y) of China says that they think Mao was 70% right and 30% wrong. What does that mean? Which 70% and 30% are they talking about? Which part of his philosophy do they agree with and which part do they disagree with?

Also, what's your opinion about the CPC? Will it ever change its policy and start supporting national liberation struggles in the future?

CPC=ridiculous.

And this whole "70-30" thing is kind of... interesting.

[a_wild_MAGIKARP]

They could have just said it to appeal to Chinese Maoists, to try and fool them into thinking the party hasn't changed all that much... and they could have just made up the percentages too.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

Are Mao's unexpurgated writings widely available in China, or are all of his books in censored or revised forms? Because you'd think there would be another revolution by now.

[Akshay!]

Well, I'm about to go to take finals in a minute so this will be short, but ah well.

When Stalin died, Mao initially endorsed the de-stalinization process because he thought that Stalin was wrong in many issues and said many problematic things theoretically, such as his suggestion that the law of value operates under socialism.He only came to reject the process when it became apparent that it was only a justification for market reforms in the USSR, and for Kruschevite revisionism that suggested that there was a "peaceful" path to power and that the socialist bloc didn't need to fight foreign imperialism (but did need to invade uppity rebels in Hungary and Czech to keep their neo-imperial sphere of influence together). So Mao said that Stalin was 30% to encompass his obvious errors, and 70% correct to acknoweldge his accomplishments and to note that it is wrong to completly reject Stalin, or at least on the right-wing basis Kruschev did.

When Deng came to power, Mao was still very popular. But the Dengist faction was attacked during the Cultural Revolution and the last thing Mao ordered before his death was the Criticize Deng campaign. So in order for Deng to reject Mao's attacks on him and other right wing reformers while keeping in the spirit of Maoism, he used the same method as Mao used for Stalin.

Interesting. So the obvious next question would be - is the current CPC really 70% Maoist?:confused:

[Per Levy]

Interesting. So the obvious next question would be - is the current CPC really 70% Maoist?:confused:

well one thing is for sure, the current cpc is to 100% capitalist.

[Rural Comrade]

Yeah Deng turned them all into capitalist and was furthered by his successor Jiang Zemin and the oppression will stop a revolution at all costs.

[Devrim]

Also, what's your opinion about the CPC? Will it ever change its policy and start supporting national liberation struggles in the future?

China, as an imperialist state, will support national liberation struggles when they are in its own national interests, and support their brutal suppression when they are against its interests, a bit like the US really.

Devrim

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

China, as an imperialist state, will support national liberation struggles when they are in its own national interests, and support their brutal suppression when they are against its interests, a bit like the US really.

Devrim

Considering China's holdings in Africa, I severely doubt that. They sponsered national liberation struggles against India during Deng and I believe Burma (but I could be wrong) however I doubt they still do

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Are Mao's unexpurgated writings widely available in China, or are all of his books in censored or revised forms? Because you'd think there would be another revolution by now.

Most of them are restricted. The Chinese government tried to attack the Marxist Internet Archive for translating his works into Chinese. However I do believe they give copies of the Little Red Book to students in the Chinese Communist Party Youth, which makes sense because that book was always a rightist text designed to appease leftists.


Interesting. So the obvious next question would be - is the current CPC really 70% Maoist?:confused:

Depends on how we define Maoism, if we take Maoism as the anti-revisionist ideology that was developed in China during the Chinese Revolution, that was later formulated as a quantitative leap in Marxism at the 1993 conference of the Revolutionary Internationalist Movement, then not in the slightest since that ideology is in opposition to capitalism and encompasses contemporary China as a capitalist state. "Maoism" is actually the derogatory term used by the contemporary Communist Party of China to mock present Marxist-Leninist-Maoist parties, the term they use is Marxist-Leninist Mao Zedong Thought to describe their own brand of Maoism.

When Deng came to power, he enshrined Mao Zedong Thought in the constitution as one of the four cardinal principles of the ideology of the Chinese state. However, in order to negate the role of Mao, they place this ideology within the context of Post-Maoist ideologies that were formulated by the later leaders of the CPC. This way they can claim to keep in his tradition while superseding him. To quote the Constitution of the Communist Party of China:


the Communist Party of China is the vanguard both of the Chinese working class and of the Chinese people and the Chinese nation. It is the core of leadership for the cause of socialism with Chinese characteristics and represents the development trend of China's advanced productive forces, the orientation of China's advanced culture and the fundamental interests of the overwhelming majority of the Chinese people. The realization of communism is the highest ideal and ultimate goal of the Party.

The Communist Party of China takes Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought, Deng Xiaoping Theory, the important thought of Three Represents and the Scientific Outlook on Development as its guide to action.

Marxism-Leninism brings to light the laws governing the development of the history of human society. Its basic tenets are correct and have tremendous vitality. The highest ideal of communism pursued by the Chinese Communists can be realized only when the socialist society is fully developed and highly advanced. The development and improvement of the socialist system is a long historical process. So long as the Chinese Communists uphold the basic tenets of Marxism-Leninism and follow the road suited to China's specific conditions and chosen by the Chinese people of their own accord, the socialist cause in China will be crowned with final victory.

The Chinese Communists, with Comrade Mao Zedong as their chief representative, created Mao Zedong Thought by integrating the basic tenets of Marxism-Leninism with the concrete practice of the Chinese revolution. Mao Zedong Thought is Marxism-Leninism applied and developed in China; it consists of a body of theoretical principles concerning the revolution and construction in China and a summary of experience therein, both of which have been proved correct by practice; and it represents the crystallized, collective wisdom of the Communist Party of China. Under the guidance of Mao Zedong Thought, the Communist Party of China led the people of all ethnic groups in the country in their prolonged revolutionary struggle against imperialism, feudalism and bureaucrat-capitalism, winning victory in the new-democratic revolution and founding the People's Republic of China, a people's democratic dictatorship. After the founding of the People's Republic, it led them in carrying out socialist transformation successfully, completing the transition from New Democracy to socialism, establishing the basic system of socialism and developing socialism economically, politically and culturally.

After the Third Plenary Session of the Eleventh Party Central Committee, the Chinese Communists, with Comrade Deng Xiaoping as their chief representative, analyzed their experience, both positive and negative, gained since the founding of the People's Republic, emancipated their minds, sought truth from facts, shifted the focus of the work of the whole Party onto economic development and carried out reform and opening to the outside world, ushering in a new era of development in the cause of socialism, gradually formulating the line, principles and policies concerning the building of socialism with Chinese characteristics and expounding the basic questions concerning the building, consolidation and development of socialism in China, and thus creating Deng Xiaoping Theory. Deng Xiaoping Theory is the outcome of the integration of the basic tenets of Marxism-Leninism with the practice of contemporary China and the features of the times, a continuation and development of Mao Zedong Thought under new historical conditions; it represents a new stage of development of Marxism in China, it is Marxism of contemporary China and it is the crystallized, collective wisdom of the Communist Party of China. It is guiding the socialist modernization of China from victory to victory.

After the Fourth Plenary Session of the Thirteenth Party Central Committee and in the practice of building socialism with Chinese characteristics, the Chinese Communists, with Comrade Jiang Zemin as their chief representative, acquired a deeper understanding of what socialism is, how to build it and what kind of party to build and how to build it, accumulated new valuable experience in running the Party and state and formed the important thought of Three Represents. The important thought of Three Represents is a continuation and development of Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought and Deng Xiaoping Theory; it reflects new requirements for the work of the Party and state arising from the developments and changes in China and other parts of the world today; it serves as a powerful theoretical weapon for strengthening and improving Party building and for promoting self-improvement and development of socialism in China; and it is the crystallized, collective wisdom of the Communist Party of China. It is a guiding ideology that the Party must uphold for a long time to come. Persistent implementation of the Three Represents is the foundation for building the Party, the cornerstone for its governance and the source of its strength.

Since the Party's Sixteenth National Congress, the Chinese Communists with Comrade Hu Jintao as their chief representative, following the guidance of Deng Xiaoping Theory and the important thought of Three Represents, have gained a deep understanding of major questions such as what kind of development China should achieve under new conditions and how it should achieve it to meet new requirements for development and answered these questions, and thus developed the Scientific Outlook on Development that puts people first and calls for comprehensive, balanced and sustainable development. The Scientific Outlook on Development is a scientific theory that is both in keeping with Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought, Deng Xiaoping Theory and the important thought of Three Represents and is in step with the times. It fully embodies the Marxist worldview on and methodology for development and represents the latest achievement in adapting Marxism to China's conditions. It is the crystallization of the collective wisdom of the Communist Party of China and a guiding ideology that must be upheld and applied in developing socialism with Chinese characteristics.

The fundamental reason behind all of China's achievements and progress since the reform and opening up policy was introduced is, in the final analysis, that the Party has blazed a path of socialism with Chinese characteristics, formulated the system of theories of socialism with Chinese characteristics, and established the socialist system with Chinese characteristics. All Party members must cherish the path, the theories and the socialist system that the Party has explored and created after going through all the hardships; and they must keep to them all the time and continue to develop them. They must hold high the great banner of socialism with Chinese characteristics and strive to fulfill the three historic tasks of advancing the modernization drive, achieving national reunification, and safeguarding world peace and promoting common development.


I highlighted the bold bits for the people who did not want to read the whole thing, but I left this section in tact for those who are interested.

This way, they are not revising Maoism, they are just adding to it and in the process, de-emphasizing every individual component of their ideology as to make it easier to "develop" it even further.

[CatsAttack]

Most of them are restricted. The Chinese government tried to attack the Marxist Internet Archive [/b]for translating his works into Chinese.[/b]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

His works aren't restricted and available in every major book store and online.

[ind_com]

What's with the 70 - 30 rule though?

It is a Chinese way of saying that something is mostly good and a little bad or vice versa.

[DaringMehring]

It is a Chinese way of saying that something is mostly good and a little bad or vice versa.

All historical particulars aside, have to appreciate this attitude. Only a complete idealist could say that something was 100% good or bad, but unfortunately there is a religious streak in the socialist movement where people defend a certain figure basically like they were a God or attack as if they were a demon.

In reality even the best made errors, for example Lenin admitted mistakes and not small ones -- like thinking Russia would have to proceed through a bourgeois revolution before a socialist one, the famous "democratic dictatorship of the workers and peasants in a bourgeois republic" idea which he later scrapped saying it was just wrong.

And conversely, even people who got some big things wrong, often have a lot to teach. Take Julius Martov. He was simply wrong about the Russian Revolution. But he did accurately point out some of its flaws and so while he was wrong on the big question, if people had paid more attention to his criticisms, they would have found value and would have made it better.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

I've read that there is a New Left movement in China that is openly challenging the Chinese government, using Mao as there inspiration. They also are openly supportive of individual freedoms like freedom of speech. Is this true?

[Fourth Internationalist]

I've read that there is a New Left movement in China that is openly challenging the Chinese government, using Mao as there inspiration. They also are openly supportive of individual freedoms like freedom of speech. Is this true?

I don't know but if it's true then I'm all for it (except Mao wasn't exactly a big champion of freedom). Either way, I hope there is such a movement.

[Sarcosuchus]

I've read that the Communist Part of China says that they think Mao was 70% right and 30% wrong. What does that mean? Which 70% and 30% are they talking about? Which part of his philosophy do they agree with and which part do they disagree with?

Also, what's your opinion about the CPC? Will it ever change its policy and start supporting national liberation struggles in the future?

I doubt it has anything to do with the numbers 70 and 30. It's just that for now Mao was 70% right, but soon they will start saying that it was actually 60%... later 50%... 30%... eventually, 0%...

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

I don't know but if it's true then I'm all for it (except Mao wasn't exactly a big champion of freedom). Either way, I hope there is such a movement.

Actually, despite some protralls of the Cultural Revolution, Mao had little to do with starting it. The Cultural Revolution began when a literary critic critiqued a play in Beijing for glorifying feudalism and the local police arrested him. Soon after, students went into riot and the local government was partiually overthrown. When Mao was asked to put down the movement, he refused and endorsed the actions of the students, and declared it was "right to rebel". Hence, the cultural revolution began. There are two short documents in particular where he endorsed the students, though there are plenty more:

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-9/mswv9_60.htm

I have received both the big-character posters which you sent on 28 July as well as the letter which you sent to me, asking for an answer. The two big-character posters which you wrote on 24 June and 4 July express your anger at, and denunciation of, all landlords, bourgeois, imperialists, revisionists, and their running dogs who exploit and oppress the workers, peasants, revolutionary intellectuals and revolutionary parties and groupings. You say it is right to rebel against reactionaries; I enthusiastically support you. I also give enthusiastic support to the big-character poster of the Red Flag Combat Group of Peking University Middle School which said that it is right to rebel against the reactionaries; and to the very good revolutionary speech given by comrade P’eng Hsiao-meng representing their Red Flag Combat Group at the big meeting attended by all the teachers, students, administration and workers of Peking University on 25 July. Here I want to say that I myself as well as my revolutionary comrades-in-arms all take the same attitude. No matter where they are, in Peking or anywhere in China, I will give enthusiastic support to all who take an attitude similar to yours in the Cultural Revolution movement. Another thing, while supporting you, at the same time we ask you to pay attention to uniting with all who can be united with. As for those who have committed serious mistakes, after their mistakes have been pointed out you should offer them a way out of their difficulties by giving them work to do, and enabling them to correct their mistakes and become new men. Marx said: the proletariat must emancipate not only itself but all mankind. If it cannot emancipate all mankind, then the proletariat itself will not be able to achieve final emancipation. Will comrades please pay attention to this truth too.


Here is where the famous Maoist expression "Bombard the Headquarters" originated, which expresses the necessity for the proletariat to continue the revolution even after the seizure of state power, in order to continue the class struggle and maintain the proletarian nature of the state and to eventually abolish it.

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-9/mswv9_63.htm


‘China’s first Marxist-Leninist big character poster and Commentator’s article on it in Renmin Ribao (People’s Daily) are indeed superbly written! Comrades, please read them again. But in the last fifty days or so some leading comrades from the central down to the local levels have acted in a diametrically opposite way. Adopting the reactionary stand of the bourgeoisie, they have enforced a bourgeois dictatorship and struck down the surging movement of the great cultural revolution of the proletariat. They have stood facts on their head and juggled black and white, encircled and suppressed revolutionaries, stifled opinions differing from their own, imposed a white terror, and felt very pleased with themselves. They have puffed up the arrogance of the bourgeoisie and deflated the morale of the proletariat. How poisonous! Viewed in connection with the Right deviation in 1962 and the wrong tendency of 1964 which was ‘Left’ in form but Right in essence, shouldn’t this make one wide awake?


During the Cultural Revolution, the "Four Freedoms" were added to the constitution, which amounted to the right to strike, the right to petition grievances, and the right to debate openly.( Mobo Gao, The Battle of China's Past)

Additionally, Mao himself supported the right to bear arms, even when students and workers to up arms against party officials. Because of Mao's support of the right to bear arms, there were no major regulations against the purchase of weapons until 1981 (The Passion of Mao)

All of these freedoms were removed when Deng took power, and mass arrests took place to make room for the Post-Mao transition.

[Astarte]

What's with the 70 - 30 rule though?

The "70 -30 rule" is actually somewhat of a saying in China. For example, the novel Romance of the Three Kingdoms is said to be 70% historical and 30% fictional by Chinese sources - it is just meant to mean exactly what it mathematically purports to - more or less overwhelmingly one way or another.