Al Nusra commit another civilian massacre - this time in Hatla

[Manar]

Over 1,000 Syrian rebels sporting Al-Qaeda bands and waving Al-Qaeda flags stormed a Shia village, Hatla, butchering 60 civilians including at least one 2 year old girl(the rebels call anti-FSA civilians "shebeeha militiamen", clearly somebody needs to teach them that 2 year old girks are not militiamen), on Wednesday. Some FSA officials are saying this was revenge for an attack on a rebel checkpoint or base by pro-government forces, others are saying this was revenge for the liberation of Qusayr(the rebels in the videos are saying this was for Qusayr - the Syrian Arab Army and Hezbollah allies liberated the strategic town of Qusayr, where many rebel smugglers operated from, on June 5, killing 1,300 rebels and capturing over a 1,000 of whom 63 percent were foreigners).

http://www.syrianews.cc/alert-nato-false-flags-increase-syria-massacres/

More than 60 civilians mostly women and children were massacred by terrorists from one of the ‘Free Syrian Army’ branches, most likely the Wahhabi Nusra Front in the Hatlah town, Der Ezzor countryside, north of Syria. The town consists of mostly Shiite residents. Some of the top scholars and their families were among the slaughtered, many were kidnapped by the Wahhabi attackers.
The crime was reported by the culprits themselves on social media sites bragging about their crime ‘liberating’ the town from the infidel Shiites in their believe. Wahhabis consider everybody else an infidel and should be killed, which makes them themselves the infidels by the vast majority of Muslim scholars and based on explicit Islamic teaching, prophet Muhammad said: ‘Who calls his brother an infidel, one of them is, if he was like what he called him or it gets back at him’ meaning: if a Muslim denies another Muslim his religion by calling him an infidel, one of them is definitely an infidel, if he was right in his description or if he is accusing falsely the description comes back at him. Wahhabis resurface from time to time in the Islamic history, they were more known as ‘Khawarij’, who ‘left the religion’, and their best description was: ‘Khawarij kill Muslims in the name of Islam and ally with enemies of Islam’. Thus the less fortunate poor and less educated can be easily manipulated by the systematic media campaign and abundant money spent by NATO stooges like Qatar & Saudi Arabia.
What’s more alarming from this horrific heinous massacre is the fact it was reported by the London based British MI6 outlet known as SOHR or Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, which worked as a main source for propaganda for the FSA for the past 26 months of the Syrian crisis, promoting their crimes as ‘fighting the aggressors’ and ‘defending civilians’. In addition to the fact they knew about the crime first hand as usual (Houla massacre for instance), their reporting of it and not accusing the Syrian Arab Army of killing their own families this time comes in a new plan by NATO to interfere but this time in their ‘War on Terror’ series of ‘regime changes’ and ‘wars’ worldwide to eliminate the terrorists in Syria.
First they covertly send mercenaries to wreck havoc then they overtly support oppositions and then they interfere militarily. Syria is not like anywhere else they managed to play this ploy. Syria will reshape the world order and expose their lies and bury their evil plans. Syrians paid a hefty price to ensure this evil go no further.
Public opinion should be very much aware of such plans especially after the fail of the ‘chemical weapons’ accusations and the recent failures of Al-Qaeda Levant fighters known as Nusra Front working under the FSA umbrella, and Qussayr battle was just one in a long list of victories by the Syrian Arab Army on all fronts in the country.
Video of the terrorists bragging about their crime and then some others forcing people to go out in the street to praise the genocide their friends committed, English subtitles, had to use LiveLeak instead of YouTube, as YouTube supports NATO terrorists only and delete any video against them:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=87e_1371027252

At the end of the second minute in the video, as the rebels are showcasing the "Shia infidels" and "Shia dogs" they just executed, the cameraman man says "uncover the other dog" and one of the rebels responds with a "No, no, no, it's a woman". So executing infidel women is all fine and dandy, but allowing women(even dead women) on camera is haram?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=783_1371048257

Names of some of the "shabiha" infidels killed by the rebels in their proletarian revolutionary terror:
Sayyed Ibrahim Musa Mullah Eid
Taha Hussein Mullah Eid
Mohammad Musa Mullah Eid
Murtaza Ibrahim Mullah Eid
Mustafa Ibrahim Mullah Eid
Wedad al-Badrani, Sayyed Eid’s wife
Ali Mandil Saleh
Basil Mandil Saleh
Yasser Mandil Saleh
Ma’soom al-Raja, his wife (Batoul) and daughter (2 years)
Hajj Omar al-Hamadi (85 years)
Hajj Issa Khalaf Al-Hilal (84 years)

I guess that two year old girl was found drinking the blood of some innocent Sunni civilian after killing him with her Kalashnikov when the revolutionaries found her and shot her(for the sake of revolution, of course).

Xg2lZH7RTBs

[Manar]

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9203181782

The al-Nusra Front angry at the Syrian army's recent successes in al-Qusseir region massacred tens of the Syrian people and mutilated their bodies.

According to Syria's Human Rights Watch, the terrorists killed 60 Shiite Muslims in the region and created horror among the people residing in Hatlah district.

They also set fire on mosques and killed three daughters of a Shiite leader in the region after raping them publicly.

At least 1,500 militants of the al-Nusra Front were killed during the government forces' recent operation for retaking al-Qusseir.

Latest reports indicate that the Syrian army has also pushed foreign-backed militants out of the central villages of Salhiyeh and Masoudiyeh, just North of al-Qusseir.

The al-Nusra Front has been behind many of the deadly bombings targeting both civilians and government institutions across Syria since the outbreak of violence in March 2011.

On May 10, Syria's Ambassador to the UN Bashar al-Jaafari said the al-Nusra Front has claimed responsibility for carrying out at least 600 acts of terror in the past year. Jaafari also slammed the group for attacking hospitals and schools, desecrating holy places, assassinating religious figures, and abducting UN personnel in Syria.

The West has been widely criticized for its double standard when it comes to dealing with terrorist groups.

Over two years of foreign-sponsored militancy in Syria has taken its toll on the lives of many people, including large numbers of Syrian soldiers and security personnel.
I wonder who the "Shiite leader" whose daughters were publicly raped and then executed is. Is it the same one who was kidnapped, tortured and then killed?

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Well - according to the logic of those who cheer for the "Syrian opposition", these people either: (1) killed themselves; or (2) were killed by nebulous "pro-Assad forces" in order to discredit the glorious Syrian revolution; or (3) were killed by Islamist groups that have nothing to do with the real glorious proletarian Free Syrian Army.

[Sasha]

and again you conflict al nusra with the FSA, i'm just going to edit the thread titles if you are going to keep intentionally spreading this misinformation.
thread title editted + verbal warning.

[Manar]

and again you conflict al nusra with the FSA, i'm just going to edit the thread titles if you are going to keep intentionally spreading this misinformation.
thread title editted + verbal warning.
Shove your warning verbal you know where, I don't accept the legitimacy of this action, it has no basis in the forum rules(the Frequently Asked Questions section says that verbal warnings are given out for flaming, trolling, spamming or social prejudice, I just read it, maybe you should too, it's important for an administrator). Jubhat al-Nusra is FSA, in the West "FSA" is used as an umbrella term for anti-government armed gangs. If you cared in the least about facts you would have at least bothered to check that there is no such thing as the Free Syrian Army any more (http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/the-free-syrian-army-doesnt-exist/). This administrative action is quite clearly politically motivated, as you are explicit in your support for the "uprising" and wish to create a dividing line between openly Wahhabi gangs like Jubhat Al-Nusra and rebel gangs you consider more to your liking. You can't intimidate people that oppose your fictions by targeting them for administrative action. Where is the honor in that? T

[Paul Pott]

There is no FSA. Repeat it until that sinks in.

[Manar]

I would like a moderator to change the thread of this discussion to "Syrian Rebels commit another civilian massacre - this time in Hatla".

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

The evidence seems to imply that the "Free Syrian Army" is simply a label used by certain elements of the Syrian contras. Their enthusiastic supporters outside Syria alternate between using the term to refer to the entire contra operation, and reserving it for some supposed "good", "moderate", or even "progressive" element. The distinction is meaningless.

[Sasha]

so say if this was 1979 Iran and say the revolutionary council of khomeini butchered a town you would have no problem with me blaming it on say the fedai?
or if this was lebanese civilwar i could just say hezbollah did something when it was in fact Amal or the red knights?
no a rule against lying is not in the FAQ, still doesnt mean its allowed... we edit thread title all the time to more accurately reflect the facts. if someone sympathetic to the uprising would write about a massacre by regime loyalists as "syrian army etc" while it was in fact an loyalist militia only nominally connected to regime i would edit it too

[Manar]

so say if this was 1979 Iran and say the revolutionary council of khomeini butchered a town you would have no problem with me blaming it on say the fedai?
or if this was lebanese civilwar i could just say hezbollah did something when it was in fact Amal or the red knights?
no a rule against lying is not in the FAQ, still doesnt mean its allowed...we edit thread title all the time to more accurately reflect the facts. if someone sympathetic to the uprising would write about a massacre by regime loyalists as "syrian army etc" while it was in fact an loyalist militia only nominally connected to regime i would edit it too
You are either a lying Wahhabi cheerleader or some sort of child that needs to be spoon fed information. I'll assume the best of you and go with the latter. Since you compared the FSA Islamists with the Marxist-Lenist Fedaian, the former seems likely, though. Either way, here is me spoon-feeding you:

The Free Syrian Army was founded by Turkish intelligence in a refugee camp in Turkey's Arab-majority Hatay Province, the Apaydin camp. Here, a photo, for visual aid:
http://i42.tinypic.com/i528f4.png

This happened around July 2011. Turkey's poster boy in this operation was Riad al-Asaad, a former colonel in the Syrian Air Force. This guy:
http://images.alarabiya.net/9a/a7/640x392_33835_178532.jpg

In 2011 and early 2012, you had dozens of small brigades all over Syria beginning to call themselves FSA brigades and publicly pledging allegiance to Riad al-Asaad(in quite a similar way to how Jihadis pledge allegiance to Emirs), under pressure from their NATO, Saudi and Qatari sponsors. By 2012, this trend has stopped, as al-Asaad's FSA completely lost legitimacy. The vast majority of these FSA armed groups in Syria disassociated themselves from the FSA, removed their FSA shoulder patches, redesigned their FSA logos, etc. That FSA is no more, pretty much, although al-Asaad does still have a few supporters in Syria.

There are other "FSA"s though, which Western media call "the FSA", even though they are competing groups and generally don't even call themselves the "FSA".

There is Mostafa el-Sheikh's "FSA Military Council". There is Qasem Saadeddine's "Military Council in the Homs Governorate". He tried to create an anti-al-Asaad command structure, but that collapse very quickly. There Mohammed Hussein el-Hajj Ali's "Syrian National Army", which collapsed in literally days. There is Adnan Selou's "Joint Military Leadership", which he supposedly commands, but which hasn't been heard of by anyone except for Western media. There is Abdeljabbar el-Ogeidi's "Syrian Support Group", which exists only in Aleppo. There is Adnan el-Arour's "Joint Command of the Revolutionary Military Councils", which is explicitly Wahhabi.

And then finally, there is the "General Staff of the Supreme Joint Military Command Council", lead by Salim Idris. This guy:

https://www.nytimes.com/images/2013/03/02/world/general/general-articleLarge.jpg


This group is bigger than any of the other "FSAs" combined. It was founded last December in Turkey. This group is really an arms distribution network. Basically, when a local rebel warlord swears fealty to Idris, the Saudis buy him a bunch of shiny guns, and he can use them to kill more infidels to earn more virgins for when he gets martyred. Although all these local warlords are nominally under his command, he doesn't give them orders; that would be just a waste of breath, they wouldn't follow them anyway.

Idris's Supreme Joint Military Command Council doesn't actually call itself the "Free Syrian Army", though the media decided to just go along with it and call it that. After all, this is Syria, who cares about the truth?

So allow me to reiterate:

Edit: Mod action - image removed.

You can't warn me for non-existent rules. Do you make up new rules on the fly just to harass people you don't agree with all the time? And what kind of rule is this? "lying"? Do you know how subjective that is? Why don't you warn me for "lying" because I don't believe the 'holodomor' was a diabolical plan to "punish the Ukrainians" thought up by Stalin? Why don't you warn me for "lying" about Lenin being a communist revolutionary? Just what the fuck is this? Retract the damn warning, it has no basis, or give yourself a warning for lying about the FSA. Or are double standards the norm on Rev Left?

[Sir Comradical]

On the ground there's little difference between the fronts and there's plenty of evidence to suggest this.

Stop harassing people because you don't like their opinions, psycho.

[MarxSchmarx]

Manar and Psycho:

Please continue issues related to the administrative action over PM if you really want to pursue this. I think focusing on the accurate terminology for those fighting Assad's regime. But at the same time discussing administrative actions is a bit different - there is a place for that in other parts of revleft, but not here.

Any further airing of the administrative issues in this specific thread by anybody will constitute trolling and I will issue warnings.

[Le Socialiste]

Manar, that image was unnecessary (you know the one I'm talking about). While contesting the grounds for your warning is acceptable within the proper space - and this thread doesn't qualify - that image wasn't. I've thus removed it. Be glad I didn't issue a warning for it.

[Manar]

What image Le Socialiste? This one?

Edit: Mod Action - Image Removed.

Okay, no problem.

Thank you Marx Schmarx, I will follow your instructions.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Manar, that image was unnecessary (you know the one I'm talking about). While contesting the grounds for your warning is acceptable within the proper space - and this thread doesn't qualify - that image wasn't. I've thus removed it. Be glad I didn't issue a warning for it.

I do not think the way he conducted his response was unprincipled. His first post included content as well as a response to the personal conduct of a moderator, which is indeed a part of the discussion. He even linked to a source to support his position. His next post was extremely informative and a valid contribution. Sure he might have linked a picture that was inappropriate according to the rules, but this is no reason to give him any form of punishment.

And I am fully aware that my post is worthy of a warning or an infraction. I do not mind this and I accept this. However I did not consider this as a factor in making the post. I am aware that you have a rule against public criticism of moderation, in favor of private messages. but I reject this rule as illegitimate and therefore refuse to abide by it. If I may quote Mao, it is an error


To indulge in irresponsible criticism in private instead of actively putting forward one's suggestions to the organization. To say nothing to people to their faces but to gossip behind their backs, or to say nothing at a meeting but to gossip afterwards. To show no regard at all for the principles of collective life but to follow one's own inclination.


And on that basis, I am making that post. As I have said before I acknowledge that this is against the rules and that I will be either warned or infracted, but I do not mind this. After all, this is an internet forum. Compromising my principles might make me more liked around here and give me a chance to earn a spot with in the moderation, but I am not interested in these things. I am interested in represented my politics and this forum is a medium for that purpose, and under no circumstance will I compromise myself for it. Likewise, I hope that others realize that a few warning and infractions are not a bad thing but rather are a good thing.


Edit: I still stand by defending his other posts in principle, but the most recent post is indefensible and I do not endorse it. I personally recommend that he removes it and admits that it is a childish response.

There is no need to spam this thread with discussion over this warning, so if there is any more discussion on that topic, then I'll edit this post and add more, rather than making new posts.


Fair enough, though MarxShmarx was the one to say these back-and-forths over the warning Psycho issued isn't conducive to the subject of this thread. That said, the image that accompanied Manar's latest post (and that I removed) was unacceptable and inexcusable. Thus, I removed it. I stand by that decision, as I'm sure if I hadn't been the one to remove it another member of the BA would have. Instead of accepting this, Manar has reposted the image in question.

This was not aimed at you, though I admit that it did point in your direction more than it should have. When I was posting this I did not see the image in question so I assumed it was gore. So I apologize.

Likewise, I still stand by the rest of what I said

[Manar]

Fair enough, though MarxShmarx was the one to say these back-and-forths over the warning Psycho issued isn't conducive to the subject of this thread. That said, the image that accompanied Manar's latest post (and that I removed) was unacceptable and inexcusable. Thus, I removed it. I stand by that decision, as I'm sure if I hadn't been the one to remove it another member of the BA would have. Instead of accepting this, Manar has reposted the image in question.
Don't speak for me, I'm clear about my agreement about your removal of that image. I was just checking.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

so say if this was 1979 Iran and say the revolutionary council of khomeini butchered a town you would have no problem with me blaming it on say the fedai?
or if this was lebanese civilwar i could just say hezbollah did something when it was in fact Amal or the red knights?

The analogy fails. Hezbollah, the Red Knights etc., are all actually existing organisations. "The FSA" is simply a label, often used to refer to the entire contra operation in Syria.

I am not disputing your administrati ve action; I can't. But politically, your intervention implies that we must distinguish the Islamists from the "good" FSA. Well, where are these good, non-Islamist and non-communitarian "FSA" detachments? What rock must we turn over to find them?

[TheEmancipator]

What we must distinguish is the FSA that openly helps islamist brigades and the secular fighters who actually want a progressive, democratic model Syria not based on Sharia law.

I'm sorry, but if you look at the "successful" revolutions in Egypt and Tunisia, where apparently secular people won it (they're the ones who started it, certainly not the islamists who were in the dictators' back pocket), they ended up handing power to islamists.

I therefore to do not think the FSA winning is a necessarily good thing. I'd like to see Assad toppled as much as anyone, but another Iran-style regime in the region would be a disaster.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

What we must distinguish is the FSA that openly helps islamist brigades and the secular fighters who actually want a progressive, democratic model Syria not based on Sharia law.

Again, where are these supposed secular opposition fighters?

[Manar]

Again, where are these supposed secular opposition fighters?
Cannibalism, rape and child-molestation are haram in Islam, so clearly the cannibal, rapist and pedophile rebel elements are all secularists. The Jubhat al-Nusra fighters demand little girls as wives from Syrians for their "service". Jubhat al-Nusra is a secular outfit, then, cause pedophilia is a no-go in Islam. The Farouqs eat the dead of their enemies. Cannibalism is haram, so the Farouqs are secularists.

YFzZdR6jH-I

[TheEmancipator]

Again, where are these supposed secular opposition fighters?

They exist, but they are not as organised, disciplined or fanatical as the islamist fighters. And they don't attract the attention of the media much either.

And now most of them don't want the islamists to take power. So they've backed down or even started supporting Assad.

What do you propose Semendyaev? The place is a clusterfuck beyond the comprehension of people like you and me who are not on the ground, in the cities, fighting. However, it is my view that Assad's position has become untenable due to his transgressions upon the Syrian people who quite clearly wanted him gone.

[Manar]

They exist, but they are not as organised, disciplined or fanatical as the islamist fighters. And they don't attract the attention of the media much either.

And now most of them don't want the islamists to take power. So they've backed down or even started supporting Assad.

What do you propose Semendyaev? The place is a clusterfuck beyond the comprehension of people like you and me who are not on the ground, in the cities, fighting. However, it is my view that Assad's position has become untenable due to his transgressions upon the Syrian people who quite clearly wanted him gone.
Quite clearly want him gone? If that was the case then why do rebel gangs have to shoot pro-Assad demonstrators to intimidate civilians?
q0-nFfhtMjY
If Assad were to resign today, half the country would immediately go on strike to bring him back. Not that it matters really, Assad is just a symbolic figure, the actual power resides in the hands of the military-security apparatus, even more so since the start of the NATO-incited Civil War.

[Nakidana]

@Manar's post
Good post, but a few things I take issue with:


The Free Syrian Army was founded by Turkish intelligence in a refugee camp in Turkey's Arab-majority Hatay Province, the Apaydin camp.

According to the article by Aron Lund, this may or may not be true. No doubt Turkey supported the defections, but they probably would've happened anyway considering the oppression. The fact remains that there was a big movement against Assad, protests were staged and Assad cracked down on them violently. The way you put it, it comes across as if this uprising was all started by outside forces when in reality it started internally after which foreign powers started interfering.


he can use them to kill more infidels to earn more virgins for when he gets martyred.

This is just typical islamophobic BS. You should really stop reading the comments on liveleak.


They exist, but they are not as organised, disciplined or fanatical as the islamist fighters. And they don't attract the attention of the media much either. And now most of them don't want the islamists to take power. So they've backed down or even started supporting Assad.

Source? Or are you in direct contact with some of them?

[TheEmancipator]

Quite clearly want him gone? If that was the case then why do rebel gangs have to shoot pro-Assad demonstrators to intimidate civilians?
q0-nFfhtMjY

Misquoted me in bold. I used the past tense. The mass demonstrations to me signified a strong opposition to Assad in most of the country. I do not believe there was a silent majority supporting Assad, just a conservative, cautious group of people who were scared to lose their rights. However, the moment he violently suppressed demonstration his position became untenable.


If Assad were to resign today, half the country would immediately go on strike to bring him back. Not that it matters really, Assad is just a symbolic figure, the actual power resides in the hands of the military-security apparatus, even more so since the start of the NATO-incited Civil War.

Could you explain in more detail :

a- Why you think half the country would go on strike for Assad
b- Where the military-security apparatus is?
c- How NATO incited the Civil War?



Source? Or are you in direct contact with some of them?

Look at the PKK and Kurdish communists and the elements of the Free Syrian Army that didn't defect to Al Nusra, some of which has laid down arms or become local militia instead of joining the fight against Assad

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Union_Party_%28Syria%29.

[Akshay!]

YFzZdR6jH-I

I run that channel :grin:

[Zaza]

They exist, but they are not as organised, disciplined or fanatical as the islamist fighters. And they don't attract the attention of the media much either.

You mean as the "Christian" soldiers which are fighting against Al-Assad?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt6so_WeMYw&feature=youtu.be

Yeah.. No. They look more like they want to join Lil Wayne with those big crosses instead of the FSA.


FSA members or supporters were always making propaganda about alot of things.
According to their reports thousands of soldiers joined the FSA. And several thousands of the SAA and Hezbollah died.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Cannibalism, rape and child-molestation are haram in Islam, so clearly the cannibal, rapist and pedophile rebel elements are all secularists. The Jubhat al-Nusra fighters demand little girls as wives from Syrians for their "service". Jubhat al-Nusra is a secular outfit, then, cause pedophilia is a no-go in Islam. The Farouqs eat the dead of their enemies. Cannibalism is haram, so the Farouqs are secularists.

I realise you are being sarcastic, but Islam is not something static, but the concrete body of practices designated with that label. The opposition groups all seem to fight for a theocratic Syria, or are thoroughly compromised by their support for groups that want a theocracy. There really seem to be no secular anti-Assad forces (like the PSP in Lebanon).


They exist, but they are not as organised, disciplined or fanatical as the islamist fighters. And they don't attract the attention of the media much either.

But do they have an actual presence on the ground, or are they talk-shop groups?


What do you propose Semendyaev? The place is a clusterfuck beyond the comprehension of people like you and me who are not on the ground, in the cities, fighting. However, it is my view that Assad's position has become untenable due to his transgressions upon the Syrian people who quite clearly wanted him gone.

I also think it would be best if the Syrian people could overthrow the bonapartist Ba'ath government. But at this point, trying to do so would objectively assist the contras, the Islamists. For the time being, the Syrian proletariat needs to conditionally support the Ba'ath, while entrenching their positions for an eventual confrontation with the government after the end of the civil war.

[TheEmancipator]

But do they have an actual presence on the ground, or are they talk-shop groups?

I believe at this stage they are local militia in rebel controlled areas actually fighting islamists to make sure they don't get their reactionary hands on the law in rebel controlled areas. In the recent news story on the 14 year old shot because he insulted Allah or something like that, you could clearly see armed individuals condemning the islamists and telling them to fuck off. It has basically been reduced to war-time vigilantism.

Otherwise, there is a remnant in the FSA that is secular, but most seem to have defected to Al Nusra or various other islamist brigades.



I also think it would be best if the Syrian people could overthrow the bonapartist Ba'ath government. But at this point, trying to do so would objectively assist the contras, the Islamists. For the time being, the Syrian proletariat needs to conditionally support the Ba'ath, while entrenching their positions for an eventual confrontation with the government after the end of the civil war.

The Syrian proletariat already made its feelings clear torwards Assad before this became a Civil War. If Assad were to win the Civil War he would use his hegemony to violently supress any former dissidents before they can even blink. The only way I see the Syrian people getting the secular, progressive government they deserve is if Assad falls, then the seculars rid themselves of the islamists somehow. We both know this isn't going to happen though, but I disagree with your position towards Assad.