Please Explain

[Captain]

So if every body is payed the same wage no matter the job then what is the incentive to work? I mean why would you want to spend your time working for no advancement? Like maybe the people who strongly believe in the betterment of mankind, but the average joe probably wouldn't much incentive. And if people aren't working but are being paid, then we hav an economic problem, because the payed workers who aren't working are actually being paid out of the governments pocket, but then people start dying of starvation because people aren't working and then the government is receiving fewer taxes and can't support as many people....am I just over complicating it for my self or can somebody clarify, if you understand my ramblings.

[Q]

Money, the universal equivalent, won't exist as such under communism. Alienated labour (your product of labour being the property of your boss) no longer exists as you're part of wider social planning. Wages therefore, an 'incentive' within the context of alienated labour, no longer exists either.

This type of question is like the feudal peasant asking how we could all be equal for the law, as the lord is obviously better than him. What incentive would there be for society to continue as it has been before?

And that's the point: We want to break the incentive to continue as before.

[Brutus]

Under the dictatorship of the proletariat, socialism or Communism? In communism money has been abolished.

[BIXX]

This thread again!!!

I love answering this question :)

First off, abandon the idea of "payment".

People will not need to be paid, because they will not need to pay for food, because whoever is distributing the food is already being fed. Same with all other indistries.

By advancement, I believe you mean to become things like doctors?

Well, I know I personally would rather take advantage of my free education (cause I no longer have to pay for that), and become a doctor, than work as a janitor. And vice versa, I'm sure there are some people who'd enjoy cleaning, and would rather be a janitor.

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

You might want to look at these threads first:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/search.php?searchid=5242139

[GiantMonkeyMan]

It's a common question and I always begin my response by asking a couple questions of my own. What motivates people to paint their house? What incentive is there to run a marathon? To volunteer at a youth centre? Why do people cook their friends and family dinner, wash the dishes and take out the trash? Not all motivation or incentive has to be monetary and, in my opinion, it is often the case that when money isn't involved it is a lot more fulfilling.

We don't want to simply give everyone the same wage; we want to abolish the concept of wages. A wage is simply an indication of the fact that the surplus value of your labour has been extracted. The person who 'gives' you your wage is withholding the fruits of your labour as profit. That exploitative economic relationship is what we want to remove and not the incentive to work.

[Captain]

But who is producing the food? And why should they?

[Blake's Baby]

If doctors are paid more than binmen, why would anyone want to be a binman? That must be why, under capitalism, we're all qualified as doctors. Oh, if only there were more sick people we could all cure!

If politicians are paid more than firemen, that must be why there are no firemen, and everything is constantly on fire. Oh, if only there was a way of sorting all this out!

[egalitarian]

So if every body is payed the same wage no matter the job then what is the incentive to work? I mean why would you want to spend your time working for no advancement? Like maybe the people who strongly believe in the betterment of mankind, but the average joe probably wouldn't much incentive. And if people aren't working but are being paid, then we hav an economic problem, because the payed workers who aren't working are actually being paid out of the governments pocket, but then people start dying of starvation because people aren't working and then the government is receiving fewer taxes and can't support as many people....am I just over complicating it for my self or can somebody clarify, if you understand my ramblings.

Everyone is not "paid" the same wage, but their "pay" would not be related to their production.

People could work for autonomy, mastery and purpose. People work to provide for themselves and for everyone else, and, in turn, everyone else does the same. They work for a society without economic oppression, they work for egalitarianism. They work for the pleasure of attainment, of growth, of achievement. And they work for freedom, freedom from need and want, freedom of choice.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

But who is producing the food? And why should they?
Marx suggests that the distinction between the countryside and the city would eventually become blurred. Personally, I see this as a suggestion towards there being lots of communal green spaces within living areas dedicated to growing/rearing locally sourced food. On the wider scale, mechanisation, scientific advances in fertiliser etc has essentially made the growth of things like wheat far more simple than any time in the past.

In capitalism we produce twice the needed food to supply the recommended daily calorie intake of every person in the world. Food gets thrown away or is left to rot if no profit can be garnered from it. Any rational society would organise a planned method of distributing food in order for there not to be a need to create such a disposable surplus. Similarly, in capitalism the vast majority of the population is engaged in performing menial, pointless tasks (selling insurance, marketing, call centres etc) or otherwise unemployed and even a small imput of an hour a day from these people could vastly increase the potential labour power dedicated towards necessary tasks such as food growth and, just like in any field, there would be trained specialist to optimise this input.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

But who is producing the food? And why should they?

Human society existed as stateless and moneyless for over 90% of humans' existence on this planet. One could conclude that people are, in fact, smart enough, as communities, to feed themselves without anybody paying them for it.

[Luís Henrique]

But who is producing the food? And why should they?

Who is producing the food in our capitalist society? And why do they do it?

Luís Henrique

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

But who is producing the food? And why should they?

Simple answer: the people, because otherwise they'd starve.
I'd do it!


Who is producing the food in our capitalist society? And why do they do it?

Luís Henrique
Farmers, to earn a meager living ;)1

[Lucretia]

So if every body is payed the same wage no matter the job then what is the incentive to work? I mean why would you want to spend your time working for no advancement? Like maybe the people who strongly believe in the betterment of mankind, but the average joe probably wouldn't much incentive. And if people aren't working but are being paid, then we hav an economic problem, because the payed workers who aren't working are actually being paid out of the governments pocket, but then people start dying of starvation because people aren't working and then the government is receiving fewer taxes and can't support as many people....am I just over complicating it for my self or can somebody clarify, if you understand my ramblings.

What's your incentive for posting on Revleft if you're not getting paid for it?

[Captain]

Who is producing the food in our capitalist society? And why do they do it?

Luís Henrique

Farmers do it in a capitalist society, because now a days there is big money in it (unless there's a bad year of course)

Either way I get it now, and thank you all.

[Bostana]

Farmers do it in a capitalist society, because now a days there is big money in it (unless there's a bad year of course).

Yeah for big farming corporations. Like big farms. Never for the actual farmer
The whole idea of a simple farmer in america is bullshit. It's all controlled by corporations, while the farmer i forced to treat the animal inhumanely so the CEOs can make more money.

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

Farmers do it in a capitalist society, because now a days there is big money in it (unless there's a bad year of course)

Either way I get it now, and thank you all.

What country do you live in? Most Countries Farmers are working about two to three times as much hours as most people do. My neighbour happens to be a farmer and is at it from 7 am to about 10 pm each day except sundays (not religious or anything, but people need a rest sometimes). Then there is the harvest-season where i don't even hear 'em leaving otr coming back, even on sundays then!

And for what? Supermarkets and other corporations keep giving them less and less for it. Hollands largest supermarket-company has recently (about three months back i think) lowered their purchase-price without discussion. A one-sided breach of contract which no farmer dares to address because they fear they won't sell anything anymore anywhere when they go against their policies.

So hard work for less money. Capitalism at it's best.