Ruling class character.....

[RadioRaheem84]

There have been lots of stuff written about the ruling class as they relate to the economy and politics but I have yet to read anything about the class character of the ruling class. The cultural traits, the mindset, what their morals and ethics are, etc.

I mean I know that Marxists generally do not resort to this sort of pop psych or talk about morality per se but it would be interesting to understand the ruling class as a whole. I mean they seem much more connected to each other than the fragmented working classes who are divided over trivial things like race, sex, religion and sexual orientation.

After going to school and befriending a lot of the children of the ruling class and who soon will grow up to own the means, they all did have a similar mindset. Not to generalize them all but they all grew up with class being more more apparent to them an a middle or working class kid and they were much more aware of their status in the world than a poorer person. They could relate to the wealthy of another country way before they could ever relate to the poorer person in their own country. They view themselves more as citizens of the world than citizens of their own country.

I mean there has been no study on how the notion of having complete financial security, more legal rights than the average person and more options than a person would know what to do with, can have on a person's mindset? I mean we cannot fall for the clap trap the liberals feed us to try and get us to relate to the rich and their problems, that they're all humans too. Yes, they are and problems are problems but there is still a giant disconnect between the two camps that can never be reconciled.

All the writings about the ruling class have been in abstract form, basically just in their relation to the means of production and how that motivates their decisions concerning society.

I am talking about what they think of the poor and working classes. What they think of their status in the world. Are they really all these unaware 'I am human too' class that doesn't see the inherent contradictions in the system they're directly a part of? Why did they support Eugenics back in the early 20th century? Are they still open to such ideas and still believe a modicum of what their great grandparents thought?

I know that it would tough to generalize a class of people this big but certainly someone has written about the class character of the ruling class.

Just who are they really?

[helot]

I expect they see the rest of us as nothing more than cattle.

[RadioRaheem84]

Bascially the impression they have in fictional work is the reality?

Is it almost as though how slave owners would view slaves in a slave society? Or how Kings would view serfs?

There was a lot written about what they thought of the lower caste in those epohcs, yet with the exception of the Eugenics movement I hardly read anything about what ruling classes today really think of the poor and the whole pseudo science and psych and morality banter of their reasoning behind discriminating againt us.

[ZenTaoist]

Well generally the ruling-class and the elites are the most indoctrinated in a society. They are conditioned to know how to respond to power and how to act certain ways by their class. They have pretty messed up and out-of-touch views about the rest of the world. Just for an example, the only news press that exists for them is the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Forbes, etc. And as we all know, those are incredibly disconnected from reality for millions of people. It's filled with very delicate propaganda.

For the elites in the United States, they genuinely see it as a democracy, because it does work for them. They actually get to participate in the decision-making process. And I'm sure that most of them are aware, to some degree at least, that they are able to take part in decision-making because they are privileged. So obviously it's not in their best interests to think 'well I'm only a human just like everyone else' and give up that power.

As far as what they think of the working-class? Like I said, they're heavily indoctrinated and out of touch in general, so if they see a working-class family struggling, they probably believe that the family just needs to work harder....because hard work breeds success in their mind. The thought never occurs that they are exploiting these people, they probably think they're doing them some good by giving them a job.

I don't think they look at us and break out into some evil laugh, but they have horrible misconceptions about the way the system works, just because they benefit from it so much.

[helot]

Bascially the impression they have in fictional work is the reality?

Is it almost as though how slave owners would view slaves in a slave society? Or how Kings would view serfs?

There was a lot written about what they thought of the lower caste in those epohcs, yet with the exception of the Eugenics movement I hardly read anything about what ruling classes today really think of the poor and the whole pseudo science and psych and morality banter of their reasoning behind discriminating againt us.


I can never know as i've never spoken with a member of the ruling class. I'd imagine that they'd have to have some sort of cognitive distance between themselves and the destruction they unleash on the rest of humanity. It can be difficult for people to blatently harm others and accept what they've done and i highly doubt they're all a bunch of unfeeling monsters so they probably trick themselves with sophistry in one way or another.

[RadioRaheem84]

I know that they're not cackling a cartoonishly evil laugh on top of a pile of money which smoking fat cigars. C'mon!

There are a lot of them that for some reason get really involved in humanitarian efforts, useless NGOs, microfinance schemes, and advocacy. They truly believe they're helping out the social ills in some Andrew Carnegie like way but they never admit that the problem is the very system their families defend.

[ZenTaoist]

I know that they're not cackling a cartoonishly evil laugh on top of a pile of money which smoking fat cigars. C'mon!

There are a lot of them that for some reason get really involved in humanitarian efforts, useless NGOs, microfinance schemes, and advocacy. They truly believe they're helping out the social ills in some Andrew Carnegie like way but they never admit that the problem is the very system their families defend.

You nailed it, that's exactly what they think. They genuinely believe everything they do is to the benefit of everyone else. So if I'm a capitalist, I own a company with sweatshops in Indonesia, but I'm helping out my workers, because what else would they do in this third world country without my sweatshop? Gather up wheat and starve? Die of malaria?

It works a bit like that. This is why they get so offended at people like us pointing out the flaws in the system. They don't see any flaws. They live a perfectly comfortable life and assume that everyone else is comfortable too.

[RadioRaheem84]

I can never know as i've never spoken with a member of the ruling class. I'd imagine that they'd have to have some sort of cognitive distance between themselves and the destruction they unleash on the rest of humanity. It can be difficult for people to blatently harm others and accept what they've done and i highly doubt they're all a bunch of unfeeling monsters so they probably trick themselves with sophistry in one way or another.

I've know a lot and they're a mix of aloof playboy types who aren't heartless but they're just not all that concerned about world affairs, I've met some that are very concerned but see it as a duty to preserve social democracy, and I've met some that are brazenly elitist, not ashamed of it all. But they all had the mindset that the world was their playground, it was their canvas to do something that will exalt them or their ideals.

They were all very aware of their status but they were also like you said very much indoctrinated into the system of thought that the media puts out. I don't get how that could be? They're in a position to be much more aware of how the media and the books we read are BS but they seem to really regurgitate the same talking points and are very pop culture, current event savvy. They're much more pro-establishment and see any forms of anti-establishment discourse or politics as vulgar or immature or class envy. Even though they're in a position to view everything from the top they choose to believe the bile that is spewed from the airwaves. They of all people should know that the world is unequal but they choose to deny it. Even if they do admit that the world is unequal they still believe that gumption is all it takes to overcome it. It's weird!

Working class people are far more skepitcal, yet they're more sociall unaware of their position in the world (especially in the US).

[MarxSchmarx]

I have on some occasions gotten to know people who I think qualify as "ruling class". One guy was the son of a foreign minister of a gulf state, he spent his entire life mostly in the UK, one was an elected provincial governor of a region of several million, and another made a small fortune and is now a neighbour of Silicon valley titans of industry. It was quite by happenstance that I got to know these people. Most of us really are only a few connections away from their like as radioraheem shows.

On some level, I must admit that I did not find their mindset terribly different than most other educated people. To their credit I found them uniformly rather keenly intelligent, fairly opinionated, and remind me to some degree of your run of the mill leftwing activist (except, obviously, in the views they hold - and they are all basically modern social democrats although the people they work with are also arch-reactionaries).

However, one thing I've discerned from conversations has been that they realize that there is actually another layer "on top" of them that really calls the shots. Call it what you will, but there is a core of the ruling elite, based primarily in London and New York, that are deeply entrenched and that yield enormous power. From what I gather from speaking to these people, this main elite is largely hereditary, and their upbringing is basically geared to quietly exercising tremendous power.

It all sounds a bit nefarious to me, but apparently what we think of the ruling class isn't quite the ruling class.

[RadioRaheem84]

I have on some occasions gotten to know people who I think qualify as "ruling class". One guy was the son of a foreign minister of a gulf state, he spent his entire life mostly in the UK, one was an elected provincial governor of a region of several million, and another made a small fortune and is now a neighbour of Silicon valley titans of industry. It was quite by happenstance that I got to know these people. Most of us really are only a few connections away from their like as radioraheem shows.

On some level, I must admit that I did not find their mindset terribly different than most other educated people. To their credit I found them uniformly rather keenly intelligent, fairly opinionated, and remind me to some degree of your run of the mill leftwing activist (except, obviously, in the views they hold - and they are all basically modern social democrats although the people they work with are also arch-reactionaries).

However, one thing I've discerned from conversations has been that they realize that there is actually another layer "on top" of them that really calls the shots. Call it what you will, but there is a core of the ruling elite, based primarily in London and New York, that are deeply entrenched and that yield enormous power. From what I gather from speaking to these people, this main elite is largely hereditary, and their upbringing is basically geared to quietly exercising tremendous power.

It all sounds a bit nefarious to me, but apparently what we think of the ruling class isn't quite the ruling class.

Wow. I dealt with a bunch of spoiled college kids but if you're saying that a real cabal runs things and you heard it from the lower layer of the ruling class, I can only imagine what they're thinking of in terms of who calls the shots.

There have been times where I did hear these kids of the ruling class talk about stuff that would tickle the fancy of NWO Alex Jones conspiracy lovers. I too think that this layer possibly exists but that it's behind everything from putting fluoride in the water to causing autism with vaccines.

[blake 3:17]

I know that it would tough to generalize a class of people this big but certainly someone has written about the class character of the ruling class.

Just who are they really?

There's theory stuff like Therborn's What Does the Ruling Class Do When It Rules and then oodles of very empirical work. Two books that really helped me turn towards the empirical were Susan George's A Fate Worse than Debt and Christopher Hitchens' book on the Clintons, No One Left To Lie To. Both are probably quite dated but...

In more recent years I really liked Lawrence McDonald's A Colossal Failure of Common Sense which is an insider's take on the Lehman Brothers meltdown. Within it, if you're coming at it from a working class perspective, much of what McDonald says is fairly common sense and then other things are utterly bizarre. I can't recall the exact numbers offhand, but he very clearly approved of financial traders getting multi million dollar bonuses, but when they went up 50% they were totally effed from his point of view. A friggin bonus that's more money than I'll make in my life? Fuck you! But! He describes the different attitudes in enough detail, it's amazing. And awful.

A book that bridges the gap between theory and research is Rita Hatton's book on Charles Saatchi and his art collection, Supercollector. Brilliant and terrifying.

[RadioRaheem84]

Are these books recommended because of their expose of the minds of the ruling class or because the authors themselves have adopted the ruling class mind and it's terrifying to read what they think?

There has to be this veneer that they are pulling off in the limelight and their public persona is something more of a myth than the real thing.

[Beeth]

I have on some occasions gotten to know people who I think qualify as "ruling class". One guy was the son of a foreign minister of a gulf state, he spent his entire life mostly in the UK, one was an elected provincial governor of a region of several million, and another made a small fortune and is now a neighbour of Silicon valley titans of industry. It was quite by happenstance that I got to know these people. Most of us really are only a few connections away from their like as radioraheem shows.

On some level, I must admit that I did not find their mindset terribly different than most other educated people. To their credit I found them uniformly rather keenly intelligent, fairly opinionated, and remind me to some degree of your run of the mill leftwing activist (except, obviously, in the views they hold - and they are all basically modern social democrats although the people they work with are also arch-reactionaries).

However, one thing I've discerned from conversations has been that they realize that there is actually another layer "on top" of them that really calls the shots. Call it what you will, but there is a core of the ruling elite, based primarily in London and New York, that are deeply entrenched and that yield enormous power. From what I gather from speaking to these people, this main elite is largely hereditary, and their upbringing is basically geared to quietly exercising tremendous power.

It all sounds a bit nefarious to me, but apparently what we think of the ruling class isn't quite the ruling class.

David Icke also speaks about that - not the reptilian stuff but about the concentration of power, the topmost layer of the ruling elite.

[RadioRaheem84]

Why do these people who supposedly have access to the "ruling class" like Alex Jones and David Ike resort to distorting this probably real class of influential people as reptilian monsters or all powerful overlords that control everything from what you eat to what you drink to where you shit?

I mean capitalism concentrates power, mergers and aquisitiions are forming powerful conglomerates and the network of individuals is growing ever so closely connected, it's not nuts to assume that there is a big group of people with vested interests in seeing their investments pay off by influencing policy in their favor. That's not a conspiracy and these NWO types do a great disservice to people trying to expose the truth.

But obviously there is a ruling class. It would be as silly as not talking about the kings and queens of old guiding policy and power along during the feudal age.

But there is hardly any talk of the ruling class as a whole and what their intentions are other than that one special period from 1900-1940 when they were big on letting their views on the poor be known, their support of Eugenics and flirtation with fascism.

[blake 3:17]

Are these books recommended because of their expose of the minds of the ruling class or because the authors themselves have adopted the ruling class mind and it's terrifying to read what they think?

There has to be this veneer that they are pulling off in the limelight and their public persona is something more of a myth than the real thing.

No I recommended that them as exposes on ruling class ideas. Not all of it is so terrifying, mostly more kinda weird stupid sad. And that's the winners in the society!

Susan George is looking at it from the bottom -- her politics are relatively moderate left social democratic, but the stuff on how the IMF etc actually screwed over masses upon masses of people, is really disgusting.

The book on Saatchi is probably the most clearly anti-capitalist. It's great. Art and books were really the first commodities traded under capitalist economic relations and the author makes a large number of very strong points, about early and late capitalism. She is comparing Saatchi to the Medicis, which is bang on.

And, as an artist, it is really good to know about sharks like Saatchi. He was always a right wing scumbag, but he'd come along to young artists and ruing their lives with too much money.

The McDonald book is really interesting on the internal life of a giant Wall Street firm. It's the most bourgeois and anti-socialist of the books I've recommended -- I think it's also pretty honest. His criticisms aren't very moral or grounded in anything other than what Lehman Bros were doing was bad business. Here's the link to the author's page on the book: http://www.lawrencegmcdonald.com/colossal-failure/