The EDL and anti-fascism in the UK

[Quail]

I'm not sure what it's like in other parts of the UK, but for a while I have noticed there is quite a lot wrong with the anti-fascist movement as it stands around here.

Firstly, whenever the EDL march, the counter demonstrations are often organised to be away from the EDL march, so the EDL are basically allowed to do their thing unchallenged while the anti-fascists sit in a kettle listening to speeches.

Secondly, rally-type speeches are, in my opinion, a distraction from what we really should be doing. For example, last week when the EDL came to Sheffield for the first time, we stopped them from marching and laying their flowers as planned. However, there was a moment where I thought we were going to fail because there were some people giving speeches about how great the demo was, etc, and everyone was so distracted by these speeches they didn't notice the police trying to make a pathway through the anti-fascists to the war memorial.

Thirdly, it seems as though people are completely delusional when it comes to evaluating their success as a movement. This weekend, the EDL came to Sheffield and carried out their march as planned, protected by the police. This was held up as some kind of success by the SWP, when clearly it was a complete failure. The purpose of an anti-fascist counter demo is surely to stop the fascists from being able to march.

Finally, it seems that people think it's enough to just go along to counter demonstrations, wave a banner and pat themselves on the back in a kettle to combat fascism, which is clearly not the case. In order to effectively combat fascism we need to stop it from taking root in the first place, challenge racism wherever it rears its head and seriously undermine the fascists' street presence. The current state of the anti-fascist movement simply will not allow is to do this.

I'm posting this thread really just to bounce around some ideas for what we could do about the situation. How can we build a better, effective anti-fascist movement? Judging by the backlash after the Woolwich murder, I think it's really important that we do everything we can to stamp out racism and undermine the fascists.

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

I think a lot of those who turn up to such demos don't want to get their hands dirty and are scared to openly confront the fash...
So first thing to do is get bodies on the ground who aren't as concerned about direct confrontation on the demos themselves (don't have to be looking for a ruck, but need to show they're not scared of one either if the EDL or whoever insist on one).

[Skywave]

In Colchester 10 days ago we were protesting the EDL laying a wreath on our war memorial with their propaganda all over it claiming they were doing so 'out of respect' on a memorial to those who died fighting fascism in Europe. We had a three hour standoff which ended when 30 or so police forceably moved 120+ anti-fash protesters from the memorial and allowed the EDL's recruitment officer for Essex to lay it. I agree violence is not and will never be the answer to fighting an ideology but I do feel people should, as aforementioned, be willing to 'get their hands dirty' in this 'fight'.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

I suggest looking at model adopted very succesfully by Anti-Fascist Network. There had been fair bit of VERY succesfull actions against EDL in last 1.5 year.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

most 'anti-fascist' action in that regard is a platform for swp'ers and other trot groups, it has very little to do with physically challenging the fash.

the problem is that they dominate the anti-fascist movement and militancy isn't regarded as a necessary tactic by many. in fact, many militant layers of the working class seem more drawn to groups like the edl and i've found that most of the people i've met at anti-fash demos were generally middle-class student politico types. its a mess

[Anarchist Skinhead]

Mahmoud- once againi I would like to point you in direction of Anti-Fascist Network.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

i'm well aware of them, what i'm talking about is the mainstream face of anti-fascism in the uk and the groups which dominate anti-fascism

[Skywave]

I agree Mahmoud. In this town SWP completely dominate the main anti-fascist movement and it feels like an exclusive student club from the union at the local uni.

[blake 3:17]

Are there ways to challenge the EDL more directly at their base?

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Are there ways to challenge the EDL more directly at their base?

i'd say the general requirement in attacking the edl is more numbers willing to be militant. there are a small number of people who are willing to attack their meetings and move them out of town etc but currently antifascism consists of groups like unite against fascism (essentially liberals) showing up at the big edl demos and shouting at them from across police lines.

edl need to be fought on a local level and i also think that the muslim community should be playing a role in this regard. it seems to me that the anti-edl 'movement' is mostly dominated by white middle class students, at least in the areas i'm active in anyway. where i live the edl wouldn't set foot given the high muslim population

[Skywave]

If you choose to go down the more militant path though the numbers in these groups will inevitably drop so it seems to me you can either direct an anti-fascist group towards mass public appeal such as what UAF are trying to do or substitute this appeal for more direct and 'militant' action. Although I feel the problem we are facing is not so much a set group of people but more an idealogy they conform to. You can kill off a group as has been largely done now with those such as the National Front etc but the idealogy and members remain who will just join/form splinter groups as has happened already.

[ed miliband]

there's a certain british exceptionalism i've seen with some recent anti-fascist stuff, as if far-right politics are somehow alien to british shores because 'our grandparents died fighting fascism' [/cliche]. this "british anti-fascism" is mirrored in edl practice, see for example their 'edl lgbt' faction, who gave a speech in newcastle a few weeks ago, castigating the left for not doing enough to combat islamist homophobia.

[Anti-Traditional]

there's a certain british exceptionalism i've seen with some recent anti-fascist stuff, as if far-right politics are somehow alien to british shores because 'our grandparents died fighting fascism' [/cliche]. this "british anti-fascism" is mirrored in edl practice, see for example their 'edl lgbt' faction, who gave a speech in newcastle a few weeks ago, castigating the left for not doing enough to combat islamist homophobia.

I'd beg the question ''Can the EDL actually be called Fascists?'' Personally I disagree since the EDL don't actually intend to seize power.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

I'd beg the question ''Can the EDL actually be called Fascists?'' Personally I disagree since the EDL don't actually intend to seize power.

the threat of fascism comes from above, always has. edl just further the cause for it

or perhaps it is 'organically produced' in a material sense, but fascism is a product of capitalism and it will result from the capitalistic apparatus rather than street hooligans. hitler wasn't a tommy robinson, nor was mussolini. this is what i mean when i say it 'comes from above', as in it comes from the dominant classes within the oppressive class system - the edl are actually mostly working class people. i know people from the area i grew up in who are involved with them, workers (perhaps 'hooligans' too, but workers first and foremost)

[hatzel]

there's a certain british exceptionalism i've seen with some recent anti-fascist stuff, as if far-right politics are somehow alien to british shores because 'our grandparents died fighting fascism' [/cliche].

Makes sense to me. I mean the British League of ex-Servicemen and Women was famous for it's unflinching commitment to fighting fascism at home and abroad...

The whole British WWII narrative is fucking shit. Fucking shit.