My experience in a Bangladeshi factory

[Beeth]

I am currently managing a project in Bangladesh, so I can see the conditions of unskilled workers first hand. What surprises me is that most of them (unskilled ones) are literally happy and proud to serve the skilled workers - I even see children at the site, playing and working. It is fascinating and will take a long time before any semblance of class consciousness seeps in.

Just wanted to share my experiences and observations.

[ind_com]

I have had a similar experience while organizing elsewhere. You need to get closer to them to realize what is actually happening.

[Ele'ill]

Really Beeth, what kind of project?

[L.A.P.]

sooooo, when you say managing a project, do you mean a project manager that administers over a factory? if so, that's bourgeois as fuck bruh bruh

[Beeth]

Really Beeth, what kind of project?

It is a rather huge factory with 15000 workers, mostly unskilled. The management staff is rather small and must perform dual roles or even more. In my case, I am in charge of the finance department (mostly dealing with loans, expense management etc.) plus inventory supervision.

[Beeth]

sooooo, when you say managing a project, do you mean a project manager that administers over a factory? if so, that's bourgeois as fuck bruh bruh

What would you have me do, then? Be jobless so I can prove my loyalty?

[Ele'ill]

so maybe as a manager you're not getting a genuine response from people who are non-management

[L.A.P.]

What would you have me do, then? Be jobless so I can prove my loyalty?

nah, just ask yourself why you're a 'communist'

[Beeth]

nah, just ask yourself why you're a 'communist'

Social justice. That's the reason.

[Beeth]

so maybe as a manager you're not getting a genuine response from people who are non-management

I was actually making a general observation about how workers fail to notice the elephant in the room - namely the huge gap between themselves and the skilled/management folks. the whole system is taken for granted as though it were normal. This is something I am observing first hand, directly, which is why I made this thread. Just stressing that being a class-conscious worker is not all that easy or common.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

What would you have me do, then? Be jobless so I can prove my loyalty?

Sit on your arse and do nothing all day. That is, after all, what the ultraleft does, and when anyone dares to do something else, they get upset and call them bourgeois - apparently, Beeth, you are a member of a bourgeoisie that just happens not to own any means of production. Fancy that.

That said, in my experience many workers feel uneasy around administrative staff, and might not share their actual thoughts. If you want to agitate and conduct communist propaganda, you would first have to win their trust somehow. Otherwise you would probably come off as someone preaching about socialism and the class struggle from a position of relative affluence.

[Ele'ill]

Sit on your arse and do nothing all day. That is, after all, what the ultraleft does, and when anyone dares to do something else, they get upset and call them bourgeois - apparently, Beeth, you are a member of a bourgeoisie that just happens not to own any means of production. Fancy that.


so maybe as a manager you're not getting a genuine response from people who are non-management


That said, in my experience many workers feel uneasy around administrative staff, and might not share their actual thoughts...Semendyaev, the ultraleft is supplying you with your best content who are u fooling you silly copy paster

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

I wasn't talking about you, though, but about xx1994xx. And aren't you post-left in any case? As for the repetition, meh. If something is worth saying once, it's worth saying twice while also pointing out how you disagree with other people.

[L.A.P.]

wtf are you talking about bro, I never knew I was ultraleft but okay. i dont understand how you can frame the discussion as such, I'm just noting Beeth's approach to workers as if he's some television host observing wildlife to be telling of his objective class position. How does being a manager of the finance department of a factory contemplating the behavior of the workers contribute anymore to the class struggle than simply doing nothing? their job contributes to the bourgeoisie's advancement in the class struggle.

Beeth, would you be okay with the workers in that factory going on a prolonged strike that could possibly lead the company to default on the loans it has taken out and such? would you be okay if the workers in that factory decided to occupy and trash your department's office? would you support their call to remove you from your own position and manage it themselves?

[Beeth]

wtf are you talking about bro, I never knew I was ultraleft but okay. i dont understand how you can frame the discussion as such, I'm just noting Beeth's approach to workers as if he's some television host observing wildlife to be telling of his objective class position. How does being a manager of the finance department of a factory contemplating the behavior of the workers contribute anymore to the class struggle than simply doing nothing? their job contributes to the bourgeoisie's advancement in the class struggle.

Beeth, would you be okay with the workers in that factory going on a prolonged strike that could possibly lead the company to default on the loans it has taken out and such? would you be okay if the workers in that factory decided to occupy and trash your department's office? would you support their call to remove you from your own position and manage it themselves?

How old are you?

[blake 3:17]

How old are you?

lol -- seriously. The age around here is very young.

I'm an old fogey (in my late 30s) -- I've actually been on strike and been a picket captain! More than 10 years ago -- And many of my comrades have even applied for managerial positions! One of my oldest anarchist buddies is going to become a manager at a very large public institution -- he'll be replacing a Trotskyist in the same position, so....

[L.A.P.]

idk, since Beeth made that "my friends think workers are rude, do the lower classes deserve sympathy" thread I thought the user kind of had an iffy attitude towards workers. I didn't mean bourgeois but petty bourgeois, and I know that being a manager doesn't inherently make one a sworn class enemy. Actively trying to agitate workers even when you're manager is definitely better than doing nothing, but I don't think contemplating their behavior with 'fascination' is the same thing as seriously engaging them.

eh, maybe I am just being an 18 year old ass. Beeth, I hope you actually do succeed in spreading consciousness.

[#FF0000]

I was actually making a general observation about how workers fail to notice the elephant in the room - namely the huge gap between themselves and the skilled/management folks. the whole system is taken for granted as though it were normal. This is something I am observing first hand, directly, which is why I made this thread. Just stressing that being a class-conscious worker is not all that easy or common.

I'm sure they're aware of it. At every temp job, we're all very aware of how we do the same job as everyone else, for less pay.

But what are they/we gonna do?

[Ele'ill]

the 'lol how old r u' rebuttals on this forum are nothing more than a tool for coercing people to fit into some rigid ideological framework of one type or another

[Beeth]

the 'lol how old r u' rebuttals on this forum are nothing more than a tool for coercing people to fit into some rigid ideological framework of one type or another

Age is relevant because experience is relevant. Mere ideas and theories acquired from books and websites is no substitute for actual real-world experience. And this experience is not gained in a day, it takes years and perhaps decades. that's why the age factor cannot be ignored.

[#FF0000]

Age is relevant because experience is relevant. Mere ideas and theories acquired from books and websites is no substitute for actual real-world experience. And this experience is not gained in a day, it takes years and perhaps decades. that's why the age factor cannot be ignored.

I find that a lot of older people I meet have absolutely no clue what they're talking about when it comes to how things work today, especially when it comes to college and joining the workforce in 2013.

Turns out age and experience doesn't matter for much when people just assume wisdom comes with age and that makes their dumb long-nurtured prejudices and ideas relevant no matter how out-of-touch they are just because they managed to keep breathing for forty years.

[Rafiq]

Surprise surprise, Beeth the reactionaries political views are a direct reflection of his class background. Shocking.

[Beeth]

I find that a lot of older people I meet have absolutely no clue what they're talking about when it comes to how things work today, especially when it comes to college and joining the workforce in 2013.

Turns out age and experience doesn't matter for much when people just assume wisdom comes with age and that makes their dumb long-nurtured prejudices and ideas relevant no matter how out-of-touch they are just because they managed to keep breathing for forty years.

I am not saying anyone who is old is automatically wise. But wisdom (as opposed to mere theoretical knowledge) does come with a lot of experience in the real world. This does translate to age.

Let us face it: there is a 15yo kid living in the comfort of his parents' home, waxing lyrical on marxism just because he has read a book or two on it. Then you have a 40yo with a lot of experience working in factory, organizing unions, alerting his fellow workers. No matter how brilliant the kid is, his brilliance is no substitute for the experience that the 40yo has gained in the real world.

So yes, there may be clueless 'oldies' and very aware young people, but it does not alter the fact that age reflects the time you have spent in this world, experiencing the various facets of life, understanding and acting upon it.

[Ele'ill]

But wisdom does come with a lot of experience in the real world. This does translate to age.

no, it translates to experience which you literally just said

[Beeth]

no, it translates to experience which you literally just said

And you gain all those experiences in two minutes? No, it takes a lot of time - which means you will be older by the time you've accumulated a lot of experience and wisdom.

EDIT:

Please start a new thread because this thread is about a different subject matter altogether.

[#FF0000]

which means you will be older by the time you've accumulated a lot of experience and wisdom.

Maybe one has. That is a big maybe. That is the point.

[Beeth]

Another thing I notice is that ONLY unskilled workers do namaz (muslim prayers). Skilled workers/managers could not care less, again showing how right Marx was reg. religion. Only the masses/poor tenaciously follow it even when their personal and financial condition undergo zero change. Money for the rich, religion for the poor. Reminds me of a Bernard Shaw play.

[#FF0000]

ymmv on that. I've had bosses and managers who are extremely religious. There are a lot of deeply religious ultra-rich folks in America as well.

[Brutus]

Stop using the 'prolier than thou' argument against Beeth.
Do you receive profits from your father's business, Engels? That's bourgeois as fuck brah.

[Beeth]

ymmv on that. I've had bosses and managers who are extremely religious. There are a lot of deeply religious ultra-rich folks in America as well.

I am talking about Bangladesh here. The rich/skilled, whether actually religious, do NOT show it by doing namaz or any other ritual. But the poor/unskilled are more open about it.

[Skyhilist]

Sit on your arse and do nothing all day. That is, after all, what the ultraleft does, and when anyone dares to do something else, they get upset and call them bourgeois

I thought any form of stereotyping was discouraged on this site.

[blake 3:17]

**could let the dude talk about what's going on rather than whether he's a total asshole**

just speakin as a user not a mod but kinda tempted to start moderating